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Data tools stink in Dreamweaver

Guest
Jan 15, 2013 Jan 15, 2013

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OK - so I have elicited help from this forum on a number of occasions.  I have found the responses to be wonderfully helpful and I was able to complete what I was trying to do.  I wanted to share something here about some things I learned:

1.  When I built a page using Recordsets, or complicated variables, if I made a mistake or forgot something and had to go back, Dreamweaver almost invariably created an error in the code.  If I had to change a Recordset in any way, it usually created some kind of error - I am talking about using the DW Recordset tools to modify the query.  It wasn't consistent enough to point what changes caused problems, but it was consistent enough to make me draw the conclusion that there is something wrong with DW data tools.  (See this exchange from my previous post note comments about data tools in DW).

2.  I know now, never ever manually insert code into the Recordset code generated by DW.  Once you do that, the Recordset disappears from the Bindings list.

3.  The only solution that I could come up with is to work with DW until you think you got it right, and keep track and make note all of the correct steps. Go ahead and make mistakes, then once you think the page is right, recreate the page from a new file and  DO NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES in the process of creating the page. Follow your step by step guide.  Do not change anything, do not delete any recordsets or variables....etc.

So, now that I have said all of that I have a problem.

I got my website to work.  I have created a page to register people for a class, then hand data in POST to our credit card service provider.  I can create a page, echo the variables and everything works fine - all the variables come through without a problem.  Unfortunately my service provider tells me the variables are NOT coming through to their website.  When we experienced this problem, they provided a link to a website tool,  that lists all the variables being handed off, and all the variables are fine in that tool, unfortunately, when we test the live version, only some of the variables are coming through.  The testing tool and the live site are on the same server.

Imagine -  I ran all the tests and it all looks and works great, but now this happens.  I have tried recreating the page from scratch - same thing.  How the heck would you test anything when it all works fine?  I can hand off the data to another DW page, but when I send it outside to our providers website - no data.  But ONLY when I send the data live. When I send it to our providers website using the testing tool its fine.  If anyone has any advice here I am open to suggestions.

So I cannot honestly say that it is DW that is the problem here, but after all I have been through, yikes Adobe.  

Hey Adobe:  I used to be the Project Manager for your 1st level tech support (PageMaker, PShop, etc.) in Seattle.  I used to LOVE Adobe!  I used to be in the Adobe cult.  After this experience, my view is so tarnished now. Help me to understand why you would produce a product with such crap????????

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Explorer ,
Jan 16, 2013 Jan 16, 2013

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Fortunately, if you think the data tools stink,  you can completely ignore the DW data tools and simply write your own PHP and MySQL code.

There are several reasons to write your own code and NEVER use DW generated code:

1. Your code will be more terse and humanly understandable.

2. You can use the PDO or MySQLi database extensions, instead of the mysql extension, which no one should be using any longer.

3. You will be able to organize your code in meaningful ways and share code blocks across projects more easily.

4. You will comprehend your own code instead of just wildly trusting Adobe to do your thinking for you.

OBSERVATION:

When people who write their own code ask a forum quesiton, the will include a small amount of code to exibit where the problem lies, but when people who use data tools post a forum question, they post hundreds of lines of code that have nothing to do with the issue. Why? Because the poster has only a vague understanding of the code and hasn't got a clue where the problem is. Invariably, if someone doesn't have a very clear understanding of the code, they will get into big trouble.

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Guest
Jan 16, 2013 Jan 16, 2013

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My beef at this point is how DW is marketed.   Though my coding skills are more than 20 years old, I am certainly not a newbie.  I would never recommend any Adobe product to a complete novice. 

In deciding how to create our new website, I read reviews and marketing materials and was led to believe that DW was the perfect tool for me.  It was only until I bought the book for DW "The Missing Manual" that I found out about how lacking the coding tools are.

When I have raised these points before, I have felt that many out there believe that people without the appropriate skills should not be web designing. 

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LEGEND ,
Jan 16, 2013 Jan 16, 2013

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c.a.logan wrote:

When I have raised these points before, I have felt that many out there believe that people without the appropriate skills should not be web designing. 

Hi

Dreamweaver is aimed at the web professional, and as a professional one should have the appropriate skills to match what is required.

Yes, everyone has to learn, but no one is a professional until they have learned the skill(s) be these html, css, javascript, php, C#, sql, or graphic design, and knowing ones limitations or when to ask for help, is also part of being a professional.

PZ

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Explorer ,
Jan 16, 2013 Jan 16, 2013

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c.a.logan wrote:

When I have raised these points before, I have felt that many out there believe that people without the appropriate skills should not be web designing.

The appropriate skills have evolved enormously over the past ten years and more and more often websites are built by teams--not individuals. An e-commerce site that includes dynamically generated content and AJAX is far out of the reach of a novice.

I don't really view DW as a professional level tool in the same way as, say Zend Studio. All those Spry and data wizards are not targeting pros, but amateurs. DW is actually a pretty accessible tool for a beginner. . . as long as he or she doesn't aim beyond his/her reach.

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Participant ,
Jan 18, 2013 Jan 18, 2013

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I also have discovered that if you ever need to modify, for any reason, requirements of the record set or server behavior, that everything goes all squirrely and the ONLY option is to start over.  Extremely frustrating!  I've been trying to get a delete data page return to the data display it came from - to show the user that the record actually got deleted, and to allow them to delete or edit another record.  Not possible - we can return to the correct page, but absolutely CANNOT utilize a parameter to display the appropriate data when you get there.  Tedious for the user, who has to select the data he's interested in; select the record to delete; confirm the deletion, and then go back to a top-of-file display to select a subset again! 

In all the testing I've done, on my delete selection page there are now (how? why?) 2 server behaviors with the same name.  I cannot delete or rename either one.  When the page loads, I get a message saying the server cannot distinguish between the two behaviors, and one should be changed.   I'd just love to!  Not possible....

Apparently Dreamweaver really is only for the team-development model with different people having skill sets to get the job done.  I'm a one-man band for a church, and hit brick walls when I try to provide tools for the end user to do editing of data.

For years I did non-Web data app development using Delphi.  I don't recall EVER getting stuck because of bugs with the tools!  I thought I was getting that caliber product with Dreamweaver, and the ease of development is similar - UNTIL there's a problem and editing needs to be done.

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Explorer ,
Jan 18, 2013 Jan 18, 2013

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Apparently Dreamweaver really is only for the team-development model with different people having skill sets to get the job done.

No, it's the web that has become more complex and specialized. It isn't Dreamweaver's fault. And this is a wonderful thing because over twelve years ago, when most sites were not dynamic and were not created by teams of professionals, the web was awlful! Really very very awful!

I think that with Dreamweaver, Adobe has in fact given people a tool to create pretty nice websites all by themselves. But if you are going to put a database behind your website, then you really must acquire the necessary programming skills to use it.

So I think the mistake Adobe made was t give people just enough rope to hang themselves with. I think they should never had even provided the database tools.

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Participant ,
Jan 18, 2013 Jan 18, 2013

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Tell me what I need to learn! Is it JavaScript? I have written database applications for years - I can handle the database, it's the coding that's confusing me. Is it possible to write procedures that can be called (& reused?)? How do I code the back-end processing? I'm willing to study and learn - WHAT!

Gail

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Explorer ,
Jan 18, 2013 Jan 18, 2013

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If you already have experience writing database SQL scripts, then you certainly do have a good start. And if you have not written SQL, then just understanding the logic is a good start.

What you need to learn then is PHP, not so much JavaScript. Try the book PHP Solutions by David Powers. It's not the book I started with. It's the book I WISH I had started with.

Javascript is also good to know, but PHP is the back-end processing.

Is it possible to write procedures that can be called (& reused?)?

Yes, but they are called functions, not procedures. PHP also has Object Oriented features, which is like functions on steroids.

You can download several different free packages of MySQL/PHP/Apache Server. I think most people (on Windows) use XAMPP, but I like Zend Server Community Edition a little better.

Your web server probably has PHPMyAdmin installed for working with your database, and XAMP and ZSCC both come with PHPMyAdmin, but there are other options for managing your database, some of them free, such as HeidiSQL and MySQL workbench.

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Participant ,
Jan 18, 2013 Jan 18, 2013

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Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Gail

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Participant ,
Jan 19, 2013 Jan 19, 2013

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I have ordered the book you recommend. I developed a series of pages. Admin login -> selection of data to edit -> display of data permitting add/edit/delete. With delete, a confirmation page. After delete, I want to return to the display so the user can verify the record is gone. This involves moving to the display page AND sending a variable to indicate which data to display. After add or edit, all is well because we go straight back to display. After delete, I just can't get there. We've gone from display to confirmation, which performs the delete. The Dreamweaver code for delete is so confusing I cannot modify it, but I'm then stuck on the confirmation page.

I cannot find in the books I have a way to jump to another page using PHP, and cannot determine in the Dreamweaver code what is actually causing the move.

Thanks,

Gail

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2013 Jan 19, 2013

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Firstly, don't write your code so that you actually move from one page (file) to another. Most of the websites I build have just one "page" although to the visitor, it looks like there are many pages. That one "page" contains a lot of conditionals to determine what the visitor will be presented with. It may take a while before you can refine your coding to the point of a single "page" but get your mind around the idea that what the visitors sees as a page, doesn't necessarily have to be a new file.

So for instance, if you have presented the user with a list of records, and you want to give them the opportunity to delete records, you can go through the whole process in that same file. There are many ways to do this. The best way is  to use AJAX, but it can also be done with just PHP.

PHP cannot redirect from one script to another after anything has been sent to the browser. You can have many lines of computer code before the the redirect, but once anything, even just a <html> tag has been sent, you can't redirect using PHP. That being said, the method of redirecting using PHP is like this:

header('Location:../index.php');

die();

With Javascript, you can redirect at any point. the code is similar but I'm not going to show it here.

So using PHP, what you would do is put code like this at the very top of the script:

if (is_numeric ($_GET['confirmed'])){  //check if the GET variable confirmed has been populated (because someone clicked a "confirm delete" link

$id=$_GET['confirmed']; //just to convert the GET variable to a local variable

if ($dbh->exec("DELETE FROM mytable WHERE id='$id'")){ //this code performs the delete, and also, if the delete was successful, redirects to the index.php page.

header('Location:../index.php');

die(); //this makes sure the current script stops running.

} else {

$message = "woops! Didn't work."; //if the delete didn't work, the variable message is loaded;

}}

Since you have not studied PHP yet, there is a lot in this example that you won't understand, though I provided comments to explain the logic

Anyway, I would not redirect to a different page, as the example does, but would simply refresh the existng script. The whole record list, delete, confirm, and return process would be done in the same script.

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Participant ,
Jan 19, 2013 Jan 19, 2013

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That would certainly make life much simpler. I'm going to have to rethink a lot and do some testing. I'd love for a user to be able to add, edit, delete records until they're finished with editing. I do have "PHP, MySQL, & JavaScript" by Robin Nixon, and have not spent much time with it. I've looked through it and will try some examples. Since I am a coder from way back with multiple languages, being able to write my own code and control the processing would be real freedom! I'm anxious to get (RE)started.

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