Flash builder why??? instead of flash professional IDE

[codeBeastAdobe]

Sorry if I sound ignorant but most developers and companies have said it is nonsense to use flash professional IDE instewad of flash builder.

I am totally ignorant and thought that flash builder was FLEX - ie: I have no idea of how to program in flex - I can only code in AS3. I am off track here. What is the advantage of flash builder? ALL the tutorials I read are on flash and almost never on flash builder - Am I getting confused? Id flash builder like an environment for coding in AS3 but adding a lot of functionality to mnake it all easier - ie: no difference in coding or the swf produced etc...

[birnerseff]

while flash builder is commonly associated with flex, it c

an also help with actionscript-only projects

[Guest]

I think Flash Builder and Flex are more for web applications whereas Flash is more animations and graphics.

you still do your programming with actionscript, but Flex just takes the hassle out of building the UI by using MXML to layout views.

<s:HGroup  x="10" y="10" >

     <s:Label text="Username"/>

     <s:TextInput id="usernameInput" prompt="Input username"/>

</s:HGroup> 

that can be done with just AS but its a lot simpler to read and write using mxml, which also has data binding, state control, transition effects.

if you are a designer and need graphics, timeline, animations etc then stick with flash

if you are a developer and want easy prebuilt components so you can concentrate on coding then go for Flash Builder and Flex.

[Andrei1-bKoviI · Accepted solution]

In addition to what other guys said, Flex Builder (now it is named Flash Builder), Flash IDE, FlashDevelop, FDT and other programs are just development environments that come with some additional perks. The output is the same - swf that is not different at the core no matter what environment you use.

Conceptually you can write code in a notepad, point swf compiler to it  and you will get swf.

Although Flash IDE has improved over time as a development tool - it is not a match to more sophisticated environments like Flash Builder, FlashDevelop or FDT. Note that other than Flash IDE environments are based on programs that are used by developers in other languages like Java. For instance Flash Builder is based on Eclipse. This is telling because for many reasons Flash IDE cannot live up to what more robust platforms evolved into. Unlike other tools and frameworks it is very hard (sometimes simply impossible) to accommodate Flash IDE for industrial strength development. Deployment and version control are the major headaches in Flash IDE.

Flex is just a library that is developed on a top of AS3 the same as you build your own classes (this is statement is 95% true). Of course, as mentioned, there is an additional xml-based way to develop Flex application but at the end it all is translated into AS3 and compiled. So, Flex application in essence is just a Flash application (and word Flash here is used as a name of technology at large).

If you hesitate over what to accept as a main tool, you should remember that Flash IDE is a legacy tool that Adobe inherited from Macromedia. With introduction of Flex/Flash Builder Adobe clearly demonstrated a commitment to a more enterprise oriented technology. Latest Flash Builder version comes with an attempt to integrate Flash IDE into workflow. Basically, the only step left is to somehow slip timeline development environment into Flash Builder and let Flash IDE die. This is my personal opinion though.

In addition, Adobe is trying hard to integrate their products into one framework/suite so that graphics are developed where they are more native (Illustrator, PhotoShop, etc.) and export them into Flash format and programming tasks are accomplished in Flash Builder. This is called Adobe Catalyst.

I have a notion that Adobe is generally very eager to kill Flash IDE. The only thing that stops them is, perhaps, they don't want to piss off already agitated crowd of designers who are reluctant to embrace OOP.

The point is that in conjunction with the fact that Flash IDE is natively a very inconvenient tool to use for true OOP development, I would recommend to anyone to move away from Flash IDE toward something more sophisticated.

Granted, it is sometimes necessary to use timeline for creating graphics but with the advent of physics and 3D libraries - timeline starting to look more and more lame even for animations.

In my view there are practically no redeeming qualities in Flash IDE at this point.

[codeBeastAdobe]

Thanks for that extensive reply.

I only have some questions then

a) You mention mxml - but I don't HAVE to use it at the moment if I don't want to do I? ie: I can carry on using AS3 and even import all my .fla files into flez builder and all my existing programs will work the same.

b) You say version control - what do you mean?

c) And all my graphical UI's - how do I import them - ie: Is there a graphics side to flash builder

[Andrei1-bKoviI]

"a) You mention mxml - but I don't HAVE to use it at the moment if I don't want to do I? ie: I can carry on using AS3 and even import all my .fla files into flez builder and all my existing programs will work the same."

No, you don't have to use mxml at all. You can continue using your classes by writing them and compiling application in Flash Builder. You may never need to use mxml at all.

FLAs are a bit different story. You cannot edit FLA's grapics and timeline code in Flash Builder - you will still have to use Flash IDE for these tasks.

"b) You say version control - what do you mean?"

Version control is a tool/work flow that keeps track of application changes. In a simplistic way - it is a software that you tell to monitor particular files/folders. Basically it is a database of history of development. in other words, you don't loose your work and, say, even if someone screws up code badly - you can always go back and reinstate code at any point. But, again, this is a bit too simplistic.

Version control allows to keep changes history of not only text files but also binaries (swfs, images, etc.)

Another important and very convenient aspect of version control framework is code distribution from a central location

There are many free tools to do that. One of the most popular at the moment is SVN.

As far as Flash Builder is concerned - it has native mechnism to hook your application with version control software.

"c) And all my graphical UI's - how do I import them - ie: Is there a graphics side to flash builder"

No, there is no graphics side per se (as it shouldn't). But Flex SDK/compiler has more features that allow you to pull graphics (and other MIME types) into application at compilation.

I know it is confusing but, again, when you use Flex SDK - you don't have to use mxml. SDK is just a library of classes/packages.

[codeBeastAdobe]

So just one question left re: flash builder - I have been reading about it more and more and

a) It's free - so that saves money already

b) According to what I read they say it is better than flash IDE because it does the same and more

is that right???

[Andrei1-bKoviI]

No, Flash Builder is not free - it is as expensive as Flash IDE. But it is way better.

Flex framework is free.

If you want a good free development environment - try FlashDevelop. I personally prefer FlashDevelop over Flash Builder.

[codeBeastAdobe]

Oh sorry!!! - It's the Saturday thing and I got the family (3 young girls shouting around me going on)

I meant to say flash develop not builder.

So I get all the same things as flash IDE and more besides? Well, who is the fool that continues with flash IDE - me I suppose for the moment.

You see I'm scared or should I say cautious. I have a virtual world developed in flash which cost a few dollars (did I say just a few) - and quite a few games which didn't cost peanuts. More to the point I am using the whole virtual world as an elearning platform in schools and hope to scale it to school networks ie: go from being small to a medium size company and then taking on China (ok maybe not).

I can't help but think that if I change platforms or at least dev environment -. something will go wrong and SCREW me big time.

It's a play safe thing - hey it works for the moment and I know where things can go wrong.

If you tell me it's exactly the same - don't worry about anything (I would need a signed disclaimer (lol)) then I have one month of "holiday" left and would be willing to test.

[Andrei1-bKoviI]

FlashDevelop can handle Flash IDE projects. But you still will have to edit graphics on timeline in Flash IDE. Also, is any code is written on timeline - you cannot edit this code outside Flash IDE. But all the code (like classes) that resides outside Flash IDE will be safe if you switch to FlashDevelop.

Also, you canot compile Flash IDE timline based application with any other compiler but the one that is in Flash IDE. But if you have an application that is totally independent of Flash IDE - you will be able to compile it using Flex SDK and its compiler in which case you don;t need Flash IDE at all.

As I said, you can use notepad to edit code and it will work. Writing code in FlasDevelop will shorten you development efforts dramatically.

"Well, who is the fool that continues with flash IDE"

I wouldn't be that harsh even though i don't like to do anything in Flash IDE. Sometimes it is necessary to use it to make complex vector graphics. By the way, unless one knows Illustrator very well, Flash IDE vector graphics tool appears more convenient and they are easier to optimize than in Illustrator.

Also, not all of us can easy imagine something and draw it with AS3 drawing API. So, Flash IDE can be a good tool for prototyping.

And, of course, if animation is difficult to describe mathematically, it is just faster to create a MovieClip an use it as is.

In any case, as you have discovered, perhaps the only extend of using Flash IDE is to create graphics RSL. The rest of code can be written and compiled outside Flash IDE.

This is not mention, of course, that some people use Flash to create animated movies which is not possible to do with code. For example (I am not sure what these guys use now) TV show South Park was developed in Flash for at least some time.

[codeBeastAdobe]

Exellent answer as usual - you must be a damn fast typer.

I am in the elearning business (well teaching but moving into interactive multimedia). Graphics are of the essence - I don't work in a bank so the UI must be highly graphical and all my activities are highly animated so it looks like that part is essentially a flash IDE thing. The virtual world and cms and programming things like the data class and other specific classes would be nice in another environment.

Would you permit me an insight into your mindset ie: your motivation. I shold explain my curiosity. You spemd a large amount of time with very detailed technical explanations with no apparent gain. So is your motivation the universal sharing of knowledge or the pleasure derived from helping people?

What I mean to say is that your time can be priced at a very handsome figure but you decide to give your time free. Or is this your so called down time ie: Nobody wants to work 24 hours. My brother is a freelancer commanding nice sums but he would never work more than his 8 - 10 hours.

The reason I ask is what motivates you more than anything. Would a villa instead of a flat motivate you. Would a share in a business motivate you? Would a share in a business that gave you a return of 300 dollars an hour motivate you? Would being an innovator of a market breaking product motivate you?

There is method in my madness. I only hope I am not getting too personal.

Please don't answer if all this is too personal - My curiosity demands that I at least ask even at the risk of alienation.

[Andrei1-bKoviI]

Hmm... How much time do you have to read my detailed response? 🙂

I guess one of the reasons I do that here is that it is my outlet away from my work/project routine. It gets me into a different realm but not as far as I loose connection to AS/Flash development and I still stay focused.

Some people play games. I get bored very fast by games. Games serve no purpose to me. You could say this is my gaming self except I prefer solving logical and math problems rather than shooting targets. There is a purpose in sharing that I like.

Please don't take me wrong - I have nothing against playing games. Games just don't resonate in me.

Also, I have been always fascinated by ideas and passions no matter if it is philosophy, physics, biology or programming.

There is, so to speak, mission statement here too. I am pretty cynical about things that are presented by others as something outside of this world and something requires this mystical powers. I skeptical about about any suggestion of unattainability. I am not saying things are easy but difficulties do not originate in subjects or objectives - they are mostly on a personal level. In my "world", for example, it is very easy to make money if money is what motivates one. Some people are just ruthless and immoral, some are tenacious.

To translate it to programming, I went through a lenghty period of ignorance, fear, and uncertainty. Now I know that it is very simple. As a matter of my perspective - boringly, stupidly simple. This is genious of OOP languages - a couple of very straightforward concepts derived from reality lead to amazing results.

I realize that the previous paragraph can (and will) be perceived as a manifestation of cockiness but if someone exercises a bit of courage to assume that there is truth in it - this someone can stop assuming that there is more to OOP than it meant to be and start thinking in terms of concepts.

My point is that I hope that some of my posts lead to this kind of revelations. It is not about my skills and knowledge. It is about the fact that things can be donw easy because AS3 allows for it. If people learned how to read AS3 documentation - this forum will be Sahara desert with two posts a week. So, on a personal level this is what gives me satisfaction.

Do money motivate me? They sure do. But I have very hard time to stay focused if I don't believe in what I am doing. Oddly enough I would rather charge less for doing interesting and right things than for doing inefficient and sub par things. Aphoristically speaking, in order for someone to hire me to clean toilet, he will have to pay be 5 time more than to hire me to write an interesting application.

Going back to ideas. For instance, what you are doing motivates me because, again, there is a purpose and passion in it. In addition I perceive you as a person who is motivated to explore all possibilities and use newly acquired knowledge to achieve larger noble goals. This does motivate me - so I am happy to be a part of it. People on this forum come with different agendas - so they get proportionate and fair responses not from me only.

"What I mean to say is that your time can be priced at a very handsome figure but you decide to give your time free."

I am yet to meet a person who is really good at anything and who doesn't have an outlet for sharing his/her experience. After all it would be biological deficiency otherwise. One of the aspects of the animal named human being that allowed for thriving our species is a genetically programmed drive to share. All species do that, as a matter of fact. It is an extension of the procreation instinct.

I am not going to start name dropping here but I personally know a few famous and wealthy people who will push you off if you ask them for a free help and redirect you to their agents, personal assistants, and lawyers. But once you get to know them you will witness how much free help they offer to what they perceived as their natural social environment.

As far as this forum is concerned - we are doing something that is called information technology. It is unimaginable to see this area to grow without free reciprocation in terms of both money and personal will. For the same token, it is unconceivable to achieve a personal growth by putting a single aspect (including money) as a sole motivator.

"The reason I ask is what motivates you more than anything. Would a villa  instead of a flat motivate you. Would a share in a business motivate  you? Would a share in a business that gave you a return of 300 dollars  an hour motivate you? Would being an innovator of a market breaking  product motivate you?"

I like cozy places 🙂 I am a creature of comfort.

Share in a well run business that has a solid idea will definitely motivate me. As an extension - innovative product would definitely make my wheels spin faster.

300 dollars - I answered this with the toilet analogy 🙂

[codeBeastAdobe]

Hi - Luckily my toilets are clean as my wife thinks that "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" so I won't be asking you to clean my toilets at not for 300 dollars an hour although that seems like a good market price (lol)

No - I haven't got a lot of free time I work/play (however you see it) 7 days a week. I AM on a mission. I knew you were "driven" my personal beliefs but I had to ask you directly as to what motivated you. I was pleasantly surprised as to you depth of openess.

I totally agree with you all your philosophies and would add to them.

With regards money - I have been offered a lot of money in the past (as a salesman in Egland) to do the most outrageous things and turned then down.

My personal motivation is to

a) Be the premier English teaching organization in Spain (then Europe) - (China can wait)

b) Create a multimedia virtual world elearning platform - that breaks all the boundaries - We already use a very simple visual basic platform and have produced amazing results - you won't know but we have taken young kids to the Cambridge exams at a really early age beating all the competition ie: Spain's biggest companies and all through a basic application all done through visual basic - ie: database driven questions and higscores etc... Flash was also integrated in AS2 to give it more UMPH. That badly designed app has been going for 15 years.

To cut the crap:

Life is about stimulation: Kids and family bring love and a hundred other emotions, helping people, educating them, playing sports with its adrenalin rush and sense of achievement etc...

Some people play sudoku, crosswords, run marathons, sail the oceans, watch TV (OMG), etc...

You guys solve problems on a forum - I told my wife that it must be fun for somebody - she does crosswords and stuff - I got her into programming the other day and now she demands that I look after the kids while she codes a game - JESUS! - Coding stimulates your brain big time.

You're right Bill Gates and Warren Buffet see like hard men but then they are going to gie all their fortune to charity WOW. Now that's amazing. I won't be giving my money to charity but I do give free classes to kids whose parents have lost their jobs and that's all I can do for the moment.

THE BIG PICTURE

1) There is nothing like what I do in Spain - there are no academies teaching English using ongoing interactive multimedia.

2) The market: Is massive: I have deployed my first virtual world designed by Kglad (he of the forum) and my activities have gone down really well

    I have contacts with school networks so as soon as I have tested this will be taken to them etc... and bespoke projects made.

Anecdote: My brothers and friends are in IT that's how I started (obviously as a newbie) - they hate their jobs - SHIT - why's that? Big orgs and banks don't give a shit about creativity or even personal growth - just do the f****** job. They are so depressed. That to me is not creativity - one of our most endearing qualities is our ability to create new things to innovate,

People do not understand psychology - they do not know why they exist or what motivates then medium term - we all know short term - booze, girls, quick fixxes etc... but what takes it to a new level - CREATE and help develop . it's human nature eg: we create children we procreate - anything that creates agrees with our DNA therefore feels good - My daughters draw something and HAVE to show me - they are creating and therefore feel bett for it.

So - back to the girls - I hear my wife calling - after all that's what it's all about. I usually try and develop at night while the family are sleeping - I'm lucky and very nervous I seem to sleep for 6 hours. ie: 2 in the morning to 8.

I hope to get yo uintereted in this project - which will be to be the major elearning English teaching provider in Spain -. there are also so many sub projects attached.

My daughter can read already: She's 5 - You say that's normal - I know - the funny thing is that in her school she hasn't been taught - she has taught herself

via the kids name badges etc...

She does mental maths that is uncommon in kids a few years older - that's actually my doing - I teach her mental maths always.

Etc... We shall speak - no more long mails from tomorrow as I am busy creating a "Global multimedia teaching Empire"

JESUS CHRIST - who remebers their schooling? - How boring were your teachers - Give a kid a computer and they tell their teacher to F*** off.

That's what we have been doing for a few years now.

That reputaion and knowledge must be turned into a scalable business and a World changinf phenomenon.

Google formed in their garage and took on EVERYBODY - Microsoft crapped on IBM etc... It's all about solid convictions, great people with great ideas and above all excellent execution + a splatter of lovely advertising and a dab of marketing topped off with a nice dose of salesmanship.

Laters and glad somebody is on the same wavelength - ie: Let's make the world a better place (oH!!! sounds like a Michael Jackson song)

[Andrei1-bKoviI]

I do agree with all you said.

I am not surprised at all that your children advance so well. It feels just natural given what you and your wife are after.

I just would like to validate your take on the education market with a story where I was personally involved briefly.

A year ago I was involved with a huge publishing company here in New York (I will not take this lord's name in vain for the sake of my own comfort).

Anyway, one of their big, hundred-million dollar businesses is e-learning division. Basically, they supplement their college books with online courses they sell. They outsource development of these courses to other companies or buy already developed things outright.

This was 2010, right? You cannot imagine how bad an infrastructure they have. Not to mention the fact that it takes forever for them to get simple software like Flash gently forcing you to use trial versions (remember millions of dollars I mentioned above), they host a high school computer boot camp course quality database and ways to deal with information, development and deployment. I was working on a project which was basically just trying to make sense out of a learning course that an outsider guy developed and sold to them as something that only genius could possibly sculpture. It felt like a scam on this guy's behalf. Unless, of course, he lived under an impression that pictures on computer monitor are cooked in microwave oven along with a bloated sense of self-importance and "can do no wrong" attitude. I must admit, nevertheless, that there was quite a bit of expertise in the science it covered. Whichever way, it was a messy pile of hardly organized FLAs consuming low quality code, lame graphics and badly produced videos scattered like ashes over Ganges river with a touch of Flex garnished with parsley and burnt in lard minced garlic. Yes, as you can imagine, I was literally running along Ganges trying to get ashes into the urn with a colander and toothbrush.

Although corporations are notorious for being totally clueless about what they are paying for, this was something utterly ridiculous. A very strange thing was that some of the management seemingly did understand what was going on but were totally paralyzed or afraid to go against status quo.

I liked some people there though on both personal and professional levels. Too bad they got stuck with myopic executives.

For now just try to believe me - I will hopefully tell amazing stories about this place in private. I ran from there the first millisecond I could while laughing my s*** out in the middle of 5th avenue thanking heavens that it wasn't a long term commitment! I literally had to stop at a designer boutique on Madison Avenue to change my pants and Calvin Klein underwear (sales person was very understanding and I don't regret the cost of merchandize - they served me well on my next interview).

I had another short lived encounter with one more publishing house shortly after (why are they all houses, do you know?). I am not going into details. It was a huge unruly Flash blob developed in Bulgaria that this e-learning corporation hoped to tame in a week by paying $10,000 to any taker. Thank God I knew better and bailed out within 48 hours as soon as I had a chance to observed splash page and opened their FLA. The funnies part was when the agent who hooked me up with these jerks told me that she would fly to New York and shoot me if I refused.

My point is that there is a humongous, perhaps multibillion-dollar, untapped market for e-learning platforms and client side software. Note - not just market for particular disciplines like language, biology, math, etc. but for a well designed infrastructure that can accommodate education methodologies in the first place. And there is a huge deficiency in professional resources - people like you who not only know what they are doing but also strive to understand technology and organically morph it into education process.

I am not saying I know e-learning industry inside out - after all it was just a brief humorous affair on a used beach towel. I am just saying that based on the fact that such joint as this publishing house with unlimited financial resources cannot make path around small pond and doesn't even have a clue what kind of people they need to hire, let alone understanding of available tools, I am deducing that they are not the only one whose brains are dislodged. Or, maybe (if I feel like giving them benefit of the doubt), there are very few people who do what you do and the likes of this publisher have no choice but retain mediocrity and pay for crap.

So, I am happy you found the right venue and are getting recognition. It seems you are one of the pioneers which positions you well to, first, do exciting things and, second, handsomely monetize on it.

I do believe, perhaps oddly enough because of my experience with this company, that developing e-learning application is a very rewarding venture on every level, especially because it has very well defined noble purpose. I would place it above game development although I do think that game development requires a top-notch programming and software architecture expertise unlike any other area of computer related businesses. I think I understood what it takes to create a well rounded e-learning platform. I even entertained an idea of developing one myself - other exciting things got on the way tough.

And don't start me on Microsoft. This is one of the artifacts where excellence has no place whatsoever. Only now they started to put their s*** together. But I will never forgive them for VisualBasic 🙂

[codeBeastAdobe]

Hi - I was away yesterday. I had a laugh reading your anecdotes. It's a great insight to read what you said about the companies. An outsider would think that was impossible. They seem like a chicken with it's head chooped off. Right, I'm back to the grind this week. Just completed a nice platform, Super Mario type game with my quizzes integrated - I just stop the main game loop - do the quiz and kid goes back to the platform where I stsrt the main game loop again. Simple and so much fun for the kids. I practise on my own kids as I am not in schools till September. Simple yet so powerfully engaging to the kids.

Had a look at the "citrus engine" the other day and looks great. It's a framework for handling Box2D and the whole platform is already set up. I will investiagte.

Have a good "innovating" week.

Gerry

[Kenneth Kawamoto]

Just to set the record straight:

If you hesitate over what to accept as a main tool, you should remember that Flash IDE is a legacy tool that Adobe inherited from Macromedia. With introduction of Flex/Flash Builder Adobe clearly demonstrated a commitment to a more enterprise oriented technology.

Flex was Macromedia product, not something introduced by Adobe after the acquisition

[Andrei1-bKoviI]

"Flex was Macromedia product, not something introduced by Adobe after the acquisition"

Right, but Flex (now Flash) Builder was Adobe Product from the beginning when they opened up Flex SDK.