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P: Vertical bands in low light areas with Canon R7, using Camera RAW not with Canon DPP

New Here ,
Jul 07, 2022 Jul 07, 2022

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Using Canon R7, CR3 RAW files: I have discovered vertical bands when I shot in low light using higher ISO (ISO 1600 and up), when I process using the latest Camera RAW Using Windows 11. When I process using Canons latest DPP software the bands are not there.  This is with standard settings, no exposure change or other changes except standard sharpening.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Jul 14, 2022 Jul 14, 2022

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Community Expert ,
Jul 08, 2022 Jul 08, 2022

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This is actually a moiré pattern, you can see the concentric circles. This has been known to happen with certains lens profiles.

 

But first rule out a screen resampling artifact! Make sure you view at 100%.

 

If that's not it, you should report it as a bug (go up on the main page and click the "Bugs" tab).

 

Can you turn off the lens profile? I understand you can't with some mirrorless cameras with built-in lens profiles. I can with my Sonys, but I don't think it's possible with e.g. Nikon Z.

 

 

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New Here ,
Jul 11, 2022 Jul 11, 2022

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Wether its moire or not I have no idea. However it does not exists in the Canon generated built in JPGs om the Raw, nor in the Canon DPP generated JPG from the RAW. Therefore it must be an issue in ACR's rendering. I have tried on three different computers with different screens. My conclusion is that this is some sort of bug in ACR's handling of these files. I tried to report this is a as a bug, if this is not the right place - where do I report it?

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Community Expert ,
Jul 11, 2022 Jul 11, 2022

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Read my post again: view at 100% first. If it's still there, see if you can turn off the lens profile. If you can, that will most likely remove the pattern.

 

Yes, it's a bug, but not in the ACR processing. It's a bad lens profile. You can report that as a bug. Go to the front page here in the ACR forum, at the top you see a row of tabs. One is called "Bugs".

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New Here ,
Jul 11, 2022 Jul 11, 2022

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Ok thank you so it is not just one but several bad profiles for different lenses, btw I did go to where it says Bug but found nowhere to push a button to leave a report in the bug forum, can this post be reassigned?

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 12, 2022 Jul 12, 2022

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Based upon the information provided more information is needed:

  1.  Exact version number of your Adobe Software
  2.  List of lenses under which you observe this effect
  3.  Sample raw file showing the effect
  4.  Step-by-step editing instructions to make the pattern appear
Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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New Here ,
Jul 12, 2022 Jul 12, 2022

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1. Adobe Photoshop Version: 23.4.1 20220615.r.547 3121b66 x64

2. Canon EF-S 55-250mm; RF-S 18-150mm; 

3. attached

4. Apply optical lens correction, apply my  standard sharpening (70,0.5,65) (see .XMP)

5. Zoom to 100%

6. Please note. The uploader did not allow me to upload the original RAW file, message: 

Correct the highlighted errors and try again.

  • The attachment's _d3a0890.cr3 content type (image/CR3) does not match its file extension and has been removed.
  • Any other way to upload the file???

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LEGEND ,
Jul 12, 2022 Jul 12, 2022

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You may need to put the RAW file on Dropbox or another sharing service.

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New Here ,
Jul 12, 2022 Jul 12, 2022

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I have put two RAWS on Onedrive here is alink https://1drv.ms/u/s!AszEh3V8U328hJ8qBVixgdqcQbRhdQ?e=T4P1fV 

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 13, 2022 Jul 13, 2022

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Looking at the files and their XMP it looks like you are not applying Noise Reduction or Sharpening>Masking.  Using these sliders, I can make the pattern disappear.  Masking value of ~ 20 and Luminance Noise of ~20 do the trick. I suspect Canon is applying noise reduction behind the scenes as well. 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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New Here ,
Jul 13, 2022 Jul 13, 2022

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Ok I tried it and it mostly disapears that way, not 100%. Is this the recommended workaround or will Adobe investigate this further and issue a fix?

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New Here ,
Jul 13, 2022 Jul 13, 2022

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I just uploaded one more where it really shows, file is ending in 880.cr3

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 13, 2022 Jul 13, 2022

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It is expected that noise reduction is required on higher ISO images. Using appropriate noise reduction isn't a workaround - it is part of long-established workflow. 

I will forward this post to the Camera Raw lens profile expert for evaluation. 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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New Here ,
Jul 13, 2022 Jul 13, 2022

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Yes I understand thast one has to use noise reduction on noisy images, but I dont think using the lens profile and sharpening should introduce banding, If I look at the similar images I took with the EF-S 10-18mm on the same subject, it did not introduce any banding when using the lens profile and a pretty standard sharpening. I'm glad you are forwarding this to the lens profile expert, I think it merits an investigation why this happens, seems like a bug to me.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 14, 2022 Jul 14, 2022

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Set status to Investigating

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products
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Community Expert ,
Jul 16, 2022 Jul 16, 2022

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I downloaded the 880.cr3 file,  and what looks a bit like banding in the top right corner is caused by a combination of underexposure, oversharpening, too little masking, and lack of Luminance noise reduction.

I'm guessing that the lens profile accentuates the effect of your edits, because the corners have been stretched.

 

Underexposure will inevitably introduce noise in the shadows, particularly with high ISO images.

See Exposing a digital image 

You have set Amount to 70 for sharpening, which is way too high, and Masking is set to only 6, which is not nearly enough.

In addidtion, you have to use Luminance noise reduction.

 

Always work at 100% view when applying sharpening and noise reduction. Any other view will be inaccurate and misleading because the image has been scaled. (if you have a 4k or higher resolution monitor, you may need to work at 200% view, because the pixels are so small)

 

Below is a screenshot of your edits and mine, and my settings. I also set Exposure to 1.00 for both versions.

 

image.png

 

image.png

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New Here ,
Jul 18, 2022 Jul 18, 2022

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I do understand that I have to work at 100% use noise reduction (I have been using PS for about 18 years now) As for the sharpening being way to much I have been using it for at least 10 years now as my standard sharpening, with no particular halos in my images on a number of cameras, Nikon and Canon. I have never seen this phenomeon before. I have seen it when over exposing in post with say 3-6 stops, wich is just a test for some people. But I digress.

 

What this bug report is about that the lens profile of certain (but not all) lenses + sharpening introduces banding in lower exposed areas when used with the new Canon R7. when using Canon DPP for Post processing for reference it does not happen as far as I can tell.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 18, 2022 Jul 18, 2022

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Your settings are pretty wild, I wouldn't recommend them. Just consider this a new camera, new workflow needed.

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New Here ,
Jul 18, 2022 Jul 18, 2022

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What this bug report is about that the lens profile of certain (but not all) lenses + sharpening introduces banding in lower exposed areas when used with the new Canon R7. when using Canon DPP for Post processing for reference it does not happen as far as I can tell.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 19, 2022 Jul 19, 2022

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Introduces or exposes banding? Use reasonable settings and its not an issue.

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