Adobe Illustrator 2022 is not detecting embedded profiles when placing an image

[alans50513998]

Illustrator v26.0.3 Does not detect the embedded profiles of images placed. I have my CMYK working space set to GRACoL2006_Coated1v2, and the plicies are all set to preserve embedded profiles and to ask when there is a mismatch.

If I go to File-Place and select an image with an embedded profile, in this case U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2, I should be receiving a color mismatch warning, but I do not. When looking at the info palette the files color is simply described as CMYK. The resulting PDF file shows the image tagged with the GRACoL2006_Coated1v2.icc, which is the working space of the Illustrator document. Clearly it has ignored or not detected the embedded profile.

FYI-Creative Suite settings are synchronized.

[NB, colourmanagement]

It seems Illustrator IS at least detecting the profile difference as you show the Embedded Profile Mismatch Dialog. [where (IF* you wish to embed a SWOP CMYK image into the 'GRACoL2006_Coated1V2' document) you did the right thing by selecting "use embedded profile"]

*maybe you have a good reason for wanting to do that?

An application reset may help-

To restore preferences quickly using a keyboard shortcut

Press and hold Alt+Control+Shift (Windows) or Option+Command+Shift (macOS) as you start Illustrator. The new preferences file is created the next time you start the program.

Here’s a help article: https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/using/setting-preferences.html

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer:: Co-Author:Getting Colour Right
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[alans50513998]

My settings are set to wanr about profile mismatches, but on this occassion as it now seems, it didn't. It assigned the document space to the SWOP image. Further testing showed this to only be a problem with specific files. Still trying to see what is different about those tagged files versus other tagged files. The reason for honoring embedded profiles in a GRACoL workspace is to avoid a color shift.

[Bob_Hallam]

Since this problem is centered around CMYK files and embedded profiles, Please tell me what you do when a CMYK file is tagged with a profile that is not your working space of GcaCol?  

[alans50513998]

I work for a printing company which is contstantly receiving art from designers, and processing it to print on grand format digital inkjet devices. We always honor the embedded profile of artwork and its linked images. 

[Bob_Hallam]

What standard is used in the grand format printing area?

What benifit results in honoring the embedded CMYK profile?  

[alans50513998]

There is no standard, only standards you wish to apply if you want to dumb down the color, or you want all your devices to print to the lowest common denominator. If you print for National and international retail brands, you want all the color available from your devices (larger than traditional CMYK "standards"), and manage the files to the appropriate device. That is the main reason for honoring the embedded profiles, in order to maintain the color supplied to us and not create a color shift, or extra work converting from one CMYK standard to another CMYK standard and then the output space.

[Bob_Hallam]

So your workflow maintains the embedded profile and converts to the device space, correct? Which in effect honors the embedded profile.   So your large gamut press would then be dumbed down to say SWOP or whatever profile was embedded.  Do you manage files with multiple CMYK profiles to the lowest profile space or the greatest profile space?   

[TheDigitalDog]

It doesn't matter Bob. The OP has to end up in their CMYK output color space from some color space, ideally defined. To do that, they need to convert and honor the original color space to do so; CMYK or RGB.

Now CMYK to CMYK conversions can be tricky due to black generation being reapplied, a Device Link profile which maybe the OP is using or not can help here. But in any case, the source has to be defined, it is what it is. If the source isn't defined, if it is assumed, the output color space conversion suffers.

[Bob_Hallam]

Of course Andrew that is obvious.  I was wondering why not just assign a profile and run to a standard.  They know the document profile of the Illustrator file.  Assuming it's the same as the CMYK file, there would not be a warning. 

[TheDigitalDog]

Of course Andrew that is obvious.  I was wondering why not just assign a profile and run to a standard.  They know the document profile of the Illustrator file.  Assuming it's the same as the CMYK file, there would not be a warning.

By @Bob_Hallam

Assign what profile? That's the rub here.

There is no 'standard'. That was explained.

There is some source profile that isn't defined and should be. Or there is and one simply makes a conversion from it to the output color space.

There is an output profile; it may be standard for the OP and no one else (hence the term 'standard' is ambiguous and unnecessary).

[alans50513998]

Bob - If the image was untagged, I would have made a guess and assigned a CMYK profile. However, the image is tagged with SWOPv2 and Illustrator did not recognize that, therefore when making the PDF, that element was untagged and would have had GRACoL2006 assigned to it (Illustrator's Working space). That is not honoring the embedded profile, that is casuing a color shift, and in the case of this image with a lot of shadow detail, it was making the separation of black hair to black background difficult to render in the final print.

[TheDigitalDog]

I'm with Neal on all this, it seems to be doing what it is supposed to be doing; the embedded profile doesn't match the preferred Working Space profile, you get that warning. The Embedded Profile Mismatch seems to be doing as it should.

One possible issue could be the Place command which AFAIK, may not be hooked up to provide that mismatch. Paste (at least in Photoshop) would. Can you try Paste instead of Place and see if you get the same behavior?

[alans50513998]

The mismatch warning screenshot came from Photoshop when I opened the image link, not Illustrator. I am not a designer and  we do not create the art, typically. We open customer supplied files and prepare them for printing, therefore we need Illustrator to properly honor embedded profiles of linked images. In this particular case and a couple others we've recently come across, it is not doing so. Further testing late last week after my post, showed that it was only an issue with certain images, that were supplied to us. I've tried to recereate the problem with my test images and have found them to work. I guess that measn the title of my Post does not apply 100% as a descriptor now. However, I am inteseted as to why this is happening with images that Photoshop can detect a mismatch but Illustrator cannot.

Pasting the image does not work either.

[TheDigitalDog]

If this is only happening with some images, well we need access to inspect what's going on with just those images to get to the bottom of this issue.

Indeed, you need to and want to honor any supplied, embedded profiles.

I wonder if, in some cases, the embedded profile is the same as you have set up as your preferred Working Space but you're not seeing that, hence no warning. You say the files color is simply described as CMYK, that's only the color model, not the actual color space defined by the profile, so maybe this is untagged or the profile is in sync? Again, without having a look at one of the documents, difficult to say remotely.

[alans50513998]

The image is tagged with SWOP v2, I see that when opening in Photoshop, where a mismatch warning does pop up. The AI doc working space is set to GRACoL2006, and I don't get the warning, nor does it display its tagged profile informatio, in the Illustrator links info palette. Now, when I opne the SWOPv2 tagged images and convert ot to another CMYK profile, and link the new image, it is being detected and the appropriate warning dispalys in Illustrator. It just won't work using the image as it was supplied to us. Weird... This is one of our larger accounts, and I've seen it on a couple of other jobs this week. So the issue is actually with the the tiff image.

[TheDigitalDog]

Could these TIFFs be compressed or generated from a non-Adobe app not following Adobes TIFF standards?

[alans50513998]

That is what we were just wondering here amongst my team members. We may never know. Do you know of a way thatcan be ascertained? I've attached a screenshot of the Info.

[Bob_Hallam · Accepted solution]

Save it as a PSD file in Photoshop.  If it doesn't change the warning then the file is not a proflem.  Check the document profile in Illustrator.  If that is the same as the image then there will be no warning. 

[alans50513998]

That was the problem. As a PSD it was detected and the mismatch warning displayed. I also did find out that the image was manipulated in the software Capture One 21.

Thanks for your help figuring this out. Concerning though, that something like this problem exists.

[TheDigitalDog]

That was the problem. As a PSD it was detected and the mismatch warning displayed. I also did find out that the image was manipulated in the software Capture One 21.

By @alans50513998

C1 isn't writing the TIFF correctly, that's the real issue. Now you have to save each as a PSD (of course, if you resave as a TIFF from Photoshop, does it work?).

[alans50513998]

No. Resaving as a TIFF using Photoshop with the same embedded profile did not work. That was one of the first things I tried. Converting to a different ICC profile and saving as a TIFF did work.

[TheDigitalDog]

So to fully understand:

You get a C1 generated TIFF, that isn't behaving correctly.

You open it in Photoshop and resave as PSD, it is fine?

You open it in Photoshop and save as a new TIFF, doesn't work?

Or:

Converting the C1 TIFF to another profile and saving as PSD worked (I'd kind of expect that). But converting to another profile and saving as TIFF didn't? That's really very odd.

[alans50513998]

- C1 file with embedded profile did not behave correctly
- Resave C1 file from Photoshop to a TIFF, without changing anything did
not behave correctly.
- Resave C1 original as a PSD, works.
- Converting C1 original to a different ICC and saving as a TIFF also
works.


Alan Stratton | Color Team Manager
alan.stratton@thebernardgroup.com
952-227-1050 direct | 651-247-6739 cell
19011 Lake Drive East | Chanhassen, MN 55317
thebernardgroup.com

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[TheDigitalDog]

Man, that's weird.

Do the C1 images all have the same embedded profile? If so, what is it, where did it come from?