Dreamweaver CC or WordPress?

[johnd59898678]

I am wondering if maybe I cannt see the forest for the trees?

I have built several sites with SiteGrinder in the past. Then I switched over to DW a couple years ago. Now I keep getting client requests to build their sites in WordPress. This is a new trend I am seeing from more and more clients - they do not just specify the creative work they want done, but they hand me the brush and the bucket too!. Until recently I never had clients demand that I use a particular software package to accomplish a goal and I have been doing this for 25 years!

I get that with WordPress they could reserach template examples on their own to get an idea of what they want up front and that would be a plus, but so far they want me to do that reserach as well. They give me like 10 WordPress sites that they like, but they have nothing style or function-wise in common that I can decipher - so they maight as well send me nothing.

My questions are:

- Is anyone else being forced into WordPress over Dreamweaver?

- Is WordPress a better place to spend my time moving forward as far as website creation for clients due to all the templates, widgets, etc.?

- Are there any "advantages" left choosing DW vs WordPress for new sites?

Thanks for any direction as I work alone and don't have the advantage of a collaborative environment in-house.

[osgood_]

I'll give you my opinion:

I  have never got on with Wordpress because it takes the control away from you. Unless I knew Wordpress inside out, up and down and back to front I could never offer a client a service which involved Wordpress. It relies on too many widgets that you as a developer have zero idea of how they work. If a client comes back and says can you alter that slightly the answer, unless you are a php genius, is NO.

Security upgrades are regular and widgets do not always work going forward so your website could stop working. Again unless you have a deep knowledge of Wordpress it would be hard to fix and most likely send you into a panic.

The user interface is overbloated with options that most clients would never use or need. So if you don't hide these options the client has a free door to bugger up the website completely.

In my opinion Wordpress swings RADICALLY both ways. It's either for the inexperienced or lazy who can live with a badly designed site BUT they can update it themselves or its for highly experienced php professionals who can make it sing and dance. If you're somewhere in between forget it in favour of a more simpler CMS.

You're right I do see a lot of so called web developers offering Wordpress as a service but I also read that they will not change the template radically....so usually the client is stuck with a one size fits all.....which in all the years I've been a creative has never happened.

I've managed to get to grips with most things css, php, mobile design, a bit of jQuery, writting my own CMS etc BUT Wordpress I guess I just don't have the desrire to entertain it as my main tool for building websites.

[Ben M]

Being forced into Wordpress over Dreamweaver is like being handed the keys to a car and being asked to drive down 2 intersecting roads heading in the same direction to a destination.  Dreamweaver is an code editing tool for the web.  Wordpress is a content management system (CMS) that gives users a front-end system to edit with.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, I would find a developer hard pressed to say they work in Wordpress and use nothing else to help them code the template or layout of the pages.

Here's a better question.  Why do you feel you need to use one or the other and not both?

[johnd59898678]

Thanks for all the feedback so far from everyone.

To answer your question, I am trying to avoid getting in to WordPress. I dabbled in one WordPress site a couple years ago for a new client and I found that I was burried in Tech Support calls from that client "How do 'I' do this and that, etc." With the FLASH and DW based sites I built, if a client calls it is usually to pay me to make a change, not 100 questions about how they can "take over" now. I get why they would want to do that, but I am afraid of clients that are too lazy to pick out a template and build it on their own if they want so much control because if anything goes wrong, they seem to want me to fix it for free.

My feelings so far coincide with Osgood that WP is for someone who does not want to get into web development or for someone who has the time/inclination to master WP. I fall somewhere in between. I have bult about 30 websites for clients so far, but it is not the only thing I do. If I billed myself as a Web "Developer/Expert", I am sure I would have to deal with WP in a big way (may be forced into it anyway). I just know the ongoing time commitment it will take and I would rather spend that time honing my DW skills if given the choice.

I have never done a "BLOG" site. I know they are really popular and only going to get more popular, but to be honest, I have never read a Blog in my life (more than one or two posts) - except for Tech Forums like this. I just don't get them anymore than I do Facebook. I just can't imagine having the time to read through never ending chronological diaries of what someone did or is doing all day, much less "follow" them! My Brother has a really nice Blog - to me it is like his own Facebook page. He is always asking me if I have read it - I always say "No, why would I do that?" I have to work for a living and the last thing I have an interest in is what someone else did today or look at pictures of their new shoes. So when clients mention that they want a Blog, I always ask them "why"? I have not heard a compelling reason yet - so I usually send those clients down the road. Now if they were a "News" organization, "Political" org, "Celebrity" and the like (i.e. already had a following), I could see the value in Blogs, Facebook, Twitter, and all these other Social Media platforms (I have never used any). The sites I have built generate income and I have a number of clients that have insisted on adding Social Media icons to their sites so that they can add their daily outcry - so far all of them have been a total waste of time and effort for those clients - I think they are just lonely? Even the commercial sites I am interested in - some have blogs with new announcements of products and the like - I just don't see the need for this never ending chronological list of past announcements to do through. I guess if I ever see what other people see then WP may be the answer to the Blog requirement (over a DW solution).

[Nancy OShea]

I love CSS Tricks & Smashing Magazine both of which run on WP.

http://css-tricks.com/

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/

When I need a new recipe, I look to blogs -- there's tons of them and some are very good.  But I totally get what you mean about personal blogs.  Unless you have something interesting to share with the world, what's the point?

Nancy O.

[Rick Gerard]

Here's my humble opinion. Learn CSS and PHP or another programming language. I manage a site with thousands of members, some of which have content editing permissions, others who have site admin permissions, others who are membership records clerks, others that write articles, others that edit and approve for publication. We manage rotating ads, slide shows, member reels and profiles (each member can edit their own) and have the site fairly well protected from hacking and completely, so far, protected from spambots. Not including my jquery files the entire site has 3 different php pages that act as containers for content, pop-ups, and forms, 6 style sheets, and 22 admin pages used to create pages, upload images and files, manage the membership, collect dues, and post resume's and reels for members. As of today the 3 container pages are publishing 187pages of content.

Compare that with a typical Wordpress site with several thousand files, api's from who knows who and who knows when they will be updated, and a very public structure that hackers intent on getting into your site have full public access to because Wordpress is open source and available to anyone.

Is that enough said? A dynamic, easy to update, easy to maintain database driven site is relatively easy to build and protect in PHP (that's what they used to build Facebook), jquery has a zillion tools and effects that you can use, and wizziwig editing for online content editing is easy. A wizziwig editor is what I am using to write this post.

If a client insists on a Wordpress site I turn the job down because, ultimately, they will hold you as the web designer, responsible and you have NO control over the Wordpress back end. Clients ask for out of the box CMS sites because they have not thought through the project or they want a site that anyone can be brought in to edit and manage.

On that last point, anyone with a general knowledge of PHP and CSS (iow a web professional) could take over any of the sites that I have built in the last several years. A 10 year old could take over a Wordpress site.

[mytaxsite]

If you have the ability and tenacity to learn a software on your own then you could try Eclipse to develop static as well as dynamic websites. It is free and updated constantly for new developments in Web Technology.

<http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/sse/

[Nancy OShea]

@mytaxsite,

Have you tried CodeIgniter yet?

http://ellislab.com/codeigniter

Build a CMS in CodeIgniter:

https://tutsplus.com/course/build-a-cms-in-codeigniter/

Nancy O.

[Nancy OShea]

Clients want more control over their content editing. Unfortunately, WP is ubiquitous and often used interchangeably with CMS or Blog.    Not all CMSs or blogs are built on WP.  But many are, so client's  say "I want a WP site,"  not realizing there are  alternatives. 

I was initially impressed by all you could do with WP out of the box.  And I admit it can save developers many hours of manual coding and backend development time.  But WP core code is complex -- about 800 php files in some 80 folders.  None of those files contain any real pages either. They're all just code fragments.  So if things break, it can take an exhaustive code search to find the culprit.

You can use DW to customize the WP Theme files but once WP is deployed on the server, you must use the online dashboard to edit content.  Clients like it because it's simple to use and doesn't require them to purchase standalone software like DW or Contribute. 

That said, WP is not plug-n-play and walk away.  You as the developer need to ensure the site is secure and that MySql databases & PHP files are regularly backed-up in case the site ever goes down.  To that end, you must upgrade the WP files, Themes and Plugins at each cycle for security reasons.  And as Osgood said, upgrades don't always go smoothly.  Themes & Plugins are not always compatible with the latest WP upgrades.  A good deal of  trial & error is necessary to marry the right Themes & Plugins with your current versions of WP.

I could go on an on but I'll cut to the chase and simply tell you that after maintaining a WP site for over a year, I grew to hate it.  I no longer use WP for any of my projects.  

Nancy O.

[Rob jones]

Most clients would appreciate WordPress over Dreamweaver because of the ease factor. You have to think about this day in age where everyone wants the easy way out. There are some clients who would prefer a Dreamweaver site such as the ones with a little coding knowledge, but once again most have been influenced by the hype surrounding WordPress.

[RCFallis · Accepted solution]

Three years now into the future have you answered your own questions. An old post with the same questions are still be raised.

My answers to your and the new crowd with he same questions.

1. Is anyone else being forced into WordPress over Dreamweaver? YES
It depends on the Host. Several (Not Nearly All) are offering WP-WordPress site building and Hosting Services to the newcomers offering predefined templates with a host of widgets and plugins at their fingertips. This is what I call, "Today's FrontPage is WordPress For Dummies." Anyone who can handle the drama and learning curve of restricted choice can manage WP. But when it comes to the tricky and creative gizmos no competition for Dreamweaver.

2. Is WordPress a better place to spend my time moving forward as far as website creation for clients due to all the templates, widgets, etc.? NO. Only if you have given up your sales initiative. Clients demand specific things going into their site and brand and they want to be different. The only similar thing they ask for is the best site security. WP knows this and offers a customized package. Once securely in the WP Family they will require seasoned WP help professional due to limitations of their personal dreams and ambitions exceeding the basic WP. Pin Point Design, Customization and above all else, "Security" can only be had with pacific design code tailored to fit. Otherwise you will need to stick with the WP page design and codes to go with it. WP has captured a share of the market, but its not a majority.

3. Are there any "advantages" left choosing DW vs WordPress for new sites? YES. Simple and Easy is the choice of build your own site startups Vs Complex, Extremely Defined Capable of Endless Solutions to Complex Equations Business Websites. Sell Yourself. Make the difficult look easy.