Dreamweaver CS6 and Contribute

[lisztdesign]

I have spoke with several Adobe customer care reps and tech support. NONE of them have been able to answer even the most basic questions about the new Adobe Creative Cloud and how the newest software (including Muse) impacts web designer/developers who have web projects that are delivered to clients.

Here's the issue:

I create websites in Dreamweaver and have trained my clients to use Adobe Contribute to maintain the content on their sites. This has been working very well for a long time.

I recently signed up with Creative Cloud and am starting to use the new CS6 products (Dreamweaver CS6, etc.). But there is no Contribute CS6.

When I called to ask, I was told that "Contribute is being dropped and will be replaced with Muse." I was also told that any NEW sites I create with Dreamweaver CS6 will not work with clients using Contribute CS5 (or 4 or 3). So now what?!?!

One tech support person suggested that I "give all of your new clients your login/password to your Cloud account" so that they'll be able to use MUSE to update their new sites. When I asked about security, and whether with my credentials they would have access to ALL of my content in the cloud, including other client work, they said YES. (Is this just about the most stupid suggestion you've heard?!)

This is confusing at best, and here's why:

• Currently my clients pay between $10-$20/month to pay for hosting on their existing sites; new clients will likely pay the same.
• Previously they would simply *purchase* Contribute which would allow them to edit the content on the sites I've created for them which are based on locked templates with designated 'editable regions' for them to access.
• So if Contribute is being abandoned, how do clients maintain their site content??
• If they subscribe to the Cloud-based MUSE, it will cost them an additional $15/month. (as much as their hosting costs!!)

Questions that I still do not have answers for (since no one at Adobe seems to have a clue!)

1. If I create the site with Contribute CS6, will clients be able to still edit content in defined 'editable regions' of their site pages using MUSE?
2. Where will they host their site?
3. Does a monthly MUSE subscription include hosting? and/or is that yet another separate charge for hosting through Adobe Business Catalyst?? and what is this combined cost?!
4. All of these seems very cumbersome and not to the benefit of my clients or to me as a web developer using Adobe Creative Suite products?  and finally...
5. HOW do I get answers to my questions? (I've spent a total of 5 hours talking to overseas tech support staff with 'Adobe' who read from a script and cannot answer ANY of these questions)
6. Customer Care cannot answer ANY of these questions either

I need support and clarification.

Thank you!

Tim Liszt

LisZt Design | Claritas Consortium

[phone removed by moderator]

[Ben M · Accepted solution]

1.  No Muse is not a substitute for Contribute, Business Catalyst is what Adobe will hope to take that role.  This is their hosted CMS solution.  I compare Muse to what Elements is in a sense to Photoshop.  It is for the non-professional to setup a website without coding.  It is not a content manager.

2.  You can host a site wherever you want to host a site.  If you go with BC, then you host it with Adobe.

3.  No.

4. Is this a question?

5. Not a strength of Adobe and one of my complaints about the "Cloud" that no support is included so you are not paying for any better level of support.  There was an open letter from Adobe VP Lambert Walsh ( http://blogs.adobe.com/captivate/2009/08/open_letter_to_our_customers_o.html ), who by the way is still with the company per his LinkedIn profile ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/lambert-walsh/2/b8b/123 ) .  Maybe you could reach out and let him know there is still an issue.

6.  This isn't a question either.

Contribute was a failed experiment by Adobe because it required to have your clients give an investment to not only the hosting but the tool as well.  Since Contribute was released, many developers have moved to CMS systems like Drupal, Joomla, Wordpress, Perch, PyroCMS, etc.  Then there are solutions like the BC solutions that give you a reselling platform and hosted solution in one so you don't have to get your own hosting as many of us have already done anyways.

Muse is not, and will not be a Contribute replacement.  Also, DW CS6 still has the option in the Site setup for Contribute compatibility, but I assume that will only be compatibility with CS5 which was the last version of Contribute released. 

[John Waller]

I don't see Contribute as a failed experiment. I think it was a fine product for its time and served a need very well while it lasted.

It first shipped in 2002 and it's taken 10 years for Adobe to (rightly) discontinue it. Many have successfully used Contribute in that decade.

It introduced novices to web content authoring where they could click Publish and see instant results online rather than emailing updates to a web developer and waiting hours or days to see the changes online.

The web has clearly moved on to browser based CMS authoring and Adobe is moving with the market (or perhaps trying to pioneer) with its latest offerings (Muse, BC and Cloud).

[lisztdesign]

Thank you for the information.

And my apologies for posing 'comments' as questions. It's been frustrating to have had 3 Adobe Customer Care staff and 2 technicians give me wrong/bad information.

Both tech support staff told me specifically that MUSE was replacing Contribute. And one of them said that I would need to give MY cloud login credentials to future clients so that they could use MUSE to update their sites. (crazy, eh?!)

I'm not clear about your reference to Business Catalyst being a reselling platform and hosted solution in one. What I've read indicates that I can have up to 5 sites hosted through Business Catalyst. But I have many more clients than 5.

Can you point me to where I can learn about:

• reselling hosting/CMS to clients through BC
• is BC a viable hosting solution for my clients? (if there site is hosted through BC, how will they manage content on their site? through Contribute CS5? or eventually through a CMS solution on BC similar to the systems you mentioned (Drupal, et. al)?

Thank you. You've been very helpful. Through 5 hours on the phone yesterday, I got the same feedback from Adobe support staff. "We don't know. Don't know what Muse does. If you build a site in Dreamweaver CS6 it will be *incompatible* with Contribute. etc." And no one could explain Business Catalyst and the hosting features.

[Ben M]

They re-organized that site a bit.  Personally I liked the BC site before the Adobe-fication of it.  Easier to read and understand.  Now they are calling it a BC Partner Program ( http://www.adobe.com/products/business-catalyst/partners.html ).  Wish there was more to show you, but screenshots seem to be at a minimum now.  They must be running out of space for images on the server.

[Nancy OShea]

BC has it's own CMS which is similar to InContext

http://www.adobe.com/products/business-catalyst/features.html

Business Catalyst Forums/General

http://forums.adobe.com/community/business_catalyst?view=discussions

Business Catalyst/Forums/Content Management

http://forums.adobe.com/community/business_catalyst/content_management_and_modules?view=discussions

Nancy O.

[TheDebber]

I totally agree with Tim Liszt!

Most of my clients are NOT computer savvy when it comes to websites, nor do they have the time to invest to learn complicated content management. Contribute is easy for them to understand, especially because they can "see" what their website looks like when they make simple alterations like text changes or updating a photo. That's what is (or what was) so great about Contribute. And now it's being discontinued!!??

Well here is more confusion with Adobe:

I just spoke with the "sales" department because I don't know if I want to upgrade to CS6 if I can't use Contribute for my clients. The sales rep (overseas) also told me that any NEW sites I create with Dreamweaver CS6 will NOT work with clients using Contribute 5 (or 4 or 3). To which I replied... "Oh, well... looks like I won't be making a purchase today." Then she transferred me to "tech support" (also, overseas) to get a further detailed answer. Here's what he had to say...

He said Contribute is NOT being discontinued and that Contribute 6 (as a stand alone program) will come out soon. Say what!???? I didn't believe him. He proceeded to tell me that the "sales" people do not have accurate information as they do, and he even spoke with his technical manager to confirm what he was telling me... which he insisted was true. He also said that my client CAN use Contribute 5 to make website changes if I create it with Dreamweaver CS6..... so basically the total opposite of everything Adobe Sales told me.

So there ya go... is it true, or is it not true?

Anyone dare to find out on their own?

And MUSE does NOT replace Contribute?... is it true, or is it not true?

Guess that depends on who you ask, too.

[Nancy OShea]

He said Contribute is NOT being discontinued and that Contribute 6 (as a stand alone program) will come out soon.

Reading this, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. 

Nancy O.

[John Waller]

Well according to the Contribute forum, it will live on in the short term as a point product

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4362566

Adobe Contribute is not part of CS6 but it will continue to be available as a point product. The Contribute engineering team will continue to provide updates and enhancements such as compatibility with Firefox, Internet Explorer, Windows 8, Mac OS X, and Microsoft Office and other workflows which are important to Adobe Contribute customers. The future roadmap for Contribute includes support for HTML5 and compatibility with new versions of Adobe Dreamweaver.

- Contribute Team

If true, I'm surprised that Adobe still thinks it's worth investing time and money into it.

It has well and truly had its day and is part of yesterday's web.

It must surely be discontinued soon (assuming that Contribute 6 does, in fact, ship).

[TheDebber]

Well I (for one) hope they DO keep Contribute alive because I have happy clients...... so far.

[John Waller]

It'll be OK for the next year or so but the web is changing rapidly and Contribute will not be part of the changing landscape in Adobe's long term planning.

[Nancy OShea]

If true, I'm surprised that Adobe still thinks it's worth investing time and money into it.

It has well and truly had its day and is part of yesterday's web.

It must surely be discontinued soon (assuming that Contribute 6 does, in fact, ship).

I totally agree, John.  I think Contribute users should prepare now for its eventual demise.  

• A real CMS solution is on the server for the life of the site. 
• No stand alone software to purchase. 
• Real CMS can be accessed from any web device.

Most clients would probably be delighted if they could edit their sites without being tied to Contribute.

Nancy O.

[TheDebber]

That's unfortunate. Clients are already delighted with the ease of use that Contribute provides, and that when they edit they can see it as though they are on the actual webpage.

[lisztdesign]

This has been an interesting discussion.

One key frustration is the MISinformation that (trained?) Adobe customer service and tech support staff are giving out. Very frustrating. I've been given very conflicting information.

In response to these advantages:

• A real CMS solution is on the server for the life of the site.
• No stand alone software to purchase.
• Real CMS can be accessed from any web device.

There are these disadvantages:

• My clients find Contribute quite intuitive and easy to use. I've been able to get them up and running quickly.
• Maybe no standalone software to purchase, but there's an ongoing monthly cost above/beyond hosting.

I need to know (much) more about the CMS solution that is part of Adobe's Business Catalyst solution. I'm still unclear about how all of these products work together (Dreamweaver, MUSE, CMS on BC).

Currently I have NEW upcoming web projects for clients and want to figure out whether hosting their site at BC will provide them with the tools they need to manage their content. And will this be as easy for them to use as Contribute has been in the past?

It definitely seems that the BC web hosting plans are not as generous as the current hosting company I use for all of my clients (Hostway Global Web Solutions).

Hostway provides *unlimited* monthly traffic and 50 email accounts for $16/month vs.1GB monthlyy bandwidth through BC.

[Nancy OShea]

• Maybe no standalone software to purchase, but there's an ongoing monthly cost above/beyond hosting.

Only if you use a subscription solution like Business Catalyst.  If you use your own hosting & CMS solution, you won't have this problem.

Get Simple CMS - (open source)

PHP, no database required.

http://get-simple.info/

CMS Made Simple - (open source)

PHP & MySql required

http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/

Concrete 5 (open source)

PHP & MySql required

http://www.concrete5.org/

Perch (commercial - one time license = $54 per domain)

PHP & MySql required

http://grabaperch.com/

e107 CMS (open source)

PHP & MySql required

http://e107.org/

Content Seed - (commercial)

Available in ASP or PHP

no database required. 

http://contentseed.com/

WebAssist Power CMS (commercial)

PHP & MySql required

http://www.webassist.com/dreamweaver-extensions/powercms-builder/

WordPress

http://wordpress.org

Joomla!

http://joomla.com

Drupal

http://drupal.com

Nancy O.

[aaronyoung]

and Nancy every one of those are overkill for a simple static website.  Plus they are a hassle to update and design for compared to a simple static site.  Not everyone needs a CMS especially database driven. 

Why for a simple static site do we need those compared to Contribute?  Why would I want the hassle designing a small site in one of these apps.  I use a CMS for my large clients who can take advantage of the features they offer but Contribute will always have its place for smaller sites.

Infact I can design and build a small static site in a hour versus building a custom or trying to edit a wordpress theme.

Makes no sense to believe the Contribute doesnt have a place going forward.

[aaronyoung]

I will add this to the convesation for perspective.  Before we bought a CMS we had over 200 websites using Contribute since version 1.0.  In all those years we have seen only a few problems and user needing some help.  Most never even needed any training at all.  They would want us to come train them but we would say play with Contribute first.  They would call us back and say they didnt need training and how much they loved it. 

Nearly all those 200+ sites still use Contribute today and only a handful have joined our CMS.  Of those handful every one of them has needed training to use it and call on a regular basis needing help of having difficulty using it.  It's not hard...its a powerful CMS and offers all sorts of stuff, but its much more complicated than the simple browse. click and publish of Contribute.  I have installed 6 different CMS's and non even come close to that level of simplicity.

Adobe is foolish if they are planning to make Contribute disapear and I can see them doing that to try and push people into their cloud...Contribute will go away for the money...adobe wants more dough... not because the demand isnt there or its complicated to support or no longer a good tool.

I was at the conference when Contribue was debuted in a private session.  The shirts we were given said "the end of hassle"  "</ Hassle>"...and it was so true.  We went from having to update every single clients website to turning that over to them.  200+ websites and only a handful of users needing help speaks for itself.

Oh and we cant get people to leave Contribute for the CMS....its just too easy to use.

[chucknado]

InContext Editing in Business Catalyst works like Contribute. It lets clients make simple content changes (update text, images, links and other content), but in a web browser rather than in a standalone application. You define editable regions in templates and you can set different permissions to edit the regions. Here's some more info:

Training your clients to update their sites with InContext Editing

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/businesscatalyst/articles/training_clients_ice.html

InContext Editing for Business Catalyst administrators

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/businesscatalyst/articles/ice_for_admins.html 

Thanks.

Charles Nadeau

[TheDebber]

Looks like InContext Editing will also cost clients more than Contribute (at $50 per month!) since it is no longer a stand alone application. Not a good solution for my clients. And is this a sneaky way to get us to use Adobe's hosting services with Creative Cloud? I don't want to switch hosting companies.

By the way... your first link on "Training your clients" took me to a broken page....

Needed to remove the "http://" after ".html"

[galyng]

Thank you for posting all my questions as well - CS6 Cloud has been sorely disappointing since its implementation. Using online storage is difficult at best since you can't drag and drop folders. Trying to move my business to the cloud is impossible with the current set up. Billing issues abound... and installations of software are tripping over CS5.

In Adobe's effort to get a piece of the pie they perceive to be there, they have really muddied the waters for those of us working with small business clients on tight budgets. After reading all of this posting I still don't know which direction to head. Most attractive so far is HMTL5, CSS3 and Nancy O's suggestion of using Get Simple CMS.

Adobe is very confused. Leaving me even more confused.

[Nancy OShea]

I'm using Creative Cloud and my experience has been positive. 

I guess it all depends on how you use it.

Nancy O.

[aaronyoung]

I know this is an old thread but I have to say the idea of needing to stop using Contribute and instead a database driven CMS is extremely bad information.  Many people have very small static websites that are in most cases a handful of pages.  A CMS is extreme overkill and recommending that would be ignorant and irresponsible.

Not everyone needs a dynamic service driven website. Sometimes the average person just wants or needs simple.  I know there are plenty of companies that provde browser based editing of cookie cutter websites for free but that is often generic and unprofessional...sometimes people want to match their brand and have more control over the presentation.  I have played with these "free" website buillders because clients bought them and they are horrible.  Contribute works perfectly for the needs of the designer and client.

Contribute is and has been an excellent solution to the average small business or personal website and designers who want to offer a way for customers to easily update their own static content.

CMS's are great for large scale websites (we run one in our environment) and site that take advantage of web applications but to say that is the only future is silly.

[VikramGaur]

Adobe Contribute is not part of CS6 but it will continue to be available as a point product. The Contribute engineering team will continue to provide updates and enhancements such as compatibility with Firefox, Internet Explorer, Windows 8, Mac OS X, and Microsoft Office and other workflows which are important to Adobe Contribute customers. The future roadmap for Contribute includes support for HTML5 and compatibility with new versions of Adobe Dreamweaver.

[Sarthak Singhal]

**A new release of Contribute is expected to come out soon **

[TheDebber]

Great news!