Why did you get rid of fireworks?

[LuckCharm]

I miss fireworks. Why did you get rid of it? Such a silly idea. So many people love it.

[B i r n o u]

don't feel alone, it's amazing how many users you come across on a regular basis, https://community.adobe.com/t5/fireworks-discussions/adobe-please-revive-fireworks/m-p/12656926/page...,  without forgetting the magnificent tool that sometimes, when we find ourselves stuck either by a recalcitrant serial number, or a fussy OS... does us a lot of favors, thanks again to Ivan Kuckir https://community.adobe.com/t5/fireworks-discussions/open-fireworks-png-files-without-fireworks-and-...

[Paul-M]

Still nothing quite like Fireworks, it is superb still without any updates for 10 years!!

[B i r n o u]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Here at the studio, we're continually amazed at the ever-present, efficient, fast, ergonomic capabilities that Fw still possesses, even after 10 years of no update at all.

I'm currently working on a tool that will enable webp and avif transformation... and @L e n a works on an article that will help us to quickly understand the advantages of such a tool in a modern web design, mockup and rought, and a second one that will enable to getting started with the sniffer (that I talk about earlier) to be used to transform files into optimized formats on the fly in current projects.

She already gathered various URLs and processes to install, activate and launch Fw... https://www-puce--et--media-com.translate.goog/fireworks-chaud-devant/?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr... the article is always updated as new discoveries are made... I think she's quoting you  (if you don't mind).... 😉

[rayek.elfin]

@B i r n o uI used to be an avid FireWorks user back in the day. Nowadays I could not imagine using it, because (at least for me) it is missing core essential functionality.

And I dislike working in either Photoshop or Illustrator. Affinity doesn't cut it for me either due to a clunky workflow and missing core functionality.

But this discusses the shortcomings of Fireworks. You may think that I dislike FireWorks after reading this list, but I really do not. I loved working in it when it was relevant.

To name but a few core issues:

[1] Anti-aliasing control. Yes: text includes good options. Otherwise it lacks control over (placed) bitmap graphics and how those are rendered. Also see (3). And the quality of the anti-aliasing leaves a lot to be desired. This is important to get right.

[2] Lack of a real-time workflow. Most visual controls have to be confirmed in FireWorks before the view is updated. In modern workflows visual changes are applied in real-time when the user edits visual properties. In FW it leads to more trial and error and time lost. I find this really frustrating in FireWorks. It's clunky and counter-intuitive. UX has moved on.

[3] Lack of image interpolation/resampling methods. At the very least offer CatmullRom and a few others. No such luck - worse than Photoshop and Illustrator (which are not that great either...). Yes, it matters for final image quality. I may be a nitpicker, but it does matter.

[4] Old-fashioned outdated set of vector tools. Things have moved on. Compare modern updated vector illustration tools (have you seen the latest Inkscape?) and you will find that FireWorks is far FAR behind in this regard.

It wouldn't be such an issue if a round-tripping workflow could be set up with other vector apps (see [8] ) via the use SVG but the lack of proper SVG support and difficulties of integrating FW in an existing pipeline do require a focus on the limited vector tools that are on offer.

[5] quite a few (all?) of the Filters are outdated and lack finesse and/or control. For example, bevel does not offer a custom curve. And the render quality is questionable and (to me) unusable in production. Again, times have moved on in this regard.

And the number of filters available is quite limited compared to current bitmap editing tools.

[6] extremely clunky and limited bitmap editing tools. Severe lack of functionality in regard to channel editing or masking in general. It is laughably simplistic in its approach to bitmap editing and lacks a non-destructive work paradigm. Compare the workflow in PhotoLine (also combines bitmap with vector tools in one program) and it is easy to see where FireWorks fails. Or Affinity. The fact that FireWorks is a 2-in-1 tool is no excuse for its limitations (even at the time when it was released in my opinion - it forced me to move away from FW at the time).

[7] As mentioned already, FireWorks cannot accommodate a modern file format workflow. WebP, Avif, Animated PNG, Animated WebP... Not possible without external tools or more complex pipelines. But thereal  issue is the core workflow which is still based on slicing. A much simpler workflow is the one where each page/group/layer/object is assigned export properties. (Figma, PhotoLine, etc.)
Nor is it possible to easily export multiple versions at different resolutions and/or using varying file formats in one step. 

Control over optimization is relatively limited as well compared to other tools. FireWorks used to be top dog here, but those times are long gone. Dithering options, anyone?

[8] It is not easy to integrate FireWorks in a pipeline where it works seamlessly together with other software. For example, in PhotoLine it takes a few seconds to set up a live round-trip connection with Inkscape or other export tools.

I can send a vector layer/group to Inkscape with one shortcut key, edit the objects in InkScape, save, and switch back to PhotoLine where the layers are updated. and the connection remains live, so I can switch back and forth without having to worry about saving/exporting and loading files.

Same with Krita when I require more "out-there" filters or bitmap effects.

Super convenient and it saves a lot of time.

It can be argued that software such as Photoshop and Illustrator do not offer such functionality either, but the industry caters for that via plugins.

[9] other missing things such as a dark mode, full screen mode, missing CSS conversion support, and so on. The list is long.

BUT! I do still love:

[1] the share layer options. I wish I had those in other software. Xara has it, but I do not use that software in my work. I am amazed that particular feature hasn't made it in other software. It would save me quite a bit of time.

[2] the simple master page system.

It was easy to love FireWorks at its heyday. But those days are long gone, and I personally would miss too many things and core workflow bits. I fired up FW (see what I did there? 😉 ) the other day, and it just felt as if I stepped back in the previous century. I could not imagine using it in my work.

Nostalgy is a good thing, yet it shouldn't get in the way of getting things done efficiently and at a high standard. My time is precious to me 🙂

All that said: use whichever software works for you for your job. If FireWorks remains good enough for what you need: more power to you!

[Abambo]

As Adobe decided to stop the evolution of Fireworks, most of yor points are mood. It reminds me to comparing an original IBM PC to a current Windows machine. Which is the hearth of the discussion. A software that does not evolve is end of life, if you still sell it or not. But if you sell it, you need to provide support, which is a big cost factor. Also, there may be third party licences attached to the software, making it impossible to distribute software for free. 

From time to time, third party licenses even disrupt current products, like the Pantone issue, that you can't solve with workarounds. We are living in a most complex world and each product a company sells needs to make some kind of profit. Going EOL with a product is always disruppting the workflow of the users of that product. You need to plan your transition. 

[Nancy OShea]

I feel it's relevant to add here that Muse and serveral other user-to-user communities like this one were recently switched to READ ONLY status.

Discussions in READ ONLY communities will continue to be accessible but nobody can reply or post new questions in them.

Going forward, users of these discontinued products will have to fend for themselves or switch to alternative products that enjoy active development.

• Illustrator Draw
• Muse
• Media Server
• Photoshop Mix
• Photoshop Fix
• Photoshop Sketch
• Prelude
• Premiere Clip

I mention this because the candle on this community could go out at any time.

[B i r n o u]

@L e n a has just pointed out that the links on the page work very poorly from google translate, so I advise you to keep both pages open, FR and EN, one for the links and the other for the translation.

[Nancy OShea]

Why did you get rid of it?

By @LuckCharm

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You're not talking to Adobe here.  This community is 100% user-based.

Fireworks isn't the only app Adobe have cancelled, and it certainly won't be the last.  Out with the old; in with the new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Discontinued_Adobe_software

[B i r n o u]

yes, it's true that Fw isn't young, but how effective is he? .... he's a rare commodity.

[Nancy OShea]

how effective is he?

By @B i r n o u

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Not too good with modern web technologies I'm afraid.  FW can't support or export to WebP or AVIF files -- the new web file formats.  Fortunately, other image editors do understand the new file types as do most major browsers. 

https://developer.chrome.com/en/docs/lighthouse/performance/uses-webp-images/

No sense clinging to the past for sentimental reasons. The future is here. Modern software is the way forward.

[B i r n o u]

it's true that you often tell us that you don't read all the threads, because you're in too much of a hurry to answer the active and suffering questions, but if you take a few moments to go back a few posts above you'll see that in mentioning @L e n a's article, I was explaining that I'd developed a routine in Node that allows export to WebP and Avif.

just out of curiosity, since you claim so strongly that Fw is outdated, and no longer suitable, could you please just mention us how long you've actually and really used Fw in production? and if so, what makes it so that today it's no longer the case... what's lacking in Fw?... please... don't escape this question by diverting the subject as you know so well how to do... 

[Nancy OShea]

it's true that you often tell us that you don't read all the threads, because you're in too much of a hurry to answer the active and suffering questions....

By @B i r n o u

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How about this @B i r n o u,  you do you and I'll do me.  😜

Jump to latest reply

Far be it for me to criticize a fellow Community Expert in a public discussion.  And I'm not going to start now. If you have a problem with my use of the Jump to Latest Reply link, I invite you to bring your topic to the Back Room where we can discuss it with fellow Community Experts.

Insofar as NODE goes, congratulations.  The majority of FW users don't know what NODE is or why they would ever need it to create WebP or AVIF files.  😕

For anyone who is interested, AVIF plugin for Photoshop (saves images in 8, 10 or 12 bits/channel).

https://avif.io/blog/tutorials/photoshop/#photoshopavifplugin

Photoshop's public BETA release features AI Generative Fill which transforms the way we think about images. Users can quickly add to, remove, or replace images right in Photoshop with simple text prompts powered by Adobe Firefly generative AI. 

These and about 20-30 other features that FW can't hold a candle to are why End of Life FW is obsolete. If you wish to keep using FW and your computer can support legacy ware from 10+ years ago, have at it. Personally & professionally, I need modern tools. 😃

[B i r n o u]

I'm sorry you took my question as a personal attack. Far from it. Once again I'm sorry, and that's not my intention.

I was just saying, at the same level as you, not stronger, not weaker, but the opposite, that Fw remains a high-performance tool despite its proclaimed obsolescence... and let's make no mistake about it, if Adobe continues 10 years later to maintain Fw as a download from any CC account, it's because the community that continues to use it isn't as small as all that.

But as I thought, you sidestepped the question, and didn't tell us if you'd ever used Fw in production.

[Nancy OShea]

I'm not side stepping anything.  For the laundry list of reasons above, I use Photoshop for raster images and Illustrator for vector artwork.

Many years ago, I used Fireworks & Freehand as part of a Macromedia give-away.  But IMO Photoshop & Illustrator were far superior for commercial print projects. I had greater control over ink colors (Pantones), bleeds, and print quality presets.  Shortly thereafter, Macromedia went out of business and the rest is history.

When activation of CS6 stops as it has for previous versions of Creative Suite,  I foresee an end to the legacy apps currently available to Creative Cloud subscribers.  That phase out will probably begin at the Enterprise & Team levels.  So hopefully, we'll have some advance notice before FW comes to it's final end.

In the meantime, I urge all legacy product users to find other tools now before they're forced to.  And to export their layered PNGs to other file types (PSD or TIFF) that are supported by other software.

[B i r n o u]

Many years ago, I used Fireworks & Freehand as part of a Macromedia give-away.  But IMO Photoshop & Illustrator were far superior for commercial print projects. I had greater control over ink colors (Pantones), bleeds, and print quality presets. 

By @Nancy OShea

it's certain that if you used Fw for printing purposes, you weren't necessarily betting on the right horse... ... but the developers who continue to use Fw, don't use Fw for print, but to create graphic components, or interface composition for the web...
please just read, Andre's article (and in the title, it's clear, he talks about webdesign) https://www.reinegger.net/50_reasons_not_to_use_photoshop_for_webdesign.html

In the meantime, I urge all legacy product users to find other tools now before they're forced to.  And to export their layered PNGs to other file types (PSD or TIFF) that are supported by other software.

By @Nancy OShea

Yes you right, and I fully agree, that's why Ivan did a great job, for the day when there's no turning back https://community.adobe.com/t5/fireworks-discussions/open-fireworks-png-files-without-fireworks-and-...

and in any case...

never forget that Fw is natively capable of exporting and opening PSD files, not to mention the many highly complex and comprehensive export extensions, compatible with automation scripts, that the extension developers have graciously made available.

[Abambo]

I miss fireworks. Why did you get rid of it? Such a silly idea. So many people love it.

By @LuckCharm

Please replace fireworks with your preferred software.

But for Fireworks, it's still there.

A company needs to regularly evaluate whether it's worth the effort. Yes, it would be nice to still have this and that. But there are plenty of companies who kept products that were no longer in demand, hard to keep up with, and slow to come out. They are all gone.

[Nancy OShea]

But for Fireworks, it's still there.

By @Abambo

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Discontinued apps are only there for paid Creative Cloud members with an ALL Apps plan and a supporting computer OS that can run legacy 32-bit apps.   Be sure to check the Show Older Versions option box in Creative Cloud Desktop App.

[B i r n o u]

Discontinued apps are only there for paid Creative Cloud members with an ALL Apps plan and a supporting computer OS that can run legacy 32-bit apps.  

By @Nancy OShea

yes, Fw is still available... but I can't find Fl, Fr, Di, Edge... to name but a few, but which goes to show just how special Fw is. 😉