elearning suite to Learning Management System (LMS) - how-to from an InDesign file?

[Stan-C]

We need to be able to export InDesign files to a portable SCORM format that could be loaded into various Learning Management Systems (LMS) – however, it is not obvious how we would do this? We need to publish our documents both in a book\PDF format and to various LMS systems such as Blackboard, Moodle, Angel, Desire2Learn, etc.

What am I trying to accomplish? Many of our College and University clients use Learning Management Systems (LMS).  SCORM is a standardized interchange format used to provide internet ready information (e-book data, test questions, etc.) to any LMS systems. We need to export formatted InDesign documents – which for us are our Lab Manual (book) publications which include: text, graphics, pictures, etc.

Adobe advertises SCORM compatibility as part of its e-learning suite: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/elearningsuite/els/extensions/WSD40882CF-6 C5C-46c0-8D51-273830EB036B.html --- however, I cannot find anyone who can tell me how to get there from InDesign.

In addition, I find it very frustrating that after many calls to Adobe sales and technical staff that I can't find anyone who can help me with the details of how to get from InDesign to Adobe's "SCORM Packager"  See: http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/2009/01/scorm_packager.html which I believe is a part of the e-learning suite.

Is it possible to find a high level technical resource within Adobe that I could talk to who could help me with this issue --- we need to test the ability to produce SCORM compatible files from our InDesign files before we can make a purchase decision.

[Lilybiri]

InDesign is not in the eLearning Suite, why do you not post this in the InDesign forum. This is also a double posting, not?

Lilybiri

[Stan-C]

Yes I am aware that InDesign is not part of the elearning suite that is the problem.

Our documents to be exported to an LMS are created with InDesign.

It was suggested that I post this on the elearning suite forum.

[RodWard]

Adobe's Multi SCORM Packaging tool is designed to take existing single SCORM packages (in zip file format) and merge them into a multi SCORM package with a rewritten imsmanifest.xml file at the root level to tell the LMS what the package contains.  This allows the LMS to build the array of links that its SCORM player requires to allow the course user to navigate from one module to another.

So if InDesign is not currently capable of creating even a single SCO SCORM package, the Adobe Multi-SCORM Packaging tool is not going to be much use to you.

In reality, the Adobe tool is quite limited in functionality.  It's more designed as an add-on for Captivate to allow multi-SCORM courses to be created. Your best bet would probably be to investigate other SCORM packaging tools such as RELOAD that allow you to take content created elsewhere and add them to a SCORM package as resources.

You may need to export your InDesign content as PDF files and have these set up as individual resources or assets in the SCORM package.

However, for any of this to work with an LMS is going to require the final package to have a SCORM API (done with JavaScript) so that user interaction with the individual components of the course is relayed back to the LMS via JavaScript variables.  Packaging tools such as RELOAD may be able to do this with some types of content (e.g. HTML) but I don't know if InDesign output is going to be compatible with this approach.

Have you designed your InDesign course content with interactivity in mind, or is it just straight content delivered in a documentation format?

[Lilybiri]

Hello,

I do use InDesign, and know it has functionalities to create publications for online with some interactivities like buttons etc but AFAIK no SCORM can be published with ID. Moreover, up till now I did not succeed in inserting CP-created SWF's while it is possible to insert simple animations.

If I have to start with an ID-document I will mostly convert it to PDF because Acrobat Pro will allow me to combine with CP-SWF's. Quizzes created with CP5.5 and with output to PDF can even be used to report.

This is only my personal experience, I do use the eLearning Suite a lot, and because of those complications rarely InDesign is one of my other tools for eLearning modules.

Lilybiri

[Erik Lord]

I echo Rod's question,

"Have you designed your InDesign course content with interactivity in  mind, or is it just straight content delivered in a documentation  format?"

The primary advantage of an LMS is to track user actions in a 'lesson' (module, course, whatever).

InDesign, as you know, just creates a document....so what's the purpose of delivering such a non-interactive element through the LMS?

Or, perhaps more to the point, what do you need to track...if anything?

Maybe there's confusion in the approach. While most LMS products sure insist on the learning content to be SCORM compliant, that doesn't necessarily mean ALL content uploaded to an LMS *has* to be SCORM compliant...

For instance, in our Inquisiq LMS, any 'lesson' content you want tracked does have to meet the SCORM spec. However, if you also have supplemental material to upload in conjunction with the SCORM lesson, that is uploaded as 'Course Materials' and there is no SCORM requirement for those files.

So perhaps back up a sec...what do you really need to do with these InDesign documents?

If you do indeed need to track them, make them SCORM-compliant, then there are likely a few 'wrapper' suggestions we can provide.

HTH
Erik

[Stan-C]

Our course content that we eventually need to export to an external LMS is currently static content delivered in documentation (textbook style format) --- in our case these are Lab Manuals for online science courses . The LMS documents will include formatted text, pictures, graphics, tables, and also a cover page, an InDesign Table of Contents, an introductory section, anywhere from 2 to 30 experiment documents, and appendix documents.

Can we simply export our static PDF files as modules from InDesign and load them using the Adobe Multi-SCO feature?

RON: I’m not at all sure I follow your comment: “However, for any of this to work with an LMS is going to require the final package to have a SCORM API (done with JavaScript) …” where can I get more details or help on how to do this?

[brightonjon]

I've read this thread several times and still don't understand what you actually want to achieve with this. Why exactly do you want SCORM? What behaviours are you going to be tracking?

Presumably you want the content to go on the LMSs because that's where other learning content is hosted, but (assuming InDesign can export to .pdf) what's stopping you from simply uploading the content as .pdf?

[Lilybiri]

@brightonjohn

InDesign can export to PDF, no problem.

I do not understand it either. At first I thought he wanted to incorporate Captivate-generated SWF's for assessments, and there I answered that inserting SWF's in InDesign is perfectly possible but not CP-created SWF's. That could be the only reason for me to need SCORM.

In the past I uploaded pdf-portfolio's to our LMS, as a package, no need for SCORM since I only wanted to track if this was viewed which is a functionality of the LMS itself.

Sometimes it is really hard to understand questions

Lilybiri

[Guest]

Stan-C : no criticism intented, we're just trying to get to the bottom of what you really need so we can help you

Is your goal

1. Just getting the stuff available on the LMS
2. Tracking some activity within the content
3. Something else

?

1. Most LMSs can pretty much double up as websites, so no problem: just upload your content as pdf. Having said that, I've come across LMSs - well, an LMS - that just won't accept anything other than SCORM (or AICC) because, well I can't remember what the reason was but it wasn't a very good reason. If you have an LMS like that then I can see why you would need the SCORM wrapper. Not sure how you would go about that from pdf, though a quick Google suggests you may have more luck exporting from InDesign to html and converting that to SCORM.
2. If this is your goal, you're setting yourself up for a lot of work doing it this way! You basically have a big box of content. What exactly are you testing? That the learner has opened the content? That they've looked at the last page? That they've spent more than 30 minutes with the content open? Not really tests of learning. It's probably easier to separate the content from the tracking/testing. You can easily build a SCORM test in Captivate (or Presenter, or a million other applications) that tests behaviour, whether it's answering questions, correctly progressing through a scenario, or whatever, and sit that on the LMS alongside your learning content that InDesign produces. You then don't need to track anything in the learning content. Because if they can pass the test, how else did they learn it?
   
3. We'll need more info

Does that help?

Message was edited by: oldcarrera Actually it was edited by brightonjon who obviously logged in with the wrong adobe ID by mistake 🙂

[Stan-C]

This has all been very helpful and I am impressed with the replies --- in our case I think just exporting from InDesign to an interactive PDF with bookmarks will solve our problem. Our instructor clients just need the content available online for their students, so that the students can complete their science labs. Our main goal is “1.Just getting the stuff available on the LMS.” Some instructors may want to check and see that their students have read an uploaded module, but that is a function of the LMS. Using Adobe’s bookmark feature will provide an easy index to our content.

As far providing PDF files and not worrying about the SCORM packager (Adobe Multi SCO Packager 2), yes we can do that. However, my main reason for looking at the packager was to simplify the LMS installation for our instructors (SCORM or not), since some of our instructors may not be very tech savvy as far as uploading content to their LMS, and they may not have an on-site tech staff to do this for them. For example, if the Multi-SCO-Packager worked, I would think that providing one ZIP file with all the contents included in the ZIP file put together by the packager would be simpler than providing possibly 20 to 25 individual PDF files, especially if the ZIP file when opened could automatically be uploaded to the LMS.

Lilybiri – You mentioned “In the past I uploaded PDF-portfolio's to our LMS, as a package,” --- 1) How did you create the PDF-portfolios? and 2) How did you upload the portfolios to an LMS?

[Lilybiri]

I created the portfolio's with Acrobat Pro - functionality exists since version 9. You can include all kind of documents, but I mostly inserted CP and Presenter created SWF's and occasionally a text document and a spreadsheet.

Uploading is just the same like for another course object.

For CP-created SWF's that did not need assessment, reporting, I zip the three output files (HTML, JS and SWF) which can be done by Cp, uploaded the zip file and instructed the LMS to unzip it and start the HTML-file. That works fine, but perhaps not on all LMS's

Lilybiri

[Stan-C]

Erik -- We are adding our content (static documentation) which is not interactive to an instructor’s existing LMS course. Other parts of the instructor’s content could very likely include interactivity (for quizzes, tests, etc.), but our content component is not interactive.

The need for adding our content from the instructor’s viewpoint is to have one comprehensive source of information for the student for the entire course. For example, part of the instructor’s LMS content could be an e-textbook provided by a publisher (not us), and probably not interactive as well. The instructor wants our content, which is the Science Lab Manual (from an InDesign Book) for the lab portion of the course to be available online to the distance education students so that the student has one place to go for all of their course information (the online LMS course). In addition, this makes it easier for the instructor to add course specific comments to their LMS that relate to our labs – for example: Lab #3 is due on Friday 9/30/11. 

Tracking is not an issue we are concerned about, the LMS does that for the instructor as far as I know. For example, an instructor may want to check and see if the documentation file for one of our lab experiments has been opened by the student, however, I am pretty sure that most LMS systems provide that functionality, and we are not concerned with tracking. 

As stated above, our main reason for looking at the packaging of lab documents was to simplify the LMS delivery and installation of our lab documents for our instructors (SCORM or not). Some of our instructors may not be very tech savvy as far as uploading content to their LMS, and they may not have on-site tech staff to do this for them. For example, if the Multi-SCO-Packager worked, I would think that providing one ZIP file with all the contents included in the ZIP file put together by the packager would be simpler than providing possibly 20 to 25 individual PDF files, especially if the ZIP file when opened could automatically be uploaded and added to the existing LMS.

Perhaps I have confused the issue by even mentioning SCORM --- I am not a SCORM expert, but I assumed by the very definition of SCORM (Sharable Content Object Reference Model) that this format was the most convenient way to provide and share content in a standardized format for uploading to any LMS.

[Erik Lord]

In our LMS, files uploaded as 'Course Materials' are not tracked in any way. If you want tracking, the file needs to be "SCORM'd" and uploaded as a "lesson".

So your first two questions are:

Does your LMS provide any way to upload content that is NOT SCORM-compliant?

If so, does it provide any method of tracking student access to that content (documents in this case)?

If not, then you need to get your final output to be SCORM-compliant somehow. PDFs, unfortunately, don't have any sort of SCORM-compliant component to them yet (and I'm surprised by that a bit)....at least that I'm aware of.

The easiest thing to do would be find an application that can output a SCORM file that can 'house' a PDF file. Unfortunately, nothing easy comes to mind. Perhaps others here have an easy idea.

what *I* would do is create a simple HTML 'wrapper' (just an HTML file with the proper SCORM code) and embed the PDF in that.

So when a user launches the 'lesson', the HTML file opens and shows the PDF within - just like viewing a PDF online in most all other situations....

....however, since there'd be simple SCORM code in that HTML file too, when the user opened it, it would record - say - 'completed' to the LMS...so instructors can see that if that PDF 'lesson' has a 'completed' status, the user opened it.

NOW, you probably would NOT be able to bookmark the PDF without some advanced JS coding...that's another, deeper conversation...

HTH

Erik

[brightonjon]

Erik, when you say

In our LMS, files uploaded as 'Course Materials' are not tracked in any  way. If you want tracking, the file needs to be "SCORM'd" and uploaded  as a "lesson".

I think (correct me if I'm wrong Stan) that Stan meant simple page visit tracking. And many LMSs will do that for non SCORM content. For instance in Moodle you can see which users have opened a video, because Moodle knows which learner is logged on and knows that they've clicked the link that launches the content. What it can't tell you is what they did 'inside' the content, so that won't replace SCORM but can sometimes be quite useful.

So my understanding of the conversation is that what Stan actually wants is a nice simple way to bundle up loads of content so that non-techys can upload everything in one go. It's a content management question rather than a SCORM question?

Well, if that's so, it's all going to depend on the LMS. Some may allow you to upload a folder, or a zip containing multiple items, and automatically generate separate links for each. Some won't. Or there's Lieve's option of bundling the pdfs together into a single big pdf container, though presumably you would only get a single link with that. I think it's probably going to be a different answer for each LMS.

So I think that takes us full circle in that multi-SCORM might indeed be a simple solution for that, which should work for any LMS. As I mentioned earlier, there seem to be a variety of html to SCORM packages available, so if you can export your InDesign stuff to html that'd be the route I'd probably want to go.

[Stan-C]

Yes as far as I know our instructors only need simple page visit tracking which should be a built-in feature of their LMS - And yes this is a content management question (how to get from ID to LMS), and not a SCORM question.

So it looks like we have two options to test:

1 – [ID] export to [PDF-interactive] to [Acrobat Pro portfolios] to LMS

2 – [ID] export to [PDF-interactive]  to [HTML wrapper] ** to LMS

** NOTE: Isn't this what Adobe-Multi-SCO-Packager-2 does? And if not how do we do this?

Unfortunately, since the LMS systems we may need to export to are many and varied, it appears from the replies that a one size fits all approach may not be available?

[RodWard]

The Adobe Multi-SCORM Packager is specifically designed to bundle up SCORM packages that have either been created with Captivate or some other tool that can create valid SCORM-compliant zip archives.  It's NOT designed to handle PDFs per se, unless they happen to have been packaged inside one of these SCORM zip archives.

My previous references to SCORM were with reference to the JavaScript API that it uses for tracking user interaction and quiz result scoring.  If you want to learn more technical details about how this API works, you can just Google for "SCORM API".  The Rustici Software website has a lot of good info.

By the sound of it, having followed this thread, it would seem that you don't need to worry about SCORM or the Adobe SCORM Packager if you don't need comprehensive tracking of user interaction.

[Erik Lord]

I defer on option 1 as I'm not all that familiar with PDF options - my experience pretty much being limited to just publishing Docs to PDF and perhaps some minor editing in Acrobat.

On option 2, it wouldn't have to be an 'HTML' wrapper...more, you need it to have a 'SCORM' wrapper...if the target LMS products require any uploaded content to be SCORM-compliant, or perhaps allow non-SCORM content to be uploaded but then don't report on user access to that content (like ours). The SCORM wrapper can take a number of forms...

Well, first, you probably don't want try a Flash approach (wrapper). You can't directly embed a PDF inside a Flash piece, so the usual recommendations of Captivate, Presenter, etc...won't work as you can't embed the PDF into the authoring tool pages at all. You can LINK to it, but that's just adding one more step for the user that shouldn't be necessary.

So all that aside, HTML is probably the best way to do it; it's easy to embed a PDF in an HTML page, of course. Now where do you find an easy HTML SCORM wrapper to work with?

Selfishly, we can provide one for you - could send you a sample file (HTML SCORM files and an embedded PDF) along with instructions on how to repurpose it for other PDF files. It's all developed so wouldn't be that much of a cost (but it's not free).

Alternatively, here are some other possible resources:

http://doc.claroline.net/en/index.php/How_do_I_create_SCORM_content%3F

http://pipwerks.com/2008/05/08/adding-scorm-code-to-an-html-file/

http://www.elearning-developer.com/?p=313

Hope that helps!
Erik

[Stan-C]

Erik - I'd like to discuss your sample file (HTML SCORM files and an embedded PDF).

I'll send an email with my contact information.