Adobe's New Upgrade Policy (for CS6)

Report · Nov 09, 2011

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2011/11/adobe-creative-cloud-and-adobe-creative-suite-new-choic... - Posted by DAVID WADHWANI, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER, DIGITAL MEDIA BUSINESS UNIT

Just saw this and I'm speechless. Everyone knows about Muse by now and how they want to charge to continue to use the product and now today Adobe boldly makes this statement:

In order to qualify for upgrade pricing when CS6 releases, customers will need to be on the latest version of our software (either CS5 or CS5.5 editions).

That means no more 3 versions back. Upgrade at every point or buy a new license when you need it again, or pay the subscription model for Adobe "Creative Cloud" for $49.99/month ( $599.88 / year ).

How does everyone else feel about this?

Report · Nov 23, 2011

I think what I have been doing mostly is what Al Sparber alluded to: upgrading only to the extent that it makes sense.

Of course, he has to have the latest versions of all software he does plugins for just to make sure that the P VII plugins continue to work with the latest versions—but he makes that investment back from those who purchase his products.

Here are the reasons for upgrading (for me):

Prior code does not work with the current operating system, which means any new computer will need current code.
Enhancements to the code that make it a "must buy." This means the software needs to increase productivity substantially.

That is pretty much it. I will not upgrade just to get on the "treadmill." Microsoft recently released Office 2011. While it runs great on Intel Macs, I see no need to have a 64-bit spreadsheet (if, indeed it is) and I really do not want to relearn how to use the applications, when pretty much all Microsoft did was tweak the user interface to changes things back to the way it worked in the 2004 version after users complained about the 2008 version.

I have not upgraded to OS X 10.7. I suppose, were I to purchase another Macintosh I might be inclined to, but Apple significantly changed the operating system to redefine how I would work on my computer, and I simply do not have time to waste trying to figure out how to work with the new paradigms. I recognize and acknowledge that Apple has made the upgrade cost cheaper but it will "break" several applications that require Rosetta that I use several times weekly. That violates reason # 2 above, as my productivity would be inversely affected. As I stated, # 1 may override that if I purchase new hardware.

As to Adobe's products. I hung on to Photoshop version 7 until it simply was outpaced (on Intel) by CS3. I still use Photoshop CS3 and it works fine for what I am doing. I have looked at updating to Photoshop CS5.5 because it may offer some enhancements that could save me time but, for now, CS3 is just fine for me, even though I realize it's not a 64-bit application. As a 32-bit app, it's hardly slowing me down on my Mac Pro.

I upgraded to Dreamweaver CS 5.5 because of the HTML5 work being requested of me and because the Live View feature can save me time. As it is, it has helped me design sites with a better eye on details in HTML5.

I think it's useless to panic when one gets these kinds of indications that a software company is going to institute one policy or another. Photoshop costs $700. If the upgrades are $200 per release and I would have upgraded each time Adobe released their new software, I would have spent $600 by now in the upgrades. If it turns out that I cannot upgrade Photoshop CS3 to Photoshop CS6 (whenever that comes out), I will have saved $100 by not upgrading. And, frankly, I could save more than that by continuing to use the very useful CS3 software through Adobe's 6.5 release.

I do not understand the "cloud" subscription model. I do realize that Microsoft decided to float that idea some years ago for their Office Suite, which was, at the time, unreasonably-priced. I thought about it and came to the conclusion that I might, indeed, really need to open a Microsoft Word document some time after my subscription lapsed and the inability to do that was intolerable. I suppose there are accounting reasons why a subscription might be valuable and here are my thoughts about that model (which does not work for me:

It may allow companies who are trying to save on taxes in the US and the UK to show a subscription related to your work.*
It allows companies to purchase a seat on a month-to-month basis and stop the subscriptions in the case of layoffs, increase them in the case of an expansion in their business. Site licensing may be more expensive.

* Please note, I am not an accountant and not qualified to give out tax advice.

So Adobe is reviewing how they sell products now and I'm sure they're trying to maximize income. It remains my hope that Adobe will continue to invest profits in making their applications better. To the extent they don't really, I don't purchase their software upgrades. And I do save money in not doing that.

Report · Nov 23, 2011

Well, I'm not sure what it looks like in all your worlds, and perhaps you're all or mostly in a position to upgrade regularly. But, out here in amateur-land there's already notice of this change. In December the tutorial at at least one of the local photo clubs will be on "Alternatives to Adobe Products for Photographers". They'll be stressing tools like gimp and cost effective alternatives to Lightroom (there's a strong stench that if Adobe's going to screw Photoshop users, they'll screw the Lightroom users next).

How many people will switch, I don't know. But I DO know that a LARGE number of amateur photographers I know, switched from Photoshop to Elements in the CS4, CS5 timeframe. And they AREN'T coming back. So, if Adobe's intention is to "reduce their customer base so they can listen easier", they're being very successful.

For the last 6 years, every time I've had to upgrade PS, and now LR, I"ve said the same thing "What Adobe needs MOST is a strong, devastating competitor with a world-class, cost effective, Adobe-killing photo editor." If they COULDN'T get away with this kind of repugnant behavior 'cause their competition would eat their lunch, they wouldn't try.

Personally, I'm disgusted by the seemingly blatant insult to people that have contributed to the Adobe annuity for years.

Report · Nov 23, 2011

But you don't have to contribute to the Adobe Annuity! That is my point. If you simply upgrade when, for your own workflow, it's pretty much mandatory you save money. My figures consistently show that. If you are having buyers remorse now because you did contribute to the "annuity," then I suppose that's lost money you won't re-find.

But don't do that again.

There are competitors to Adobe products, you know. Instead of Dreamweaver, there is KompoZer. There is also N|vu. Don't like Photoshop? Frankly, a lot of what I do routinely in Photoshop can be reproduced in Photoshop Elements, which is a lot cheaper. And you can download The Gimp for free.

If you are not a professional and you are a student, you may be entitled to a considerable discount on Adobe's applications.

Griping about costs and "Adobe annuities" is just silly. If you are a professional and the Adobe tools are useful, they're paying for themselves.

Report · Nov 23, 2011

No, at this time there aren't worthwile competitors to Photoshop. What PERCENTAGE of seminars are taught for Elements? What PERCENTAGE are taught for "gimp".

If you go to a Bird Festival in Florida, and in addition to shoots there are classroom sessions, what PERCENTAGE are in ANYTHING BUT Photoshop.

Sure, if you want to be out there in the wilderness trying to ferret out answers every time you have a problem in gimp, that's fine. But, at PRESENT, it's not a worthwhile

substitute for Photoshop. Elements is fine. And yeah, Paintshop Pro is still out there staggering around. There may even be as many books per decade for PSP or

gimp as are created in a month for Photoshop. And about as many seminars, workshops, classes, and tutorials.

So, arguing about buyers remorse and not contributing to the annuity is just specious. At PRESENT, they're the 800 pound gorilla, and virtually anybody that's serious

about image processing or graphic arts is using one or the other Adobe product.

And with this policy, that will change. More Elements. Lots more gimp. Lots more people not tied to Adobe. And a WHOLE LOT more illegal copies floating around.

As far as "silly". Just like the Occupy Wallstreet people, there's nothing silly (ok, they're pretty silly, but that's a different discussion) about registering a protest against

a policy that is such a blatant insult to your customers.

Personally, it doesn't affect me a lot. I've got 5. I'll likely get 6 'cause I teach Photoshop. But I know of a half dozen amateur photographers that update every other

version or even every third version, and they're furious. They'll either stop upgrading, go with competing products (I expect the PSP people to do some kind of big

push to increase their customer base at Adobe's expense), or get illegal copies.

So, mhollis55, you may be a sufficiently high-priced professional that you can claim "the Adobe tools are useful, they're paying for themselves", but for most amateurs,

they aren't. They buy and use the tools because they like them and/or can get training in them. But, this change may very well unlock them from Adobe. As I said,

it'll be starting soon - here, in December when "alternatives to Adobe" starts getting shown.

Report · Nov 23, 2011

Dave, I just cannot get all that angry at Adobe. There are other, better things to get angry about.

I don't upgrade with every release. I only just upgraded Dreamweaver from CS3 to CS5.5. Haven't upgraded Photoshop from CS3. If their policy says I must either buy an entire suite or purchase the applications at full price then I will do that. I think I have saved money.

If you are teaching, you are making money from frequent upgrades. I'm not making so much from Photoshop that I can afford to upgrade. I am from Dremweaver.

And Adobe is an 800 pound gorilla, but I honestly believe The Gimp has a viable community out there. Heck, I have a friend who works with me on websites and he's using TextWrangler, an open-source plain text editor. Live view or Design view? Well that's in his web browser. And Firefox allows him to see his divs with their plugins.

If someone sees a chink in Adobe's armor and takes advantage of it, we'll all win.

As to the Occupy movement, I deeply admire their willingness to peacefully gather.

Report · Nov 23, 2011

Hi,

I did not followed all this stupid "evolutions" using still the full CS4 package.

Is it means Adobe is intend to put the CS6 on the market already ?

My goodness, when i'm thinking on ALL the very usefull applications they "finisht" ...

Remember: Streamline >> Dimensions >>Type Manager >> Live Motion ....and so on !

In the past, the customer was KING !

Today...the customer is a SLAVE !

Report · Nov 23, 2011

Well, I think I'm about to put Adobe in the same classification as I did Autodesk in 2002. I stopped sucking up to Autodesk after Autocad 2000 was released and have not upgraded since and have no intentions to upgrade with them. I can design homes, buildings or whatever I get a call for in 2000. A line is a line and a dimension is a dimension and it doesn't take several thousand bucks a year in upgrades to make them work together. Everyone in my office that runs cad uses Windows 2000 Pro or XP, some on new computers with a fresh install of XP so pocka to Autodesk.
None of us certainly care not to have to learn all the new peeps in programs already with intense learning curves.

Everyone in my office that uses PS can still do whatever they need to do in earlier versions even though we have cs5.5. I feel like that was a waste of money because most still use cs3 and two still use PS 7.0 and refuse to change and I'm certainly not going to make them change as long as it works for them. Everyone also has PSP and loves it so I'll upgrade that for anyone of them that think she wants or needs the upgrade.
I doubt very seriously we'll upgrade PS anymore unless some super changes are made in it that works for us.

I understand many people having to use, or think they have to use, PS so I certainly hope it's paying off for them.

I'm sure the hackers are lining up if and when PS makes their new move on all of their dedicated users and customers.

We're now using Expression Web much more than DW and have no intentions of upgrading anymore DW. At the last developers meeting we were in we were told EW is fast catching up to DW and will probably overtake it. EW is a lot cheaper than DW and so far all the upgrades have been free but we buy the disk so we can more or less control our destiny if an upgrade is buggy. Our 13 year old daughter walked in the door last week with herself a new EW4 Academic version for $24.00....not seen anything like that with DW. We still have many client sites in DW so we'll continue to use the versions we have and will continue to use DW for certain applications that DW is good at.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Report · Nov 23, 2011

Everyone also has PSP and loves it so I'll upgrade that for anyone of them that think she wants or needs the upgrade.

I doubt very seriously we'll upgrade PS anymore unless some super changes are made in it that works for us.

Perfect. And if the price is exhorbitant, it'll be that much easier not to upgrade. I haven't used PSP in a long time, but this is sure an opportunity for them. I hope they make the most of it.

As with, in my belief, any company that makes a decision like this one, they'll only respond to damage to their bottom line. And if enough people refuse to upgrade or get hacked copies or go to PSP or even gimp, Adobe will eventually suffer enough damage that they rescind this ridiculous effort.

Actually, I'm still wondering how real this is. We've all seen politicians and companies pull this kind of garbage before. They have some PR flack or expendable executive throw out some kind of idiotic statement of change, and sit back to see how much screaming there is. If not much, they go ahead and turn the screws. If there's a lot, and they end up looking like the thieving, money-grubbing, scumbags they are, it quietly get rescinded and supposedly the flack or expendable exec gets a lower bonus...

So, is it real, or is it just another trial balloon?

Report · Nov 24, 2011

Congratulations for your logical behaviour !

I'm an independant consultant engineer, devoted to Vision systems Integration, and use the CS4 package with great satisfaction.

No need to upgrate at all !

I can realize all i havte to with CS4, so why should i upgrate ? to spend hours and weeks to understand the new "obsolete" stuff ?

Report · Jan 11, 2012

Some significant news just out that should make older customers happy on this topic

Adobe Listens, Postpones Changes to CS6 Upgrade Policy — CS3 & CS4 on Track

So good news as it should be returning now to the previous plan for the rest of this year.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

So how does this about face affect those who took advantage of last year's 20% off discount offer to upgrade to CS5.5 (which they may not have really needed) by 31 Dec 2011 in order to be ready for CS6, because they felt that Adobe had put a gun to their head with the ill-timed introduction of the new one-version-back policy?

Refunds available?

Report · Jan 11, 2012

I'm in the same boat as you, John. I only upgraded to 5.5 from 4 because of the policy announcement + discount. I don't think 5.5 bought me that much, if anything, that I needed, but wanted to be able to u/g to CS6 if its features warranted. I hope we can get some sort of adjustment, but I rather doubt it.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

John, Gordon,

AFAIK Adobe hasn't said anything particular about that today, but generally-speaking the company does have a money-back Refund and Return Policy (even if you bought from elsewhere), if that's something you wanted to consider.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

Gordon, PDT,

I'm not actually in the felt-forced-to-upgrade-to-CS5.5-in-2011 camp. I happily use CS5 and I've no intentions of upgrading to CS5.5 which offers me nothing for my workflow.

I'm just thinking of those that are.

Adobe's reversals of ill-conceived, ill-timed policy changes invariably get widely applauded but there's always collateral damage to those who do the right thing in the midst of it which few recognise - and there's never a refund.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

Hey John, actually there should be a refund available under regular policy for purchases within the past 30 days - that's normal.

Also don't forget their tiered upgrade pricing whereby customers on more recent versions will pay less to upgrade to CS6 than those on older versions - meaning any outlay to get to CS5.5 would not be wasted but rather stepped closer.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

Also don't forget their tiered upgrade pricing whereby customers on more recent versions will pay less to upgrade to CS6 than those on older versions - meaning any outlay to get to CS5.5 would not be wasted but rather stepped closer.

Yes, that's a fair point.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

I was devastated by this news.

I am not a pro user but a serious hobbyist. I'll never recover the outlay for Adobe software. I started with just PS, then went GoLive and moved on to Creative Suite. I have been through three versions of that. Everytime I have ever purchased or upgraded it has always been a difficult decision to manage family/hobby commitments. I deleiberately skipped CS5 and the ambiguity of CS5.5 and have been regularly pondering the costs of CS6. Now sadly, I think Adobe has priced me out.

Martin

Report · Jan 11, 2012

Which news are you devastated by?

The original announcement of the new one version back policy starting with the CS6 upgrade cycle?

Or the new announcement that the introduction of the new one version back policy has been deferred until 31 Dec 2012? i.e. CS3 and CS4 customers have until 31 Dec 2012 to upgrade to CS6, after which one-version-back kicks in.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

My wife frequently reminds not to confuse mere management ignorance and stupidity for actual maliciousness.

But, in this case, I've got to believe some avaricious, greedy, scumbag in a 3-piece suite on the executive floor at Adobe came up with this idea. And it got dumped on the user community with the spin that it would SOMEHOW be good for all of us... And when the screaming got loud enough that some bean counter postulated what it might cost in lost sales, lost good will, and user dissatisfaction, the whole thing was rescinded with yet more spin that "look how wonderful we are, we listened to you... We're STILL going to do this, but we'll wait a year."

Those that upgraded because of Adobe's coersion should rightfully be angry. And I suspect there will STILL be a lot of users that have now reconsidered just how much the NEED the upgrade from whatever version they're using to CS6. No matter what they do, Adobe just looks like a greedy 800 pound gorilla.

But, in deference to my wife, maybe it was just corporate stupidity, not true malice.

Report · Jan 11, 2012

I don't disasgree.

The conception and, especially, the implementation of this new policy has been a spectacular misstep by Adobe from start to finish in my eyes.

The unprecedented Open Letter from Scott Kelby of the NAPP highlighted this in big red letters in the sky.

It can only satisfy the shareholders - definitely not the end users, whatever spin is put on it.

But, it's not going away. It'll just be deferred.

That's the only glimmer of "good" news I see in this latest about turn.

But user dissatisfaction has definitely set in. Adobe has the upper hand while Adobe produces excellent products which everyone wants but they're unwisely abusing their market position. Presently, we all try to find the money in each upgrade cycle and Adobe pricing policies regularly receive intense analysis for fairness. But if a competitor emerges who can do to Adobe what Adobe did (with Indesign) to Quark and penetrate their market, then the rules may change again in the users' favour.

Report · Jan 18, 2012

I am one of those people who are extremely upset that they forced me to buy an upgrade (that i never wanted or needed) then say "oh, BTW you didn't have to upgrade, you're welcome" Nice attitude, but i'm not buying it. They had this plan in motion for some time, but figured the backlash for people who shelled out the money wouldn't be enoough of a concern to wrorry about it. Then they would look good in front of people who wanted the change. It's all BS IMO.

Adobe has yet to understand my concerns with CS5 photoshop not working correctly. They sent me the wrong version, refunded, sent another version and now claim they won't help because they refunded me for a version that I don't even have anymore. Hours on the phone, hours on chat, hours online in forums and still not one of my concerns addressed. I fill out the form to get a "call back" from adobe and after three appointments set up, NO CALLS! so i'm just wasting my time.

PLEASE people keep telling adobe how bad they are at customer service and maybe they will start to listen. I have a product I never wanted, that is not working correctly and no real help from Adobe.

Report · Jan 18, 2012

Bunch of tossers!

Report · Jan 18, 2012

I am one of those people who are extremely upset that they forced me to buy an upgrade (that i never wanted or needed) then say "oh, BTW you didn't have to upgrade, you're welcome"

Paul, nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade. Let's be rational here.

Adobe's policy, in a word, sucked. They recognized it was bad. They changed it. I am currently using Photoshop CS3 because I do a lot of scanning and the upgrades of Photoshop do not use TWAIN and do not support in-application scanning (by the way, Adobe's Acrobat Pro does support in-app scanning, so if Adobe were to just borrow a couple of software engineers from them for a month or so, they could write something up just great for Photoshop). So I dd not upgrade Photoshop.

I can get the full version of CS 5 Extended for just south of $300 if I do a search for the software. Upgrade pricing is right around $150 consistently if you are one level down. I would have spent $300 had I upgraded to CS4 and then CS5 and, if I upgraded before any discounts were available, I would have spent more than $300. Assuming I could get CS6 (which is, at this writing not released), my price would, if I was doing the upgrade mill routine be $450 to keep the current version of Photoshop. Certainly, within six months of its release, I would be able to buy a full version of Photoshop CS6 for around $300, saving $150 in the process.

Here is the lesson: Buy what you need and don't be controlled by external influences.

Adobe would love for everyone to pay them continually to keep developing their software. Development is expensive—everyone knows that. So Adobe is going to set pricing and everything else to maximize returns. Assume that.

Here is what you get (assuming you are in business in the United States) if you upgrade every cycle:

You may be able to get a regular tax deduction for the business investment. So you may reduce your taxes by upgrading. Adobe gets the money and Uncle Sam gets less.
You get a cheaper upgrade price, but we have all ready seen that it may not be cheaper if you hang on to what you have for a little longer and buy the full version every three versions.
You get to use the new tools (if Adobe does put new tools into the software—and many times they don't).

Here is what you get if you don't upgrade every cycle:

No tax deduction—but no outlay for the upgrade, either.
Software that you know, which means you do not have to adapt your workflow.
If you wait for three upgrades, there is a substantial savings if you buy full versions instead of upgrade versions.
No need to upgrade your computer because the new software doesn't run on your older hardware.

So take your pick and make smart business decisions that work for you and are not influenced by any other company. And realize that, unless someone is holding a gun to your head, nobody is forcing you to do anything.

Report · Jan 18, 2012

Paul, nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade. Let's be rational here.

They most certainly held a virtual gun when they told me outright that" if i wanted to upgrade to CS6 or future version of Photoshop, i had to buy cs5!" That is the equivalent of a "virtual: gun in my opinion. How can you say it is not? It's a do this or you can't do that situation is it not? then for them to say oh, never mind you don't have to buy this, to upgrade to that, which was them LYING to the customers.

I also don't believe they did this because of the customer backlash to the policy. They had to have something like this planned ahead of time. If you were not forced to buy a product that one , you didn't want, 2nd still doesn't work on my machine, and third -you can't get ANY customer service to help you with the program working correctly or getting credit towards CS6, then you really don't have a leg to stand on. Talk to me when you spend hours on the phone trying to get a program to work that you were forced to buy.

Report · Jan 18, 2012

OK, here is what you just did, Paul. You read the first part of my statement, got angry and replied.

Read the second part of my statement. That would be the part about saving money if you do not upgrade and, instead, buy new copies of the software outright.

You seem to think that you have to upgrade for some reason or another. If it does not make any business sense, if the improvements in the Adobe applications (or anyone's applications, for that matter) don't suit you, are incremental, aren't enough to upgrade, etc., ignore the policy statements that suggest an upgrade is "necessary" because of some corporate policy. All corporate policies are subject to change.

Here is what happened:

Adobe releases a statement that says people will have no upgrade path if their software is too old.
Everyone starts looking for alternatives.
The magazines publish reviews for some of the alternatives because there is a certain amount of pressure for them to do so (usually generated by the initial statement).
Adobe thought better of the policy and changed it.

You thought you were trapped, somehow, when you actually were not.

You feel mishandled by Adobe.

Hopefully, you have learned a good business lesson.

Life goes on.

Adobe Community

Adobe's New Upgrade Policy (for CS6)