Indesign RGB printing

[_paul_betteridge_]

Hi we have Indesin CS3 and we have great problems printing to our Inkjet printers getting wild variations on colour

we have an eye one calibrator and have no problems calibrating and get great results

we need to use indesign to print several photographs and text from indesign

Ie template with photos text boxes with ids and logos we do not wish to manipulate the images as they are medical shots and we require the original colours / exposure

when printing indesign uses "composite" whereas photoshop uses RGB

any suggestions as to where i am going wrong please.

Paul

[Was DYP]

Since this whole mess has been going on since the release of CS3 it will probably be a cold day in he!! before Adobe and Apple get together and address this.

Looks to me like your only choices are:

1. Get HP to write a driver that bypasses the Apple print process like the Canon iPF drivers do. More likely that Adobe and Apple fixing it.

2. Get a Canon iPF printer and use "Fast Graphic Process" to bypass Apple's print process.

3. Get a RIP.

[alexgodlex]

Do a RIP would really fix this ?

It can print RGB too ?

I regret not have choose the HP B9180, cause there is no RIP for my printer !

What Canon would you choose ?

[alexgodlex]

Wow, Canon iPF that sounds a bunch of money !

And what about printing CMYK PDF ?

[alexgodlex]

Another idea : if the color are wrong but constant : is it possible to make a profil using this printed chart : it would correct the wrong colors ?!

I don't know the process involved in this wrong color thing : the screen's profil is used in the printing process ? So if you don't change your screen profil and use the same settings with this new profile, could the color could be right in the end ?

Maybe i'm not clear enough… tell me.

[Was DYP]

Yes that is possible. That is the way I did it before Leopard and

Canon drivers with Fast Graphic Process.

[Was DYP]

alexgodlex wrote:

Do a RIP would really fix this ?

It can print RGB too ?

I regret not have choose the HP B9180, cause there is no RIP for my printer !

What Canon would you choose ?

I called Canon to see if they have a list. Tech support (they are wonderful by the way) is going to try to get a list for me.

But you could download some drivers and install them and see if they have the Fast Graphic Process option. I would do this on a test partition though.

[alexgodlex]

i'm afraid i will never found the money to get an ipf canon + rip

sounds a bit oo much for a freelance graphic designer 😕

[Printer_Rick]

I stumbled on this old thread, a great discussion that ended somewhat abruptly. I'm curious if the problem is resolved. There was a similar problem in the InDesign forum just yesterday.

[Was DYP]

Printer_Rick wrote:

I stumbled on this old thread, a great discussion that ended somewhat abruptly. I'm curious if the problem is resolved. There was a similar problem in the InDesign forum just yesterday.

AFAIK, NO this problem has not been resolved as of 10.5.7 and ID 6.0.3. I have not tested 10.5.8 yet but I would really be surprised if it was fixed. Since this has gone on so long I would even be surprised to find it fixed in 10.6.

But the workarounds described before are manageable.

And I never did get a list from Canon on what drivers have the option of Fast Graphic Process.

[neuelex]

At the end i'm using PrintFab RIP, the price is very low, and it works very good.

[Printer_Rick]

I don't have an Epson, I have an HP. I also use a RIP but the Epson post script problem still has my attention.

Let me see if I fully understand what's going on. Say you have CS4 standard, using the canned "North America Prepress 2" color settings, all apps synchronized.

From InDesign, you print to the Epson. In the print dialog the output is Composite RGB by default. Under Color Management, Proof is selected (Profile US Web Coated SWOP v2, using canned settings). Color Handling, Let InDesign determine. The appropriate printer profile is selected. Simulate Paper Color is enabled. Print as Bitmap is disabled.

Once the printout is finished, you go back to InDesign. View Proof Setup, you enable Paper White. View Proof Colors is enabled. The printout does not match what you see in InDesign on the calibrated display.

Is this a fair representation of the problem, or am I way off base?

[Was DYP]

First clarify are you using the RIP or the Printer Driver?

If RIP is it setup to run CMYK or RGB?

Are you making prints or proofing offset print jobs?

[Printer_Rick]

Was DYP wrote:

First clarify are you using the RIP or the Printer Driver?

If RIP is it setup to run CMYK or RGB?

Are you making prints or proofing offset print jobs?

No RIP, the workflow I described was postscript sent from InDesign to the Epson ink jet.

My example was proofing an offset print job, but it could be any proof condition. I'm trying to understand the Epson problem. Is the issue the Epson printout not matching the soft proof?

I myself don't use a postscript workflow on a daily basis, I use a RIP, but I thought the Epson issue was a post script issue. Is this correct?

[Was DYP]

If your proofing a print job without a RIP this is what I would do.

Take your postscript file or PDF file that you are sending to your

offset printer and open it (rasterize it) in Photoshop. But before you

do this make a proof setup in Color Settings in Photoshop with your

printer/paper profile set as your RGB profile and CMKY set as the

profile your send to your offset printer. Then when you open it

(rasterize it) in Photoshop set RGB in the open dialog. The file will

open and be converted directly to you printer/paper (proofer) profile.

Then print the file with the PS print dialog to No Color Management

all printer driver color management turned off.

The Indesign problem printing RGB to any printer is if your using

Apple's printing path (Canon can bypass this with the Fast Graphic

Process selection) is your monitor profile gets (incorrectly)

introduced into the printflow resulting in inaccurate color. Since

this does not happen when "Print as Bitmap" it happen somewhere in the

rasterizing chain when ID hand off rasterization to Apple.

[Was DYP]

I guess I should not be surprised.

After three major releases of OSX and 19 updates and two major version and 7 updates of Indesign the monitor profile is still being introduced in to the RGB printflow.

What the HELL does it take to get this bug fixed?

[neuelex]

Do you mean you've tried with Snow Leopard ?

[Was DYP]

neuelex wrote:

Do you mean you've tried with Snow Leopard ?

Yes Snow Leopard.

I am assuming the 10.4.x was current when CS3 was released. I don't even remember what year, but not fixing this after all the time is ridiculous.

And yes this has been reported to both Adobe and Apple. I have done it a least a half dozen times myself.

Since we are on the issue of ID printing, both CS3 and CS4 will not see profiles in the system folders when running on SL. If you are not printing from anything other that Adobe products you can move your profiles to /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles folder. Or if you want to keep them in the system folder just make an alias of the system profile folder and put the alias into the /Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles folder.

[neuelex]

Sorry to go offtopic but i have a problem that drives me nutes, i was wondering if i'm the only one experiencing a problem like that and if you ahve some tips.

I'm actually printing a document with PrintFab and, sometimes, not always, i have "ghost images" on my prints.

Gonna try to explain ; its like the photo i'm printing is duplicated but not at 100% (like at 15%) and not at the same place (like 1cm away) and not on the whole image (just like a piece of the image).

I can have it or not, printing 2 times with the same settings…

I'm not 100% sure because i waste some much printing with this ¨*¨*%*./?xô*$x printer (hp b8850), but i think i experienced this BEFORE i use PrintFab too.

I wonder if it's related to the printer itself, do i have to send it back ?

[Was DYP]

If you take offset printing, they say your images needs to be 300dpi, ok, but if you raster your text at 300dpi the result is uggly. I think vector don't print the same way as bitmap, can't explain why but the result is here, clearly visible. I think todays inket can print far more sharper than 600dpi, don't you think ?

In offset printing you talking about burning plates with a RIP generated raster at 2400dpi to 3600dpi. Not really anything near what an inkjet is doing.

The question with todays inkjet is what dpi is the printer driver or OS rastering at when it sends a job to the printer. Again what printer?

[alexgodlex]

I'm using an HP B8850.

I agree thats totally different techniques of printing, i just say i think its better not to rasterize file before priniting, and from now it seems true as vectors are cleary way better when i don't rasterise the file.

[alexgodlex]

Can you tell me what to do to be able to print this file in Acrobat pro with the right colors ?

[Was DYP]

alexgodlex wrote:

I'm using an HP B8850.

I agree thats totally different techniques of printing, i just say i think its better not to rasterize file before priniting, and from now it seems true as vectors are cleary way better when i don't rasterise the file.

The file gets rasterized somewhere other than the printer (unless it is a Postscript Printer). The question is, at what resolution is the being done at in the printer driver/OS combo.

[alexgodlex]

Well to me there is no question here : it does't print correctly i don't need to understand why unless i'm the guy coding the driver for HP…

If printing bitmap doesn't give good result, the question is : how can i use Acrobat Pro to print my chart with no color managment ?

[alexgodlex]

NB. How do you explain that when i print the same image (with no profile) with Indesign 'emulate Indesig 2.0' and in Photoshop with no CMS, i don't have the exact same result ?

If there is no CMS in both appl, how is it even possible ?