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Is Dreamweaver the next to go?

Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

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Is Dreamweaver the next to go?

Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Like I promised, I checked with the senior management about the future of Dreamweaver, and their answer was that they see no reason to stop developing the product. Dreamweaver will continue to exist, period.

I understand that no amount of reassurance will suffice, but I do want to put other Dreamweaver users visiting this post at ease.

I am marking my answer as correct only because I want this question to be addressed upfront for visitors that will not care to read the rest of the discussion. If any of you feel strongly against that, let me know, and I will take care of unmarking it.

Thanks,

Preran

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Mar 26, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Yikes that is really, really defeatest. Only 8 years some bits of web software hav ebeen going 20+ years. What is going on inside Adobe I ask myself.

All those people who yet again have been sold a pup, much like fluid grids, have invested a lot of time in understanding how a program works, all wasted unless you want to live in a past world and slowly fade away.

Maybe they have bought Wappler........something very fishy going on here.

Maybe Adobe itself is in freefal.

Looks like Business Catalyst has gone as well:

Adobe announces the End of Life for Business Catalyst

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Engaged ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Dreamweaver is already dead for several years... most users use the old CS6, definitely not the last two versions (2017/2018).

For Adobe Muse and Business Catalyst I think the reasons for their closure is to be found in drastic changes at the web development level in recent years, WordPress has become the reference point (at least here in Italy), the companies themselves ask for it and most of them look for ready-to-use templates/websites.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 26, 2018

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where are you from in Italia ?

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Engaged ,
Mar 26, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  ha scritto

where are you from in Italia ?

Vicenza, city in northeastern Italy (Vicenza - Wikipedia )

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 26, 2018

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every year since a while we go at Lignano Sabbiadoro... for a couple of weeks during the HabaWaba festival (waterpolo)

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Mar 26, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Is Dw the next to go?

The question I would ask is, "does it make any difference"?

Adobe announced last year in a video conference that it intended to rationalise its product line-up, and concentrate on its core products. Reading the reasons why in the Muse announcement, the dropping of flash content and other Adobe 'product' plug-ins by browsers, add to that the steady demise of other Adobe web releated products, then all I can say is, "watching the development of Dw over the last few years, has been like watching a train crash in slow motion".

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Mar 26, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 26, 2018

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yep... I agree... and I will add when reading your question "Does it make any difference"... maintaining or not DW developement wont change anything... currently more and more users leave DW... for old versions or alternative solution...

on prerelease there are I think 4 active person... and one message a week... so one can't say that there is any effervescence... just hey we add this... can you test ? please ?... but except marketing... non one ask for this add

so keeping dw on board or not... wont change anything...

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Mar 26, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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My way of looking at it is, so long as I have my cd with CS6 and I can write extensions to up-date the code support, CS6 will be all I require. I have even put off upgrading my computers internals and checking that I can roll-back windows 10 up-dates, just to make certain it still runs without problems.

Maybe that is the problem with Dw, CS6 is so easy to extend with self built or paid for extensions, that for web development the CC versions, (all products required for the web) simply did not offer enough to make the cost worthwhile.

As for the pre-release, the Dw team and a number of cab members are responsible in my opinion. Telling participants not to criticise, to leave if they don't use Dw, ignoring participants posts, and that modern w3c spec support is not required. Is not the way to encourage participation.

As for server-side, Dw killed that off itself years ago.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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That is a surprising turn of events.

Or is it? Given that Adobe cant seem to wisely forecast past their nose what to do, focus on or develop. Muse, Edge, and on down the line of failed applications and workflow endeavors. So many hours, months years wasted repeatedly by Adobe. All the while their core flagship products sink into despair for the lack of any real innovation or keeping up with the times.

What the *@#$%;-) are they even doing ? Oh yeah thats right, collecting Cash Cloud payments, they no longer need to worry about things as long as the marketing works and enough people buy in.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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As expected it's not a pretty sight over in the Muse Forum right now ....

EDIT: Yippie post moderation is back!

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Mar 26, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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I don't really have very much sympathy with Muse users, except in that the alternative recommended product, (Adobe Spark) is not ready for use, and has no real info available.

The ones I feel sorry for are the BC users, as trying to convert BC code to another server-side code for anything more than a small site, could be a very large undertaking, and the question of 'who pays' for what, is one I would not like to ask a client.

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Mar 26, 2018 2
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

I don't really have very much sympathy with Muse users

I think my words of wisdom in terms of how important it is to be able to code has been vindicated. Without it you are literally in the hands of someone elses decision making.

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Mar 26, 2018 3
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 26, 2018

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#truth

When I was a GL user, I was stuck doing whatever GL could do, which was enough in most situations. It felt like the rug was pulled out from under me when Adobe killed it. There was nothing even remotely similar to GL at the time. It forced me to learn how to code and I already had DW as part of the Master Collection, so...

In the beginning I thought there was no way I would be able to get my hand coded sites to work as well as my GL sites did. That lasted a few months. After about a year, I realized how limited GL actually was. After two, I laughed about the idea of ever using GL again.

It's nice to know that if DW decided to pull the plug tomorrow, I'd be no worse for wear.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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osgood_​ , indeed learning HTML / CSS / Javascript - always was and remains the best and most secure decision a person can make whom wishes to work in the web space.

pziecina  wrote

I don't really have very much sympathy with Muse users

I certainly have compassion for them.

These are WYSIWYG people, designers. Who no doubt learned a product and its workflow based upon the Adobe marketed ideal that "they too can be web designers". Most probably bought and invested in many Muse Widgets, perhaps investing in many Muse Templates as well. They created their own site as well as client sites. Now this news comes tumbling down and it must be devastating that their entire eco system has been turned to ruins by Adobe.

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Mar 26, 2018 6
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

I certainly have compassion for them.

These are WYSIWYG people, designers. Who no doubt learned a product and its workflow based upon the Adobe marketed ideal that "they too can be web designers". Most probably bought and invested in many Muse Widgets, perhaps investing in many Muse Templates as well. They created their own site as well as client sites. Now this news comes tumbling down and it must be devastating that their entire eco system has been turned to ruins by Adobe.

Sorry but no.

charging money and not knowing what you are actually doing is all Muse offered. Muse users call themselves professional web designers, they are not.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

Sorry but no.

charging money and not knowing what you are actually doing is all Muse offered. Muse users call themselves professional web designers, they are not.

Nope. ^

It's all relative pziecina​ . Sorry you cant seem to see or sympathize with their plight, or for that matter the intent of what I wrote.

As per your definition, many likewise using Dreamweaver and a plethora of other more advanced tools are in the same boat. Improperly calling or thinking of themselves as professionals, all the while not truly knowing that they are doing even though they charge for it. Everyone and their cousin is a self proclaimed "Full Stack Developer" nowadays. I am more concerned regarding those people than designers using any WYSIWYG tool.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Sorry you cant seem to see or sympathize with their plight, or for that matter the intent of what I wrote.

Sympathy is good. It's cleansing. It gives us insight into the human condition and allows us to see beyond the moral cesspool that modern society has built. I like sympathy.

As per your definition, many likewise using Dreamweaver and a plethora of other more advanced tools are in the same boat. Improperly calling or thinking of themselves as professionals, all the while not truly knowing that they are doing even though they charge for it. Everyone and their cousin is a self proclaimed "Full Stack Developer" nowadays. I am more concerned regarding those people than designers using any WYSIWYG tool.

I truly believe that the regulars here do not understand who really uses Dreamweaver. But it does not matter in the overall scheme of things. Sometimes I'll repair a plumbing or electrical issue in my house because I like tinkering with stuff. But I am not a professional plumber or electrician. To criticize people for not being coders is extremely shallow. Some just like to create. Some of them have advanced degrees. Some may even but rocket scientists. Perhaps it is something that makes a "coder" feel better about him or herself .

In any event, one could write a book on the mistakes Adobe has made with Dreamweaver. Some could also make a case that Adobe's ineptitude opened the door for the WordPress and plethora of free or inexpensive editors and services.

Whatever will be, will be. It is what it is and, most importantly, if it's not one thing it's another.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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You may repair an electrical issue, but would you completely re-wire your home?

That's what I mean by someone being a professional. A professional can do whatever is necessary, not just tinker and then think they can offer others a complete professional service, complete with a full re-wire of a home service.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Not really being able to code means you are not dependent on someone elses ideas and when that someone else decides to pull the plug. I think that is good sense really. Ok not everyone wants to code l accept that but then those who rely on others skills shouldnt really bleak when it all goes t×ts up.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
Community Beginner ,
Mar 26, 2018

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It is not that I don’t know how to code, it is that designing/coding takes many more hours and makes profitability difficult.  The Muse / Business Catalyst solutions was ideal for efficiency with a excellence ecosystem of tools.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Sure l understand that, its as a result of the crap world we live in today, pile it high sell it cheap and look whats happening all around you, companies, shops and software cant compete in an increasingly cut throat environment.  We are our own worst enemies.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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Fun. You choose to ignore my comment, instead using a non-related analogy, so nothing new offered there. It still does not address anything concerning your lack of empathy. But yes I can rewire my own house, thanks for inquiring.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Fun. You choose to ignore my comment, instead using a non-related analogy, so nothing new offered there. It still does not address anything concerning your lack of empathy. But yes I can rewire my own house, thanks for inquiring.

I suggest you look to whom I responded to, it was not you.

As for ignoring your comment, it is clear we both have a different perspective so nothing to respond to.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

I suggest you look to whom I responded to, it was not you.

You mentioned professional and I just assumed, my bad. I thought you took the tractor down to the pub and was using the wifi.

pziecina  wrote

As for ignoring your comment, it is clear we both have a different perspective so nothing to respond to.

Well cheers to you in hopes you may gain some empathy towards others plight, none the less.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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You may repair an electrical issue, but would you completely re-wire your home?

Not without a lot of sparks. But as far as making a web site, some people cannot afford, or perhaps not want to pay out the tens of thousands of dollars it would take to hire the team of true coders it would take to do a really professional piece of work. In addition to believing the folks ho frequent this forum do not understand the typical Dreamweaver user, I am not convinced they fully understand the level of expertise it would require to truly code an entire web site. Quality and talent are such evasive things sometimes. Some people install and edit WordPress and consider themselves professional web developers, but you cannot really argue the point, because to them, they are, so who is really to say?

That's what I mean by someone being a professional. A professional can do whatever is necessary, not just tinker and then think they can offer others a complete professional service, complete with a full re-wire of a home service.

Very true, and I thinks, perhaps unknowingly, you are in agreement with me, because in my metaphor, my entire house is the web site, and the electricity is merely a part of the whole. Think about it. There are precious few "professionals" that are capable of being expert in all the disciplines that comprise a modern web site.

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Mar 26, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Mar 26, 2018

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W_J_T  wrote

Well cheers to you in hopes you may gain some empathy towards others plight, none the less.

The Muse user who has created a site for personal use only, has lost nothing, as they must only save the site as html and upload to another server.

The Muse user who has created sites for profit, probably did so bidding against someone who wanted to create the site using code. Many even created sites that run into 100's of pages, and charge for updating, even those Muse users probably bid on a cost bases. Did they feel any sympathy for the coder that lost out to the drag and drop site creator. Unlikely.

As I said in my post, I do feel sympathy for the person who created sites using BC, as they have no alternative but to do a complete re-code.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Mar 26, 2018

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pziecina  wrote

The Muse user who has created sites for profit, probably did so bidding against someone who wanted to create the site using code. Many even created sites that run into 100's of pages, and charge for updating, even those Muse users probably bid on a cost bases. Did they feel any sympathy for the coder that lost out to the drag and drop site creator. Unlikely.

The internet is made up of a plethora of ways to get there and operate. You seem to be looking at it from such a narrow purist view and discarding everything else as folly.

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Mar 26, 2018 0
New Here ,
Mar 28, 2018

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I am a Muse user who has been thinking of learning code to be able to use Dreamweaver. If a Muse site is converted to Html couldnt that site then be edited in Dreamweaver? Even though I am a Muse user I always thought it would be wise to learn code.

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Mar 28, 2018 1
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 28, 2018

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Yes it can be edited in Dreamweaver. The consequence is that you cannot return to the Muse environment.

Once you have learned to code properly and looking at the following code

<p id="u22207-5"> </p>

<h3 id="u22207-7">Some people want to take care of all planning aspects for their big day, but want to entrust the &quot;Day Of&quot; coordination to someone else. One Red Event offers &quot;Day Of&quot; services for these exact instances. We are there to ensure your events run smoothly, while the hosts and guests enjoy their event to the fullest.</h3>

<p id="u22207-8"> </p>

you will soon realise that in Muse there is a misuse of the id selector. The first and last lines of code have the same function, namely to space out the h3 element, Yet each of those two lines have a different selector value (id's may only be used once per document). In this case, rather than use an id, we as coders would use a class selector (class' are allowed multiple times in a document). Even better, we would style the h3 element so that the p elements are not required.

Welcome to our world!


Ben

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Mar 28, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 29, 2018

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Sankofa216  wrote

Even though I am a Muse user I always thought it would be wise to learn code.

An excellent long-term decision.   You can't go wrong knowing how to use core technologies (HTML5, CSS, JavaScript, etc...). 

Nancy O'Shea, ACP
Alt-Web Design & Publishing

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Mar 29, 2018 1
Engaged ,
Apr 07, 2018

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I was upset at first but BC is outdated as much as DW.

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Apr 07, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Apr 07, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/john+stephanites  wrote

I was upset at first but BC is outdated as much as DW.

No one has ever said that Adobe knows what it is doing when it comes to web development, and Dw is simply following in Adobes footsteps.

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Apr 07, 2018 1
Engaged ,
Apr 07, 2018

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The real reason I was upset because it was a good offer. 5 free simple sites but there are other options now for that. I’m ok I have no reason now to stay with my subscription and save the money.

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Apr 07, 2018 0
LEGEND ,
Apr 07, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/john+stephanites  wrote

The real reason I was upset because it was a good offer. 5 free simple sites ...

I think that for many Muse users, the use of BC servers for hosting was a major reason for its use.

Lets be honest, if you can offer clients hosting and a 'sort of' domain name that costs you nothing, it is a major advantage. For Adobe though, with BC itself being almost obsolete and getting very little in return for the hosting of sites, it probably made sense for them to discontinue both Muse and BC at the same time.

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Apr 07, 2018 1
Mentor ,
Apr 07, 2018

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Lets be honest, if you can offer clients hosting and a 'sort of' domain name that costs you nothing, it is a major advantage. For Adobe though, with BC itself being almost obsolete and getting very little in return for the hosting of sites, it probably made sense for them to discontinue both Muse and BC at the same time.

Which is why I suggested to Adobe that they leverage Muse and the BC team to roll out a little competition for WordPress.com, which is slooooooooooooowly monetizing. Adobe had the pieces in play for a CMS/Blogging solution with a twist that WordPress could never have touched: a desktop editor. In my opinion, this was the worst of many horrible decisions that Adobe has made in recent years.

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Apr 07, 2018 1
LEGEND ,
Apr 07, 2018

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Let's be honest BC and Muse would have still not have been part of Adobes latest 'big' idea, (the experience cloud) and would still not have competed with the likes of Wordpress.

Wordpress became so popular because for many users it is so easy to install, (most hosting providers have a 'one click' install) and creating a theme or using a template makes it easy for anyone to customise what the site visitor sees, (no harder than customizing bootstrap, probably easier for most). Add to that all the plug-ins, and the promotion it gets even in this forum, (or used to get in this forum) and it is no surprise many web design shops use it.

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Apr 07, 2018 1