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Adobe RGB files being converted to RGB After transferring to Laptop

Community Beginner ,
Aug 15, 2023 Aug 15, 2023

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I have found this problem where, after transferring Adobe RGB files from my camera into my hard drive that, the images are being converted into RGB and a colour profile of Display P3. I have no idea why this is happening because I am DEFINITELY shooting in Adobe RGB, yet I still have files convert themselves into RGB after transfer. Why is this? And. How can I fix it?

 

Kind Regards,
Adam

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 15, 2023 Aug 15, 2023

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I have transferred one of those 'RGB' files from my laptop back into my camera and it is being picked up and read as an Adobe RGB file in my camera????

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Community Expert ,
Aug 16, 2023 Aug 16, 2023

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The setting in the camera for sRGB or Adobe RGB only affects jpg files, and the jpg preview embedded in the raw file. (which is what you see on the camera monitor)

Raw files  are not affected by this setting, they are greyscale files, and don't have a color profile.

 

quote

the images are being converted into RGB and a colour profile of Display P3. 

 

RGB is a color mode. Greyscale and CMYK are also color modes.

Adobe RGB s a color profile B (or color space) for RGB files.

So an image that is in the Adobe RGB color space is by definition an RGB file.

 

Are you shooting raw or jpg?

Are you on Mac or Windows?

How did you come to the conclusion that the color profile changed from Adobe RGB to Display P3?

And please describe your workflow. What do you do with the images after transferring them to your hard drive?

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 16, 2023 Aug 16, 2023

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I am shooting in RAW. I use Mac and my workflow is as follows: I take the photos from my SD card and copy them over to a select folder within my hard drive. That is it. I can then use the hard drive as a central storage device alongside a copy and use those files in whatever software I like.

Colour spaces in camera should affect RAW files! I’ve learnt that from trained professionals that they do so can you explain further what you mean?

I also came to the conclusion of the colour profile changing to Display P3 because I looked at the ‘more info’ when right clicking on the file and looked through the file’s data. (This is where I also found that the colour space has been changed to RGB)

I also simply made the observation that the colour space was different through changing my Mac’s colour space. When changing to Adobe RGB as the display setting the files looked less saturated and vibrant, rather than the theoretically noticeable saturated and vibrant colours compared to sRGB.

Kind regards
Adam

Sent from Outlook for iOS<>

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Community Expert ,
Aug 16, 2023 Aug 16, 2023

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quote
Colour spaces in camera should affect RAW files! I’ve learnt that from trained professionals that they do so can you explain further what you mean?
By @Adam W. Henderson

 

You've been misinformed. Raw files are one channel greyscale files, and they are in no particular color space.

Raw files (if you could see them) are very dark and flat monochrome files that need to be rendered by a raw converter to produce a useful image. This rendering produces a  new file, the raw file itself remains untouched.

The image you see on the camera monitor, and the Mac finder is not the raw file, but the embedded jpg preview (created by the camera).

 

I'm not a Mac user, and don't know why the files are reported as Display P3.

But it doesn't matter, because this is the profile for the embedded jpg preview, which has no effect on the raw file.

Leave your Mac's color settings alone, changing them won't do any good.

To edit the raw files, you have use a raw converter, like lightroom Classic, or the Camera Raw plugin for Photoshop.

 

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Community Expert ,
Aug 26, 2023 Aug 26, 2023

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@Per Berntsen 

 

Colour spaces in camera should affect RAW files! I’ve learnt that from trained professionals that they do so can you explain further what you mean?
By Adam W. Henderson

 

Per writes:

You've been misinformed. Raw files are one channel greyscale files, and they are in no particular color space.

Raw files (if you could see them) are very dark and flat monochrome files that need to be rendered by a raw converter to produce a useful image. This rendering produces a  new file, the raw file itself remains untouched.

The image you see on the camera monitor, and the Mac finder is not the raw file, but the embedded jpg preview (created by the camera).

 

yep, totally correct

 


neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

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Community Expert ,
Aug 16, 2023 Aug 16, 2023

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Per is entirely right. I was going to add to his posts, but on second thought there is nothing to add. It's spot on.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 26, 2023 Aug 26, 2023

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@Adam W. Henderson Image colourspace is reported in Photoshop here at bottom left of Photoshops imterface: 

Screenshot 2023-08-26 at 14.44.55.jpg

 

Is that showing 'P3' on your problem file?

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

 

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Aug 26, 2023 Aug 26, 2023

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quote
Colour spaces in camera should affect RAW files! I’ve learnt that from trained professionals that they do so can you explain further what you mean?
By @Adam W. Henderson

 

It is possible that the trained professionals are sort of correct, under a certain context, if that context is understood.

 

We are in agreement in this thread that raw files do not have an inherent color space. This is technically correct, and it is required, if the file is to literally be a camera raw file. Raw means raw, pure data, no interpretation applied yet. That includes not assuming a specific color space.

 

If so, then how can a camera color space setting “affect” a raw file? One way already discussed is the preview embedded in the raw file: Because raw data is not yet a visible picture, cameras attach a preview in a common format, usually JPEG. The JPEG preview is not raw, and it is typically assigned a color space by an option in the camera typically called Color Space. But again, that’s just for the preview, not the actual raw data. In some cameras, the color space setting affects how the histogram and clipping indicators are calculated. But again, this is a subtle and important distinction: The color space set in the camera is affecting the in-camera visual interpretation of the raw data, but the raw data itself still has no color space.

 

If you open the image in the camera maker’s raw converter software, it may read the color space set in the camera and use that as the default for how the colors are displayed when you edit in their software. So this is another way that the camera color space setting may “affect” the image. But again…the raw file still has no color space of its own; setting the color space is only affecting previewing and future conversion, not the raw data itself.

 

Now, about your original question, how can it now be saying Display P3? Guess what, the answer absolutely hinges on what we say above, that the raw file itself does not have a color space.

 

You said:

quote
I also came to the conclusion of the colour profile changing to Display P3 because I looked at the ‘more info’ when right clicking on the file and looked through the file’s data. (This is where I also found that the colour space has been changed to RGB)
By @Adam W. Henderson

 

Do you mean you chose Get Info, which opens the Get Info window in the macOS Finder which displays the Color Profile field? If so, this is the answer:

 

For raw files, macOS is assuming, not converting files to, Display P3. They haven’t been converted, Display P3 just what macOS is assuming because the raw file has no color space of its own. It means, if you use any app that uses the Apple raw converter to preview or convert, it will assume Display P3 by default. But the file data is still not actually in Display P3. (macOS Finder uses the Apple raw converter code to preview raw files.)

 

If you view the same file in Adobe Bridge, the color profile will probably say Untagged. This is more precise, because the raw file doesn’t actually have a color space. One reason it does not say Display P3 is because Adobe applications do not use the Apple raw converter, they use an Adobe raw converter like the one in Camera Raw or Lightroom. Therefore, they use Adobe raw settings and defaults, not the ones in macOS (or Windows).

 

If you open the same file in Photoshop, it must go through Camera Raw first, and will therefore be previewed and converted to a Photoshop document using whatever color space is set at the bottom of the Camera Raw window. That may not match Display P3 or Adobe RGB. Again…the discrepancy will not be because of any “unwanted conversion,” but because of a default having to be there because, once again, a raw file has no color space of its own.

 

To summarize: Because a raw file has no color space, it is likely that different applications on the same computer will report different color spaces for that same one raw file. Because each viewer has to assume something, and they’re usually not all set to assume the same thing. The main thing to remember is to set the color space the way you want it in the raw conversion software you use.

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Community Expert ,
Sep 01, 2023 Sep 01, 2023

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@Conrad C excellent answer which fully describes the issues seen:

"To summarize: Because a raw file has no color space, it is likely that different applications on the same computer will report different color spaces for that same one raw file. Because each viewer has to assume something, and they’re usually not all set to assume the same thing. The main thing to remember is to set the color space the way you want it in the raw conversion software you use."

 

I hope the OP can grasp the sitiuation and to understand that to check colourspace they must use an Adobe app as descrived above.

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

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