Newbie: Want to use Drmwvr - BUT Svr side guy uses Vis Website Dvlpr with .Net 2.0 & Msft SQL Svr Mgmt Studio Expr

Hi Angie,

You asked what kind of ASP. 1.1 stuff can you do purely with DW and what are you loosing by not using ASP 2.0.

I'm not trying to sell my work on this forum - but the best way to show you what it can do is to look at my portfolio - www.allurecreative.com. You will see small and medium sites. Sites we sell for between $3K and $15K.

Before I say what may be a surprise to fans of Visual Studio (of which I am one), let me just quickly mention what 'universe' I am in. It's important to know that when asking for any 'expert' opinions.

I build publicly accessible database driven websites, either using Access database or SQL database. All have content management systems, many have specialty programming to perform unusual or unique functions. My beliefs and experience are limited to this universe.

WHAT'S SO SPECIAL ABOUT DW AND IT'S VERSION OF ASP.NET 1.1 SUPPORT?

This may sound odd to diehards of VS 2005, but what I like most about DW and it's brand of ASP.net support is that I can READILY do ANYTHING I want. I can reach right down at the code level and easily take database data and manipulate it however I feel by whatever method I feel like. I do not feel limited by what the wizards and the prebuilt controls will allow me to do. Because of this freedom I have never met a programming goal I could not accomplish. My successful web business (6 years +) is built on this level of creativity.

With VS 2005, you can also reach down into the code, but microsoft does not go out of their way to make that easy. Instead, the emphasis is on not writing any code using controls like gridview, details view and formview. Don't get me wrong, these are hugely valuable under the conditions for which they were constructed. I use them and use them often. And the fact that the code is written for you is ok, too in my book. But as soon as you want to do something that requires creativity outside the limits of ASP.net controls, VS 2005 does not encourage that at all. For example, it takes a high level of programming ability to take data from separate tables and combine and use that in the code. It can be done, but it's a lot of work, and the learning curve is steep. Not so in DW. learning curve is much easier and once you learn a few fundamentals, there is nothing you can't do.

WHAT DO YOU LOOSE IF YOU WENT 100% DW for ASP.Net development

Again - speaking from within my universe - you can get by without ASP.net 2. But some of the controls are very attractive under certain conditions. mastering the gridview, detailsview and form view are worth the price of admission in my book. I am more efficient with them than without. I would not want to give them up. So while you could get by without them, you are much better off with them.


Large commercial websites probably should go master page (ASP.net 2); medium and smaller sites like the ones I build work quite well programmed using standard ASP.net 1 controls as sort of a psuedo- master/content page system. (Note: most of our sites are developed using context.rewrite method so a couple of physical pages normally handles 90% of the site's needs.)

SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

I don't think you should take an either-or approach. You can still use DW and it's 1.1 capabilities where they make sense, then use in the same site ASP.net 2.0 stuff from Visual Studio. That way, you have all the refinements that 10+ years of DW growth have benefited from, and some of the cool new tools of VS 2005/ASP.net.


Rick

You can design your templates in DW and the server side guy can do his stuff
in VWD. You don't both need to use the same software. In fact, intranets
should be software independant. Your boss would just want it to work. Also,
don't get too complacent about ASP.NET. It's not easy for beginners. You'll
need a lot of training. How long did it take you to become proficient in DW
and all design? You'll need to allow that same amount of time again to learn
ASP.NET.

--
Jules
http://www.charon.co.uk/charoncart
Charon Cart 3
Shopping Cart Extension for Dreamweaver MX/MX 2004

Actually, Microsoft Expression Web Designer CTP 1 (EWD) would be a better
recommendation. EWD is the so-called "Dreamweaver Killer" now in beta which
Microsoft calls "Community Technology Previews." While there are some
refinements that lag behind there is much to be said about that claim noting
after all its only CTP1 I'm talking about here.

For more insight see:
news://microsoft.public.expression.discussion
news://microsoft.public.expression.webdesigner

If Microsoft releases EWD with support for creating the equivalent of
Dreamweaver's "extensions" Adobe can kiss Dreamweaver goodbye for anything
but developing PHP and CFML. Adobe has a lot of work to do. It will be
interesting to see if they choose to capitulate or compete.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://www.metromilwaukee.com/clintongallagher/



"RYoung" <no@mail.com> wrote in message
news:e7fdg6$cu6$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> I'd say that any tool/technology has a learning curve, whether one is
> steeper than the other is irrelevant because your knowledge of the tool
> increases in proportion to how much time you spend learning the tool.
>
> That being said, if you use Dreamweaver for ASP.NET development (all
> arguments concerning it's "lack of support for 2.0" aside) then eventually
> you'll master the tool. However, you put it cleanly when you said your
> skillset and the other guy's skillset won't gel.
>
> If you start learning VWD at this moment, then your knowledge of
> ASP.NET/databases is no further along than with where you are in DW.
> Therefore, you have nothing to lose - and alot to gain - by getting VWD,
> SQL Server Express, and the Express Management Studio and diving head
> first into that set of tools for developing .NET applications.
>
> You'll want to take small steps at first, just basic database retrieval
> operations and getting result sets to display in different databound
> controls. Eventually you'll progress to the other CRUD operations with
> databases.
>
> It all takes time, and dedication. Just hang in there and stick with it,
> cause eventually it gets fun.
>
> I can't point you to resources concerning beginning with VWD other than
> asp.net and http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/default.aspx
>
> In my opinion, I'd highly recommend using VWD for your ASP.NET
> development.
>
> Ron
>
> "computerkitten" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
> news:e7f56o$3td$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> OK for all you experts out there on the server side.....
>>
>> I just finished up an Intermediate Dreamweaver class and we didn't
>> discuss
>> connecting to databases via Dreamweaver.
>>
>> Which is fine and its taught in other classes I am sure. However I was
>> planning to stay on the design side and learn a little bit about the
>> server
>> side.
>>
>> But the issue I have is that someone at my company has designed a website
>> using Visual Website Developer with .Net 2.0 and Microsoft SQL Server
>> Management Studio Express database. I got involved because there is hope
>> of
>> not having our intranet designed in this package but instead Dreamweaver.
>> The
>> developer of the current Intranet is a server side guy and is going over
>> my
>> head when explaining and showing me how to connect to a database using
>> Visual
>> Web Developer.
>>
>> I wanted to learn about that Visual Web Developer product ONLY so I could
>> then
>> try to understand how to connect to a SQL Server Management Studio
>> express
>> database. So can Dreamweaver connect to a database such as this via
>> .NET? Can
>> someone explain in preschool terminology how this all works together and
>> what
>> my options are with Dreamweaver?
>>
>> I am just trying to figure out what to do.... and how to understand all
>> this.
>> I know this developer has gone to a lot of work on the server side
>> working in
>> this environment. So I don't know how our skills are going to "gel"
>> together
>> given I am just the Dreamweaver nerdette.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Angie
>>
>>
>
>

I'd say that any tool/technology has a learning curve, whether one is
steeper than the other is irrelevant because your knowledge of the tool
increases in proportion to how much time you spend learning the tool.

That being said, if you use Dreamweaver for ASP.NET development (all
arguments concerning it's "lack of support for 2.0" aside) then eventually
you'll master the tool. However, you put it cleanly when you said your
skillset and the other guy's skillset won't gel.

If you start learning VWD at this moment, then your knowledge of
ASP.NET/databases is no further along than with where you are in DW.
Therefore, you have nothing to lose - and alot to gain - by getting VWD, SQL
Server Express, and the Express Management Studio and diving head first into
that set of tools for developing .NET applications.

You'll want to take small steps at first, just basic database retrieval
operations and getting result sets to display in different databound
controls. Eventually you'll progress to the other CRUD operations with
databases.

It all takes time, and dedication. Just hang in there and stick with it,
cause eventually it gets fun.

I can't point you to resources concerning beginning with VWD other than
asp.net and http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/default.aspx

In my opinion, I'd highly recommend using VWD for your ASP.NET development.

Ron

"computerkitten" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e7f56o$3td$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> OK for all you experts out there on the server side.....
>
> I just finished up an Intermediate Dreamweaver class and we didn't discuss
> connecting to databases via Dreamweaver.
>
> Which is fine and its taught in other classes I am sure. However I was
> planning to stay on the design side and learn a little bit about the
> server
> side.
>
> But the issue I have is that someone at my company has designed a website
> using Visual Website Developer with .Net 2.0 and Microsoft SQL Server
> Management Studio Express database. I got involved because there is hope
> of
> not having our intranet designed in this package but instead Dreamweaver.
> The
> developer of the current Intranet is a server side guy and is going over
> my
> head when explaining and showing me how to connect to a database using
> Visual
> Web Developer.
>
> I wanted to learn about that Visual Web Developer product ONLY so I could
> then
> try to understand how to connect to a SQL Server Management Studio express
> database. So can Dreamweaver connect to a database such as this via .NET?
> Can
> someone explain in preschool terminology how this all works together and
> what
> my options are with Dreamweaver?
>
> I am just trying to figure out what to do.... and how to understand all
> this.
> I know this developer has gone to a lot of work on the server side working
> in
> this environment. So I don't know how our skills are going to "gel"
> together
> given I am just the Dreamweaver nerdette.
>
> Thanks,
> Angie
>
>

Angie

I am afraid that I have some bad news for here. Dreamweaver does not know to
handle ASP.Net 2.0 controls. The ASP.Net database connection is based around
a class that Macromedia wrote and does not use standard ADO code. Therefore
for 2.0 data connection it is better to stick with visual web developer.

All is not lost though. You can still do the base layouts in DW and then
open them in VWD to add the controls.

--
Paul Whitham
Certified Dreamweaver MX2004 Professional
Adobe Community Expert - Dreamweaver

Valleybiz Internet Design
www.valleybiz.net

"computerkitten" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:e7f56o$3td$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> OK for all you experts out there on the server side.....
>
> I just finished up an Intermediate Dreamweaver class and we didn't discuss
> connecting to databases via Dreamweaver.
>
> Which is fine and its taught in other classes I am sure. However I was
> planning to stay on the design side and learn a little bit about the
> server
> side.
>
> But the issue I have is that someone at my company has designed a website
> using Visual Website Developer with .Net 2.0 and Microsoft SQL Server
> Management Studio Express database. I got involved because there is hope
> of
> not having our intranet designed in this package but instead Dreamweaver.
> The
> developer of the current Intranet is a server side guy and is going over
> my
> head when explaining and showing me how to connect to a database using
> Visual
> Web Developer.
>
> I wanted to learn about that Visual Web Developer product ONLY so I could
> then
> try to understand how to connect to a SQL Server Management Studio express
> database. So can Dreamweaver connect to a database such as this via .NET?
> Can
> someone explain in preschool terminology how this all works together and
> what
> my options are with Dreamweaver?
>
> I am just trying to figure out what to do.... and how to understand all
> this.
> I know this developer has gone to a lot of work on the server side working
> in
> this environment. So I don't know how our skills are going to "gel"
> together
> given I am just the Dreamweaver nerdette.
>
> Thanks,
> Angie
>
>