Issues with color management running Mac OS 11.5.2

[Mario22557410r4sh]

Hello

so since my last update to big sur, i have been having issues with color management.  my macbook pro is calibrated i'd say about once a month.  since the update i have been having issues not only proofing but with my printing.  I know the proof is correct from taking the file elsewhere to print (samy's camera) and it always comes out to how i proofed it in photoshop.  prints typically have an issue printing yellow for some reason, and tend to lean a bit toward magenta or a cooler tone, but when printed elsewhere i have no color issue.  i print using and epson p600 and i never use airprint for my printer driver.  my print head is in good condition.  i have uninstalled and installed multiple times and same issue every time.  i have the correct profile and paper type, with black point compensation, but really nothing ever changes. 

now when i proof in photoshop, my prints do match what is printed(not on my printer though).  The issue does show a color change when the print option is selected from file.  what is displayed is alot different than what is already proofed with the same settings.  paper type, black point compensation, paper size, relative, printer driver, etc....

[TheDigitalDog]

The Macbook display (which is far from ideal) may be calibrated but calibrated to what? If you want a soft proof to match a print, that's the goal of the calibration.

See:

Why are my prints too dark?
Why doesn’t my display match my prints?
A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013
In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

Are your prints really too dark?
Display calibration and WYSIWYG
Proper print viewing conditions
Trouble shooting to get a match
Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4
Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4

[Mario22557410r4sh]

Informational video, but the darkness isn’t what is going on. I’m working
on a calibrated monitor, which has been edited using the proper color
profile for printer and paper. The file printed correctly with another
device and same software as myself. Now, when viewed on photoshop or
Lightroom on my computer, the profile changes when opened in the print
dialog and is printed matching neither my proof nor what is shown in the
print dialog view

[TheDigitalDog]

And the video covers more than darkness, it covers what is necessary to produce (within the display gamut and control over display calibration) WYSIWYG.

The file printing elsewhere is moot unless you have that output profile and rendering intent used for that other print AND you calibrate for a match to that. Was that also the same P600 and output profile? Seems not.

The output profile on your system works with the display profile to produce a preview. That's what needs to be accounted for.

You keep saying you are working on a calibrate display which doesn't specify the important question: calibrated for WHAT?

[Bob_Hallam]

Can you simply select the correct profile and not allow photoshop to change it when printing?  

[NB, colourmanagement]

"i have been having issues not only proofing but with my printing.  I know the proof is correct from taking the file elsewhere to print (samy's camera) and it always comes out to how i proofed it in photoshop.  prints typically have an issue printing yellow for some reason, and tend to lean a bit toward magenta or a cooler tone, but when printed elsewhere i have no color issue."

"I know the proof is correct" - that’s a printed proof (from Sami's) right?

"prints typically have an issue printing yellow for some reason, and tend to lean a bit toward magenta or a cooler tone'

so when you mention "prints" there, those are the prints you make yourself on your Epson P600? 

"when printed elsewhere i have no color issue" - so if you print that at Sami's its fine, but not on your Epson?

If your screen calibration shows images (prints or proofs) that match Sami's that’s a good sign.

BUT we don't KNOW for sure that their prints ARE accurate.

And your screen does not match the prints made on your Epson 600 - with a supported paper and an ICC profile?

With "Photoshop Manages Color"? 

How are you "calibrating" the screen?

some screen calibration info

To get to the bottom of issues like this I use this test:
"Have you ever wondered how to KNOW whether your screen [or printer] is ACCURATE and not just 'pleasing'?
If so please check this out: http://www.colourmanagement.net/products/icc-profile-verification-kit

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[NB, colourmanagement]

I wonder if the below affects 11.5.2 aswell? If that’s the OS you have?  or are you using 11.6.2? 

There is apparently a bug in Mac OSX Big Sur 11.6.2 in connection with ICC profile use / printing,

Some users have reported success after updating to Monterey, personally I'd be more likely to go back a version rather than jumping into a new OSX version soon after release.

Sadly this bug appears to still be present in 11.6.3, according to users here who have made that upgrade.

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[Russell Proulx]

Does anyone know if this is a known issue that's currently being addressed by either Adobe or Apple, and what exactly the "apparent bug" is?

Where I teach we're pretty well stuck with Big Sur v11.6.2 (IT a bureaucracies) and are having some success with an Acrobat workflow. Andrew Rodney (hi Andrew) suggested elsewhere that Acrobat and the Adobe Printing Utility were working properly. Unfortunately Adobe ended support for the Printing Utility which was 32-bit and will be not be making a 64-bit version which is required by Catalina and Big Sur.

It's hard to teach a color managed print workflow when the equipment is not working as it should and the results using "the recommended procedure" are wrong.

R

[Russell Proulx]

(I wish there was a way to edit posts to correct typos...  or is there??)

Where I teach we're pretty well stuck with Big Sur v11.6.2 (IT in bureaucracies) and are having some success with an Acrobat workflow. Andrew Rodney (hi Andrew) suggested elsewhere that Acrobat and the Adobe Printing Utility were are working properly. Unfortunately Adobe ended support for the Printing Utility which was is 32-bit and will be not be making a 64-bit version which is required by Catalina and Big Sur.

[NB, colourmanagement]

Hi Russell, have you tried the Adobe Color Print Utility in Catalina and Big Sur? I'm told it works despite seeing unsupported.

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer:: Co-Author:Getting Colour Right
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[Russell Proulx]

We cannot install the Adobe Color Print Utility nor or anything else without IT's cooperation.  But the Apple ColorSync Utility is installed and accessible. Is there any reason why we can't convert to the Epson printer/paper profile in PS and then use the Apple ColorSync Utilit to print it while disabling CM in the printer CM settings?

(sorry it took so long to respond here ... I just recently noticed your reply)

Russell

[TheDigitalDog]

Yes, the CS utility can convert to a profile and it can print without color management.

It isn't intuitive but doable. See: http://digitaldog.net/files/PrintingTargetsCSUtility.pdf

[Russell Proulx]

I meant using Photoshop to convert to the printer/paper utility (Photoshop -> Edit -> Convert to Profile) and then printing a saved TIFF using the CS utility to print. I was unaware that the CS utility has a 'Convert to profile' option? Would there be any benefit doing it there (if it's an option)?

R

[TheDigitalDog]

Yes, either. Convert to Profile in PS and print using the CS utility as outlined in the PDF or, Convert using the CS utility, whatever you prefer. The only difference would be the CMM. If you wish to convert in PS and print without color management in the CS utility, you can do so.

[Russell Proulx]

Thank you for the PDF, Andrew  🙂

After reading it I'm thinking that these are my two options is using the Apple ColorSync Utility:

In PS 'Convert to profile' -> save as Tiff
-> (ColorSync Utility) Hand off to printer
-> (Color Matching) Epson Color Settings -> OFF (No color management)

or

In PS -> save a Tiff in whatever colorspace (sRGB, aRGB, ProPhotoRGB)
-> (ColorSync Utility) Print as Color Target
-> (Color Matching) Other Profiles -> Choose paper/printer profile (if it's listed)

Am I understanding correctly?

Thank you again for your help! It's very appreciated.

Russell

[TheDigitalDog]

Yes, but probably easier to use door number 1 and use ACE for the conversions so you'll have Black Point Compensation.

The less you have to futz with the CS utility, the better.

[Russell Proulx]

Thank you, Andrew :-))

Russell

[Hema23819121lyac]

I upgraded to Mac OS 11.5.2 and between upgrading and the firmware update, it took me a few weeks to figure out that Adobe Photoshop can no longer save files in CMYK format. In order to create print ready PDF files, I had to install an older version of my printer's driver...totally frustrating!

[Bob_Hallam]

I have not seen that happen on any system, so I suspect that this problem is isolated to yours.  

when saving files in CMYK format, what happens?  Do you get an error? What is the error?  Why did you need to change the printer driver? That has nothing to do with photoshop saving files.  

please fill in some info and I can surely help solve this issue for you.  

[NB, colourmanagement]

Hi Hema, so getting this straight: 

'took me a few weeks to figure out that Adobe Photoshop can no longer save files in CMYK format'

you can make a CMYK file in Photoshop but you can't save it?

What happens when you try?

'In order to create print ready PDF files, I had to install an older version of my printer's driver...totally frustrating!'

The print driver doesn’t seem to have much to do with the creation of a print-ready PDF. How do you find it is involved?

When you write 'Print Ready PDF' do you mean 'ready for offset print' or for an inkjet printer? 

Unless you have a *RIP driving an inkjet then it's generally better to send RGB [unless you're looking for a cross rendered proof]. 

*SOME RIPs will drive an inkjet as a CMYK device, on recent printers, though, most RIPs use RGB input, [unless making a cross rendered proof]

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer:: co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management