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Not allowed to use Flash anymore?

Community Beginner ,
May 11, 2019

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Ever since Flash became Animate a few years ago, I've been using Flash (v15.0) for drawing because I find the new (well, 3-year-old) brush algorythm in several ways inferior to the old one. I create my figures in Flash and copy-paste them into Animate where I make the animation. This setup is far from ideal but I've been able to make it work - while always hoping that one day Animate's brush will receive a (imo) much needed improvement. This hasn't happened so far but I never lost hope...

Yesterday I got an email from Adobe saying that they have discontinued the support for Flash v15.0: You can't download and install it anymore and - wait for it! - should you already have it installed (like I do), you're no longer licenced to use it. That's right, you are NOT ALLOWED to use it anymore. If you do "you may be at risk of potential claims of infringement by third parties."

Seriously? It's one thing that you don't offer old versions anymore but to PROHIBIT the use of existing copies just blows my mind.

Every part of my body is dreading the idea of looking for another animation software - I just don't have the time to test and learn their features plus I like my sub package with Premiere and After Affects and Photoshop and all but you are literally (or metaphorically) pushing me away with your move. You are taking away a software I use and are not providing a better alternative while expecting me to continue paying.

And yes, it's debatable whether or not the Animate brush is better or worse than the Flash version - it may just be up to personal preference (although, reading the forums, I'm far from alone with my opinion). But at least up till now there has been an option to choose. A rather uncomfortable option (working in 2 apps simultanously) but and option regardless. Which you are taking away now.

This is a serious downgrade for me. Possibly a dealbreaker if I manage to find an alternative.

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Not allowed to use Flash anymore?

Community Beginner ,
May 11, 2019

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Ever since Flash became Animate a few years ago, I've been using Flash (v15.0) for drawing because I find the new (well, 3-year-old) brush algorythm in several ways inferior to the old one. I create my figures in Flash and copy-paste them into Animate where I make the animation. This setup is far from ideal but I've been able to make it work - while always hoping that one day Animate's brush will receive a (imo) much needed improvement. This hasn't happened so far but I never lost hope...

Yesterday I got an email from Adobe saying that they have discontinued the support for Flash v15.0: You can't download and install it anymore and - wait for it! - should you already have it installed (like I do), you're no longer licenced to use it. That's right, you are NOT ALLOWED to use it anymore. If you do "you may be at risk of potential claims of infringement by third parties."

Seriously? It's one thing that you don't offer old versions anymore but to PROHIBIT the use of existing copies just blows my mind.

Every part of my body is dreading the idea of looking for another animation software - I just don't have the time to test and learn their features plus I like my sub package with Premiere and After Affects and Photoshop and all but you are literally (or metaphorically) pushing me away with your move. You are taking away a software I use and are not providing a better alternative while expecting me to continue paying.

And yes, it's debatable whether or not the Animate brush is better or worse than the Flash version - it may just be up to personal preference (although, reading the forums, I'm far from alone with my opinion). But at least up till now there has been an option to choose. A rather uncomfortable option (working in 2 apps simultanously) but and option regardless. Which you are taking away now.

This is a serious downgrade for me. Possibly a dealbreaker if I manage to find an alternative.

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May 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2019

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you can keep using it.  and adobe's allowing licensed user that have registered with adobe to even download older adobe programs.

the lawyers are letting you know that new(er) laws (esp from the eu) are putting increasing limits on everyone that does business on the internet (esp in the eu).  adobe wants you to know the legal landscape for software makers is changing but you can relax unless you're concerned about 3rd parties, eg the eu.

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May 11, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 11, 2019

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Well, the older versions available for download in the CC app are 18.0 and higher. Flash is 15.0

And here's what the email said:

"We have recently discontinued certain older versions of Creative Cloud applications and as a result, under the terms of our agreement, you are no longer licensed to use them. Our records show that you may be using the following version(s) of these applications:

ANIMATE:15.0

Please be aware that should you continue to use the discontinued version(s), you may be at risk of potential claims of infringement by third parties."

Since English isn't my mother tongue, I might have misinterpreted the last sentence, in which case I'm a bit confused as to what it actually means. What I do know, however, is that installing Flash is not an option anymore. (Unless there's an alternative source outside the CC app.)

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May 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2019

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if you purchased from and registered with adobe, check https://helpx.adobe.com/in/download-install/kb/downloaded-older-app.html  for info on how to download non-current adobe programs.

once you download, if you're having trouble finding your file(s), https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/global/find-downloaded-file-app.html

if that fails AND you've (a) registered your software with adobe or (b) can provide proof of purchase, using a browser that allows popups and cookies, contact adobe support during pst business hours by clicking here and, when available, click 'chat', https://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html

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May 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2019

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p.s.  can you copy and paste the entire email adobe sent you?

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May 11, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 11, 2019

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Here it is (simple text, links removed):

"Dear Valued Customer, 

  At Adobe, we always strive to deliver more value to our customers, including much requested new features and capabilities, critical bug fixes and security updates. For these reasons we recommend all customers use the latest release of our Creative Cloud applications. 

  We have recently discontinued certain older versions of Creative Cloud applications and as a result, under the terms of our agreement, you are no longer licensed to use them. Our records show that you may be using the following version(s) of these applications. 

  ANIMATE:15.0 

  Please be aware that should you continue to use the discontinued version(s), you may be at risk of potential claims of infringement by third parties. 

  Please upgrade to the latest version(s) using the instructions below. By upgrading, you will continue to receive all the value that Creative Cloud has to offer. 

  Here’s what to do next:

For the simplest experience, download and install the latest version of the applications listed above using the Creative Cloud Desktop application

If you do not have the Creative Cloud Desktop application, you can download and install it here.

For detailed instructions on how to use the Creative Cloud Desktop application, click here.

You can also download and install these applications (after signing in) from Adobe.com here.

  Should you have any difficulties, Adobe’s Customer Support organisation is available to answer any questions about upgrading your Creative Cloud software. Please contact them here. Finally, we apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you in advance for your cooperation. 

  Regards,

The Adobe Team"

Thank you for your effort to help!

It should be noted that I do have the latest functioning Animate installed but Flash is also there - installed via the CC app when it was still possible.

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May 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2019

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thank you for that email.

i have flash cs6 (v.12), animate 2015.2 (v 15.2), animate 2018 (v. 18) and animate 2019.2 (v 19.2) installed and haven't received the email yet.  but i just checked my account and see no links to older versions so i would need to contact support if i needed to install on a new computer.

if you do contact support for that link, ask for a link to every version of every program that you might reasonably need in the future. and once you download an installer, secure it for future use should the need arise (eg, a new computer), so you won't need to contact them again.

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May 11, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 11, 2019

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I use gmail and it put the message into promotions so it didn't show up in the primary inbox. Depending on what emailing app you use, your copy might be in the same place or perhaps buried somwhere in spam.

Regarding asking support for DL links -- I seriously doubt that if the company policy is "no old versions", then they're gonna hand out installers under the counter just because you politely ask.

I'm not an avid reader of the forums -- do you think it's realistic that a staff member will comment here, or should I ask support directly for clarification?

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May 11, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2019

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we've been repeatedly told support will give download links.  this is the spiel approved by adobe staff:

if you purchased from and registered with adobe, check https://helpx.adobe.com/in/download-install/kb/downloaded-older-app.html  for info on how to download non-current adobe programs.

once you download, if you're having trouble finding your file(s), https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/global/find-downloaded-file-app.html

if that fails AND you've (a) registered your software with adobe or (b) can provide proof of purchase, using a browser that allows popups and cookies, contact adobe support during pst business hours by clicking here and, when available, click 'chat', https://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html

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May 11, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 12, 2019

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Well, it appears that the spiel is changing.

I checked out the guide but at the part where there are supposed to be download links, I have nothing. The product is listed properly, but no links.

I'll try to squeeze more info out of support directly.

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May 12, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 13, 2019

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I contacted support and asked for clarification, and here's the summary:

The reason for discontinuing old versions is, and I quote:

"See the older versions when developed used old security matrix's and the latest virus or malwares can affect or breach them , that's why we want you to use the latest version so they use the latest security"

The discontinued versions will not be provided by Adobe anymore. You can't get them from the CC app, or from the download page or from support or from any official Adobe source. So if you, for some reason uninstall them, you can kiss them goodbye. If you buy a new computer or reinstall the operating system, you're also screwed.

That said, Adobe doesn't mind if you keep using them but they're not going to assist to it. (I specifically asked if it's LEGALLY okay to use them and they said yes.)

So that's where we are. Really, really sad.

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May 13, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 13, 2019

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did you ask for a download link to animate cc 2015 and its last update, or did you continue to incorrectly mention flash v.15?

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May 13, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 13, 2019

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I did not ask for download links - I inquired about the whole situation. I did mention the specific software, though, as Flash CC. Which is correct. (By the way, I don't know why you'd say Flash v15 is incorrect.)

Some highlights:

Customer care:

Creative Cloud individual customers can download only the two most recent major versions of Creative Cloud apps.  We no longer provide previous versions of these apps via the Creative Cloud Desktop app or on Adobe.com.

Me (a bit later):

I understand. So just be clear: if I, for some reason uninstall the discontinued old version, there will be no official means for me to reinstall it again?

Customer care:

Yes, correct. You wont be able to reinstall it.

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May 13, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 13, 2019

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adobe changed the name from flash cc 2015 to animate cc 2015.1 more than 3 years ago.  support personal most likely don't know that and think flash is the pre cc name (cs 6 and earlier).

anyway, they are supposed to provide download links, if requested and your license can be verified, to flash versions and animate versions.  because v.15 is a cc program, having a current cc subscription should be sufficient.  is your subscription current?

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May 13, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 13, 2019

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Yes, of course I have a current sub.

I appreciate that you're still trying to make it work, but there's no ambiguity anymore:

"Creative Cloud individual customers can download only the two most recent major versions of Creative Cloud apps. We no longer provide previous versions of these apps via the Creative Cloud Desktop app or on Adobe.com."

So hang on to that cs6 copy of yours, cause you don't get to download it anymore by the looks of it. (Maybe corporate customers do, not sure about that.)

Overall, this is a huge kick in the groin -- maybe they'll reverse it if enough people complain.

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May 13, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 13, 2019

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cs6 and earlier installation files are definitely (or as definite as one can be with adobe policies) supposed to be available to verifiable licensees.

it's cc apps that are causing some confusion, at least, for me.  i was under the impression older cc versions were available by direct download for users (with current subscriptions) that go through the trouble of contacting adobe support.  it's now looking more likely that i am mistaken and only perpetually licensees (cs6 and earlier) can get direct download links from adobe support.

addendum:  i was wrong with my first few posts in this thread.  only cs6 (and earlier) version downloads are available to licensees that can verify their license.  older than current and one older version cc apps are not available (except for indesign and a few other programs that don't include flash/animate).

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May 13, 2019 0
Guide ,
May 13, 2019

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They are again shooting themselves in the foot.

Not only CS6 and some of the older versions of Flash and Animate CC perform better and are preferred by many professional users, because of that, but not being able to access them will make trouble-shooting and bug-tracking much more difficult.

I don't care much about the rest of the Adobe suite, but in times when Animate's reputation is so damaged and they are trying to regain popularity and trust with the animation industry, this is an absolutely suicidal act and terrible PR.

The industry is conservative and is not only comprised of huge studios, but also individuals who freelance, making TV-commercials or work on TV-shows from home. A lot of money is at stake and deadlines have to always be matched.

No sane professional updates his tools on a whim or when some company decides to release an update, because the consequences can be disastrous.

Last two releases of Animate - 2018 and 2019 - have been the worst performing versions of Flash to date - crippled and laggy. They are not fit for production work, regardless of the hype about Advanced Layers, Parenting and so on. All these features were rushed out of the door too early and will probably need years to become production-ready.

Thank you, @zoltáns77848546 for bringing this very important information to our attention!

- Nick: Character designer and animator, Flash user since 1998
Member of Flanimate Power Tools team - extensions for character animation

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May 13, 2019 1
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 13, 2019

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Apologies for the confusion – even we longtimers are all trying to figure this out as it's happened...

See if this new article helps clarify what's going on:

Adobe Limits Software Version Downloads, Including Some Direct Links

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May 13, 2019 0
Explorer ,
May 13, 2019

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Last two releases of Animate - 2018 and 2019 - have been the worst performing versions of Flash to date - crippled and laggy. They are not fit for production work, regardless of the hype about Advanced Layers, Parenting and so on. All these features were rushed out of the door too early and will probably need years to become production-ready.

Is there any word on fixing the performance?

I have made complaints here and via email, I have seen many complaints on these forums + Stackoverflow, but I can't see any acknowledgement beyond the usual 'we will pass on your feedback' as nothing happens. As you yourself said (which I agree with) - 2018/19 perform terribly, so for them to make 2019 WORSE than 2018 indicates that it doesn't seem to be their priority in the least.

I wonder how they gauge the usefulness of their apps. Clearly they aren't using them in any meaningful way. I would have no issues switching to 2019 if they fixed the damn thing.

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May 13, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 14, 2019

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  írta

Apologies for the confusion – even we longtimers are all trying to figure this out as it's happened...

See if this new article helps clarify what's going on:

Adobe Limits Software Version Downloads, Including Some Direct Links

Thank you for this!

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May 14, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 14, 2019

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Very bad move!!!

Why is adobe so intent to annoy its customers by restricting access to older versions when people pay a monthly subscription which is pricey especially for freelancers and small businesses. How is this a good idea?

This would be like a restaurant removing their most famous dish to replace it by something people do not particularly like except in this case customers would go somewhere else. In the Adobe case people depend on other apps particularly PS, AI, EA, etc... so I guess Adobe counts on this to keep its revenue. We already went through the scraping of a great software (Edge Animate) for no apparent good reason besides promoting ANCC. Do we have now to be force to abandon something that works?

But seriously, what is the goal/reason behind this misguided move? Force people into software that is buggy? Does Adobe really think it is a great idea to antagonize the pros who are the backbone of the industry and the forums?

I understand the legal reasons but not everyone resides in the EU.

Adobe, it is time to enlighten us!!!

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May 14, 2019 2
Most Valuable Participant ,
May 14, 2019

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Well, check the article I posted above... It tries to explain what's happening and why. Not saying that will make you feel better, but hopefully it's at least a start. It sounds as if Adobe's hand may have been forced for legal reasons.

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May 14, 2019 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 14, 2019

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Yes I saw that! Does the EU govern the world now? Could not they apply different rules per region?

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May 14, 2019 0
Guide ,
May 14, 2019

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Well, one thing leads to another.

The CC model was set up so that customers can be abused in more than one way - forced to update; pay multiple times for the same thing, etc. etc. It was only a matter of time such a centralised system to be attacked. And the damage is again taken by the little cash-cows who will be milked more while receiving less.

- Nick: Character designer and animator, Flash user since 1998
Member of Flanimate Power Tools team - extensions for character animation

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May 14, 2019 2
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 11, 2019

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If Adobe is shoving all previous versions of Flash and Animate down the memory hole, that's extraordinarily bad. Without access to Flash CS6, it will be impossible to update old SWF content. And without access to Animate 2015, we'll be forced to use the current version, which is buggy and terrible.

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May 11, 2019 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 13, 2019

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According to Adobe's blog on this change, the "two most recent major versions" are all we're being granted access to anymore. This is a really bad, and to be frank, stupidly arrogant move on Adobe's part, considering that large development teams tend to standardize on known stable versions of their software for years at a time.

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May 13, 2019 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 14, 2019

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I really hope this isn't another patent troll situation, like the Eolas "click to activate" nonsense from almost a decade ago.

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May 14, 2019 0
Community Beginner ,
May 17, 2019

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So here's an article shedding some light on the issue.

It just makes the whole situation more infuriating - also, if it's true, the response I got back from Customer Care was half bullsh*t.

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May 17, 2019 0
Guide ,
May 17, 2019

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As far as I can tell, by releasing this statement, Adobe is indemnifying their users to prevent itself from being exposed to any further legal infringements caused by the use of older versions by their users.

So, in short, Adobe is protecting itself by exposing their users to potential legal action. It's rather naff and a bit of a slap in the face of their users.

In theory a user or company releasing an animation with an older version of Animate expose themselves to being sued, because some part of the software (probably the Dolby licensed parts) isn't covered by a proper license.

And if anyone thinks this wouldn't happen, think again: It is a similar situation as with SCO vs. Autozone.

I'd steer clear and well away from using ANY of the implicated older Adobe apps from now on for commercial work.

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May 17, 2019 0
ClayUUID LATEST
Adobe Community Professional ,
May 17, 2019

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Judging by Adobe's public response thus far, they seem to have absolutely no comprehension how badly their current course of action reflects on them. They're treating this like yanking some old games from Steam—oh well, big deal, buy the newest version—when in reality this is going to have a real disruptive economic impact on the companies who rely on them for their production process.

Well, to paraphrase Lily Tomlin, "We don't care. We don't have to. We're Adobe."

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May 17, 2019 1