The bone tool no longer in flash pro cc?

[edorse03]

The bone tool no longer in flash pro cc?

[Herbert2001]

Ah, such a shame. Really. I used to love to animate in Flash years ago, but I also made the switch to alternatives that DO support great 2d and 3d IK/FK bone systems for animation.

Even if the developers would amend the current Flash with nice bone animation tools, I am afraid that boat long sailed away, and almost no-one in animation will care any more. 99% of my colleagues and acquaintances working in 2d animation have switched to different tools years ago. 

That, and I feel Flash has been re-targeted at a very different market (indy games).

Really too bad. Flash could have been king in the animation market.

[Blaskotron]

Finally had a project with a figure to animate and the bone tool is gone, dammit.

[Herbert2001]

@Blaskotron: try AnimeStudio Pro - it has excellent bone tools, and a full graph editor. Then export to Flash.

Well, it's been more than four months, and still no bones/motion graph editor in sight?

[ChrisGeorgenes]

Hang in there a little longer. It may seem like it's never going to come but it could be seen as Adobe trying to hard to get it right by developing/testing/gathering feedback from beta testers.

[Herbert2001]

Why would we? In the meantime AnimeStudio Pro 9 and 10 came out in the last year with even more character rigging options, like squash and stretch bones, smart bones that can act like controller bones for animating parts of your character, better drawing tools, nice new bone constraints, true motion curves, independent angle constraint, smooth joints, auto-bones scaling, and much more.

At this point it is hard to believe any new bones tool in Flash can out-do such a well-developed bones system. And that is not even mentioning all the other animation features in tools like AS and ToonBoom.

http://anime.smithmicro.com/whats-new.html

[Asymetrical]

For what it's worth I have yet to see anything decently done using the bone tool in Flash or Anime Studio Pro. In fact I would argue I've never seen anytihng decent period made with Anime Studio Pro. The examples they have on thier site are not even close to broadcast quality. There is a TON of great stuff made with FlashGranted maybe it's just it's never been put in the right hands (which is what I suspect) Toonboom is a different story but I still don't think the bone tool is worth much.

[Herbert2001]

I would argue you have not looked in the right places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNzU-2CEOuE#t=24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjmMuMhRvFo

This is the studios's trailer for the film. It's been done in Anime Studio. Approximately 10 minutes of the film is Anime studio stuff.

And that was done in version 5.

But you are correct in stating that Flash has been used a lot for broadcast stuff - unfortunately Adobe allowed ToonBoom to dominate that market with their lackluster and even quite bad updates for the animation side of Flash.

Here's another one (BBC):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWih88lo8wI

One more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEwDKG0iMt0

[Asymetrical]

And I would argue back that while that trailer one in Egypt or wherever may have been DRAWN in Anime Studio Pro, I highly doubt there was much using of the bone tool in there.  It's all hand drawn. Maybe the horses legs? Yeah I could see that. You could do that same style in Flash, Toonboom OR Anime Studio Pro but drawing isn't what we were talking about here. We're talking about the Bone tool. The other examples really don't wow me at all not just if the bone tool was uded but even the animation is floaty and not very well animated which is exactly what I've seen everyone do with the Bone Tool in any program. Whether that means the right artists or animators haven't made use of it yet I don't know but nothing you've shown me here changes my mind. It's a cheat in my opinion and so far I have yet to see any examples that make me say anything other than good riddance.

[Herbert2001]

Well, that is your opinion - many other users were quite dismayed to discover that the bone tools were gone in Flash CC.

Also, this type of bone animation is often used by indie developers of games and indie animators, who do not have the luxury to hand-animate everything.

And be careful when you say "not very well animated which is exactly what I've seen everyone do with the Bone Tool in any program": just about all 3d character animation, in feature movies, broadcast, games, and otherwise, is done with bone-based tools (IK/FK). I suppose you meant 2d animation only?

Anyway, I feel it is downright liberating to see small studios like this one:

http://www.littlegreendog.com/movies/scareplane/scareplane.php

where bone-based 2d animation helped to create these small productions, which otherwise would have been impossible to create in terms of time, man power, and money.

I also have to add here that it is a bit of an elitist and ignorant attitude to state that a tool like the bone tool is a cheat. Artists throughout history have used all sorts of tools to make their creations possible: from Albrecht Durer with his perspective drawing apparatus and Van Gogh carrying his frame in a window to draw, to Johannes Vermeer with (probably) optics to catch the absolute colour tones in his works (see Tim's Vermeer documentary).

Just my two cents.

[Asymetrical]

Look I'm not trying to pick a fight here I'm, really not and PLEASE don't compare the bone tool to ANYTHING the great masters used. Please please please. Yes I am very well aware of bones used in 3d... I am also aware of it used in games and feature films and you're dreaming if you think anything you showed me could hold a candle to the 3d animation of Pixar and Dreamworks which is bone based too. Or any American or canadian based Flash show.

Am I elitist if I'm using Disney and Warner Bros animation as the benchmark? No I don't think so. I think more likely you need to upgrade what you consider quality. Every single thing you showed me except for the Egypt one looked like marionette puppets which is hardly good animation.

You can only call what I'm saying an opinion to a degree. Most of what you've shown me is marginal at best and would never make it on the air, at least in North America. Budget isn't a good enough excuse as far as I'm concerened. You can't say "Oh this is crap because we had a bad budget, but look how great it is for the 30 bucks we used to work on it!" That's a cop out. Animation is animation and you don't have less kinetic understanding because you're paid less. No, you hire less qualified people to DO the animation, that's what you do. I have worked on some pretty crappy animation in my day due to budget, so I understand what you're saying but least I will admit it's crap and not pretend it's awesome.

So yes you can indeed call me an elitist... but I'm far from ignorant. I've got 25 years in the animation industry in Los Angeles, two Emmy Awards, 6 nominations and have worked at every major television animation studio in the business. I wouldn't call that igorant but then again you're entitled to call it that because after all that would be an opinion and you're entitled to one. Even the award winning Angry Birds animation is blah really when you look at it. I seldom play Flash based games so I couldn't comment much on them but what I've seen is bland at best. If that's an elitist comment because I have an eye for quality, then so be it. Elitist I shall be. If I use that elistist attitude to support my theory that animation is good if it MOVES well, not if you can FINISH it, then yes I'm ignorant.

[Herbert2001]

Well, for what's it worth, I agree with you for the most part. And I did misunderstood some of your wording, reading back - so my apologies for using the word "ignorant".

And yes, let's not forget there is an astounding chunk of "Northern American" animation (mostly outsourced to cheap wages countries) that looks posiitively dreadful. I have friends working in the broadcast animation industry that complain about their limited resources, and they try to offset those by applying all sorts of tricks to speed up their workflow, including bone-based animation techniques (in combination with more traditional approaches).

It's quite different for (2d) games - the bar is set lower in general - although games like the original Earth Worm Jim games and the newest Rayman title sport some beautiful (cartoon) animation.

I was merely saying tools like Anime Studio Pro and the bone tools offer good animators a chance to animate things they would not have been able to before due to cost and time - and do it all by themselves in a short turn-around time.

Here is good example of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RcGC_ZN4DA

More of his work (including a stereo version with the fixed leg): http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9DE018C3FC9CADF7

One animator - and the entire animation is done in AS with the art drawn in Manga Studio. Not too bad for the bone tool. I believe the animation demo is part of the AS10 library for anyone to inspect. There are issues with it, of course, but overall I think the effect is quite nice to look at.

Btw, the bone tools in ASpro also allow for clever setups where the head of an character can be swivelled (up to a certain degree). And it can be combined with more traditional techniques, of course. And, of course, the bone tool is not some magical device that will improve your animation skills, obviously - it's just one tool that can be combined with many others to achieve animation.

[Asymetrical]

Okay yah now THAT was cool! the Stickman video was pretty well done too. I stand corrected. Doubtful you could have done that with the Flash bone tool though but maybe I'm worng! No worries on the ignorant thing... I was having a bay day when i responded anyway so I might have overeacted. Anyway, thanks for showing me that clip... gotta share that!

[Kamii Akbari]

4th april 2015, still waiting, for an single bone tool.

Can I as an CC member get flash cs6 for free at least ?

[NFB_VM]

I guess this is for historic documentation at this point...the Flash Pro CC webinar on Jan 13, 2015 had no mention of bone tools, although the good news is that Adobe is still developing Flash Pro CC with export to a variety of platforms.

As for bones, Spine by Esoteric software Spine: 2D animation software for games is currently doing some incredible work in this area. It has bones, Forward Kinematics, Inverse Kinematics, Meshes, and Free Form Deformations. Best of all, elements are targetable by AS3 - perfect for games where you need to swap body parts out on the fly or programmatically transition between animations.

It's a shame that Adobe hasn't implemented something similar in Flash Pro CC - it's the next logical step in animation production workflow tools.

Adobe, if you're listening, please implement bones into Flash Pro similar to the way Spine is implemented. The animation market is evolving past you.

[Herbert2001]

One wonders if any bone tools are ever going to be reimplemented in Flash at this point. Seeing that Adobe is touting their new character animation tool aptly called "Adobe Character Animator", one muses why all that effort was put in a new product, rather than integrating similar features in Flash.

Adobe must have given up on supplementing character animation tools in Flash.

[evanm74683038]

I am so upset that the bone tools have been deprecated! I used those tools every day to animate characters, and now that I've "upgraded" to the latest version, suddenly a tool I have relied on for years is no longer available. I am spending good money every month and I have to say between the issues I'm having with Illustrator CC and now this, I am really beginning to question my investment. Not just question, I am beginning to regret it.

[Herbert2001]

Yes, it is a loss. Flash's bone tools never were that subtle, but they were quite workable.

As an alternative, try Anime Studio - its bone tools and character animation options are far, far superior to Flash.

[evanm74683038]

I was hoping to leverage Flash's bone tools combined with its built-in ability to output directly to a PNG sprite sheet. It appears I'll have to animate in After Effects, which I generally dislike for character animation, and figure out my own method for outputting to a sprite sheet. I'm already paying monthly for CC, I can't afford yet another package to animate with, sadly. Thanks for the advice though.

[Herbert2001]

Understandable - the debut version is very affordable, although you'd be missing out on the really useful features. There are regular specials as well, so you might want to keep an eye out for those.

On the other hand, the new character animator tool has potential. Let's hope Adobe keeps supporting and improving it.

[Herbert2001]

Wow! The new v11 of Anime Studio looks great! Anyone looking for awesome bone tools, AND frame by frame animation should have a look. Photoshop import has been improved as well, making it very easy to construct characters with the help of Photoshop.

Even if the Flash dev team is working on new bone tools, I can't see them competing with this for the upcoming years in terms of animation. Well, competition is good for the market.

[Mahmood Zidan]

Bone tool is back to Flash CC 2015.

[Devendra Kumar · Accepted solution]

Hi All,

Bone tool is back to Flash CC 2015.

Flash Professional Help | New features summary

-Devendra Kumar

[rezun8]

as of today Flash CC 2015 it is back in Flash

[_keyframer]

That is correct - the Bone tool is back.

[MACinTUTOR]

Chris Georgenes' excellent book "How to Cheat at Flash" taught me to appreciate all the bone tool can do, I am very glad to see it back. Perhaps the Deco tool can also make a triumphant return in the new 64-bit Flash.
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