Adobe - PLEASE free up Fireworks.

[IAMark]

As some of you know, or are finding out... all of a sudden, folks can't access Fireworks, myself included.  Suggestions to use it as a trial version are short-lived, for obvious reasons.  Adobe is simple stating that they no longer support FW, period.  Which is obviously their prerogative.

But this decision is hurting me and many, many others like me, who have come to rely on FW as an essential part of their day to day toolbox.

There have been no updates to Fireworks in forever - and no one is asking for them.  We're just asking that Adobe let the program check in and go about it's merry way.

I've been a Fireworks user since Macromedia.  (yeah - I've been around since the Flash and Director days.) I use it every single day, without fail.  It is fast, clean, easy to use and I've built an entire workflow around it - not to mention literally tens of thousands of source files - which I can no longer fully access, because Adobe has decided to no longer let the program "check in". 

As such, this renders all of those layered source files essentially useless - I can open them in another program, but not edit them.  If all Adobe needs to do is let the program check in, who exactly would that hurt?  I AM gladly paying for Creative Cloud, and have been for years - so it's not a matter of lost revenue.  I'm at a loss to understand why Adobe has chosen this route.

There are some who are saying "Get over it - it's old software.  Go find an alternative."  My reply to that is why?  Why should we have to? FW works just fine AS IS.  No one has to do anything to FW to let it continue to run - except let it continue to run.

If Adobe did this with Photoshop, folks would set the world on fire.

As a very long time Adobe user and supporter - I am asking politely and respectfully, but fervently... please, Adobe - reconsider the decision to kill off Fireworks.  If a future OS update or some such kills it, then I'll live with it.  But the decision as it stands makes no sense to me, and hurts me in a real working sense.

Thank you for listening, and for your consideration.

[B i r n o u]

you've said it all... what more could we add, except our voice so that folks @Adobe can hear you...
thank you for writing such a fair text, without anger or bitterness,
thank you!

[j3Nx]

I couldn't agree more! I've contacted Adobe via multiple methods and all i get back is the canned response that thet stopped supporting FW in'13 - why that matters is beyond me. I'm not asking for support, or updates or ANYTHING other than access to a program i've used daily since, like you, the Macromedia days.
Nearly all my files are in layered FW files. andnow years of works are basically uselsess to me. If the 30day trial works fine, then WHY nto let CC subscribers just utilize the software? it makes zero sense. 
Is there a tool exists to transitions FW docs to .psd to preserve the layers?? 
I'm so frustrated, IMHO photoshop is overkill for what I needed FW to do. 
It's like they took away my favorite paintbrushes, & replaced them with an overcomplicated and somewhat useless digital chisel.

I'd be in for setting up a digital form of some sort for people to e-sign requesting FW be reinstated and figuring out who the right peple to forward this to. If someoen else is up to writing a formal complaint.... 
Us bickering about how badly this change has impacted our lives isn't even being read by the peple who make the decisions.
I do think something must at leat be attempted to be done aboutthis madness. I've been paying Adobe their excessive fees for years and primairly JUST to use FW. 

...rant over ~peace~  ..jen  j3n6n7d@gmail.com
  

[rayek.elfin]

'Freeing' Fireworks would mean open sourcing it. Merely publishing a binary (executable) that happens to work on current Windows systems and (very) old MacOS systems will not cut it. It MUST be open sourced, because at some point in the future Fireworks will stop working on all modern operating systems.

My first point: Adobe will NEVER 'free' Fireworks for a number of simple reasons:

1) Fireworks source code includes licensed elements. These would have to be ripped out for a 'free' release or open source release.

2) open sourcing or 'freeing' Fireworks costs money. Someone at Adobe (a developer) would have to spend time learning FW's source code, removing licensed code/dependencies, repairing parts that are affected by those deleted parts, and preparing and cleaning the source code for public release.

There is probably no-one left working at Adobe who is familiar with Fireworks' code. And even if there is such a person, they haven't worked with the code for a very long time.

And obviously Adobe is a company that is greedy. They've proven that again and again. Thus it is quite improbable that they would invest any funds and man power in open sourcing Fireworks.

3) Freehand set the historic precedent. Fireworks is in an identical position. Freehand was (still is in some circles) a beloved vector illustration alternative to Illustrator. When Macromedia was acquired by Adobe an active group of Freehand users petitioned Adobe and actually took legal action back in 2009 or so to open source it or sell it to another company to ensure continued development.

The archived website can be found here: https://web.archive.org/web/20150617031208/http://www.freehandforum.org/

In short, even though the parties found common ground, it proved impossible for Adobe to open source Freehand, even if they wanted to. Freehand never was 'freed'.

Fireworks shares a lot of code with Freehand and is in an identical situation as Freehand was. Likewise, it is (most probably) impossible for Adobe to 'let it go free'.

History and practical concerns demonstrate one certainty: Fireworks will never be 'freed'. Believing or hoping otherwise is a pipedream and a waste of our time. It is what it is.

My second point: I consider Fireworks abandonware. A portable version of Fireworks CS6 is relatively easily found on the web. It runs from a folder, and installation not required. This version is what I use to open older Fireworks files of mine. It doesn't need activation or Adobe's servers.

I realize this is a very grey area. But I pay for Adobe CC, and I feel it is within my rights to be able to run Fireworks. So I run a hacked version. Simple as that.

My third point: CHANGE is HARD. And PAINFUL. And INCONVENIENT. But the only constant in the universe that we live is in change. By now there are alternative options that actually do things (much) better than Fireworks. And FIreworks misses a lot of export options that are expected for currect web and screen design.

I did not like moving away from Fireworks when I did. I saw the signs on the wall when Adobe acquired Macromedia. I expected Adobe management to stop Fireworks development rather sooner than later. So I slowly made the transition to other software and pipelines.

Yes, I agree with you @IAMark that Fireworks works just fine as-is. It still runs in Windows. (not Mac). But we either change with the world or the world leaves us behind. Simple as that. If we do not change, we relinquish the little control we have over our own already tiny sphere of influence.

Photoshop is not a good comparison, because Photoshop is an industry standard (although certainly in decline and even wavering in a number of industries!). Of course Adobe will not discontinue it.

Fireworks, however, is entirely unimportant, irrelevant, and a dead software. Again: I don't like it either what happened to it. But we either change, grow, and evolve, or wither and die. (Well, we all do at some point anyway lol 😄)

[rayek.elfin]

PS I dislike Photoshop. I moved away from Photoshop for all my own personal and freelance work. I still have to use it for clients, of course. But I use alternatives for 95% of what I need to do, often just copying stuff from other software into layers in Photoshop or exporting to PSD and prepare a client file.

[IAMark]

I appreciate the long, considered reply.

But I think you've misconstrued my meaning.  I'm not suggesting that Adobe make FW free to the world.  I'm simply asking that they let current users keep using it.  Choosing to pull that access leaves users like me and many others with decades worth of source files they can no longer edit.  While it may be unimportant and irrelevant to you, it's not to us.

Thanks!

[rik ed]

Yeah. I agree.
I'd be more than happy with that.
Over the past 18-24 months I've had to teach myself how to work in PhotoShop.
And it's a shocker. It's so unintuitive I rarely remember how to do certain tasks that I had down pat in Fireworks. But between me and Google I'm getting there.
But I worked for so long in Fireworks, quickly and efficiently, that I'm always coming across legacy files that I need to open and work up. Even if it's just to push out a PSD version.
Frankly though, Fireworks is so friendly, I usually just do my update edit and I'm done.

[rayek.elfin]

I still use Fireworks myself to open older files when required and converting those. That is why I installed the 'portable' version years ago. Adobe isn't interested in keeping Fireworks working for existing users.

I myself encountered the same activation issues and decided to look for an alternative approach to keep Fireworks running. My suggestion is to consider doing the same and no longer worry about activation woes.

[Nancy OShea]

@IAMark & @j3Nx,

Adobe has no interest in maintaining discontinued software that ended in 2012.  Sorry.

For years, I've been telling FW users to prepare for the end & export layered PNGs to TIFF or PSD files "NOW while you still can." 

As a workaround, try this app:

- PhotoPea: https://www.photopea.com/

Hope that helps & best of luck. 

[IAMark]

I was kinda waiting for you to pop up.  Hi!

It really doesn't require maintenance though, does it? 

And FWIW... it's not that I want access to the layers... I want to work on the documents, period.  And seeing as the Creative Studio version was, in fact, an off-the-shelf purchase, it seems to me that at the very least, those of us who bought it, bought it outright and should have access to it.

Thanks - and thanks for the link.

[Nancy OShea]

Read the CS6 EULA (pdf). 

https://www.adobe.com/content/dam/cc/en/legal/licenses-terms/pdf/CS6.pdf

Creative Suite was never forever software.  Your limited license to use it was for as long as it remained compatible with your computer's operating system (Windows® XP or Windows 7) and Adobe could keep making it available. Back then, the expected shelf-life was 3-5 years.

Product support for FW ended 18 months after release.  Since 2014, you've been using FW CS6 at your own risk.  It's dissapointing to learn that old software can't be accessed anymore but it's not unexpected.

FIREWORKS ALTERNATIVES:

- Photoshop Elements: https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-elements.html
- Photoshop CC: https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop.html

- Illustrator CC: https://www.adobe.com/products/illustrator.html

OTHER TOOLS (raster & vector):
===========
- Affinity Photo & Affinity Designer: https://affinity.serif.com
- CorelDRAW Graphics Suite: https://www.coreldraw.com/
- GIMP: https://www.gimp.org/
- Gravit Designer: https://www.designer.io/en/
- Inkscape: https://inkscape.org/
- Krita: https://krita.org/
- Paint.NET: https://www.getpaint.net/
- PaintShop Pro: https://www.paintshoppro.com/
- PhotoPea: https://www.photopea.com/
- Photo Pos Pro: https://www.photopos.com/PPP3_BS/Default.aspx
- Pixlr: https://pixlr.com/
- Vctr: https://vectr.com/

[B i r n o u]

I understand what some people are saying when they warn us about Fw's administrative obsolescence, and point to alternatives. I also applaud Ivan Kuckir's remarkable work in making it possible with Photopea to virtually reopen native Fw files while preserving their internal structure.

However, I also realize to what extent people who have never used Fw * don't understand the power of this tool, its simplicity of use, its ergonomics, its extensibility and the catalog of extensions always available (which, by the way, no software can really rival today). ... and the icing on the cake is that today, even though there have been no updates for over 10 years **... despite intensive, daily use, Fw continues to satisfy the needs of thousands of users, smoothly, without latency, and with as much simplicity as ever.

@IAMark 's approach is completely understandable, to enable current Fw users to continue using it, and if new OS no longer allow Fw to be launched, don't worry, we're in the middle of the virtualization era, and processors are increasingly designed to integrate this type of approach, so there will always be a virtual machine that allows an old system to launch Fw.

Adobe, please read this exchange... thank you.

* By this I mean, a real use of Fw in an intensive and thorough manner, therefore producing with it starting from the model to the interface elements through customer validation tests and batch processing, whynot have been part of the user community and having regularly discussed the needs of website and application developers, both with Macromedia, Adobe and third-party developers. In short, having actually used Fw for real and often complex needs.

** Let's stop at 10 years, but ask ourselves how long Fw's updates have been cosmetic. So how long has the core of this tool been updated? 15 years?... and it still runs, it reminds me of my Mustang 68 convertible... which remained in the United States when I returned to France (for the same reasons....)

*** Don't look, there's no 3-star rating reference,... as @rayek.elfin I just wanted to mention a piece of software in this thread, since for him too we could say the same things... Freehand.

[rayek.elfin]

Ah, Freehand! I remember a time when I used and taught Illustrator, Freehand, and CorelDraw. I preferred both Freehand and CorelDraw over Illustrator then, and still feel Illustrator is somewhat clunky in use, and rather prefer to use alternatives.

As for Fireworks: it would be great if Adobe would decide to remove the licensing/activation from Fireworks and just allow existing FW users to unlock their Fireworks installation for as long as it runs on their machine(s).

You @B i r n o u and I probably agree that that is never going to happen for various reasons, including ones I listed in an earlier post in this thread. Photopea is great for conversion, but nothing beats having access to Fireworks directly, of course. So in my case I decided to move forward a while ago with a 'portable' version, since my ethics do not clash with myself running a patched version of Fireworks whilst I pay for the entire Creative Suite. 

It works perfectly, no issues, doesn't require activation, and therefore solves all problems for myself. Trusting Adobe to solve this for Fireworks users is admirable, but hardly realistic 😉

I agree with you that Fireworks does feature a number of things that I haven't seen anywhere else, and sometimes I do miss (for example) the full-screen/document optimization tab... Would love to see that in other software. And how recyclable layers work in Fireworks is quite nice as well.

For my freelance and personal work a combo of PhotoLine, a lineup of plugins, and Krita/Figma replace Fireworks, and feature functionality that far surpasses Fireworks (expected since times have moved on). But I will always look back at my time with Fireworks and Freehand with a feeling of fondness.

[B i r n o u]

do you remember, or did you ever heard about Ron Rockwell

[rayek.elfin]

Not the name itself, but after a bit of duckduckgoing I do remember this book:

https://archive.org/details/freehand10fxdesi0000rock/mode/1up

And this illustration:

[B i r n o u]

I still do have a double CD about video training (2004)... still amazing how Fh was (and is) still above much modern solution out there

sorry I forgot to reset the scan's settings... so low and B&W resolution... 😞

[Haybro]

Thank you. I am so SO tired of the "oh well it overlapped with Photoshop so we got rid of it lol" no it didn't!!! It's apples and oranges but because Photoshop has (fairly poor) vector capability and raster capability it's "totally the same".

Fireworks deserves better. They should relaunch it. Nothing compares. At all.

[Nancy OShea]

• Photoshop is lightyears ahead of 12 year old FW.
• Use Illustrator or Inkscape for vector graphics.
• FW is never coming back. Sorry.

[rayek.elfin]

While I agree with you that Fireworks is a unique entity in design software, I disagree that nothing compares. PhotoLine, for example, also combines bitmap and vector editing in one comprehensive package, and is updated to meet modern requirements for web and screen design output. Another example is Figma, which is used today for much of the work that Fireworks was used for 15 years ago.

Fireworks in its current state lacks many export options that are expected today. I loved working in Fireworks, and I agree that a small set of features would be very welcome in other applications, but the program has aged quite a bit. And it just doesn't support modern workflows anymore.

To bring it back and relaunch Fireworks would require a complete rewrite of its core export workflow. Nor are its base features still able to compete with most modern graphics software - even free and open source ones.