Beginning FrameMaker user question

[Guest]

I have near zero experience with Framemaker.  During my thesis days, I used framemaker for a short while and reverted back to latex!  Last 10+ years, I have been using Microsoft Word.

Now, after I finished about 30% of the book, my publisher is pushing me to switch to Framemaker.  (I have concluded that either this Framemaker thing is the BEST software EVER WRITTEN or my editor really really hates Microsoft Word! :-):-))

Since everyone here has more experience with Framemaker, I am asking for some guidance about the following:

I have about 10 chapters of a graduate engineering book that has a lot of visio digrams, tables and a LOT of equations.  Equations have all been created using Microsoft Word 2007 equation editor.

I need to first import this into a book under framemaker and then continue writing under Framemaker.  I don't have the luxury of first learning the software for several hours and then starting to use it.  So I am looking for pointers on a quick way to get productive again with this.

Here are my particular questions:

1.  What is the best way to reliably import the current word document into a framemaker book?  (Currently, it is a single word file and one of the reasons for moving to Framemaker is to be able to deal with separate files for each chapter.  I don't mind creating a separate file for each chapter in Word - if it comes to that.)

2.  What is the best place to learn about the procedure for doing the task described in the previous question?

3.  What is a good reference - either electronic or the dead-tree version - that I need once I start using Framemaker?  The software I have is Framemaker 9.0, and it seems to be too new for any books yet.  But is it close enough to Framemaker 8 that I can get away with a older book for my current purposes?

4.  How does the import of Visio diagrams work with Framemaker, going forward?

If you have other useful suggestions, I also welcome them.

Thanks for your time.

Cheers; 'best,

shankar swamy

[Art Campbell]

Without knowing how the Word file was constructed....

Try saving the Word file out as RTF and open that in Frame, just to see what it looks like. I suspect you'll have problems with the Visio files and perhaps with the equations, but you don't know until you try. If it comes in cleanly, from Frame, do a SaveAs to MIF format to remove hidden Word characters and codes. Then open that, select each chapters' contents and paste it into a new Frame file. That gives you a set of discrete Frame files. Create a book and add the component files to it and you're on your way.

One item you didn't mention is whether you have a template for the chapters or not. You'll need one, hopefully an empty file, from which to impose formatting on the component files in the book.

If you run into problems getting everything to export from Word and import into Frame cleanly:

1. If the equations are in final form, you may be able to save them as graphics and import those. If you suspect they'll need editing, you're going to need to do some research on how the MS eqation editor saves files and how it can export them. Worst case you can output the Word file as a high resolution PDF and extract graphics from that.

2. If the Visio graphics are actually Visio files, they were probably set up in Word as OLE objects. Because this is a MS tool, it doesn't translate too well into other environments. I wouldn't expect it to work with FM 8, but FM 9 should be more reliable. The better strategy again is to attempt to save them out as a graphic format from Visio and import those into the Frame file by reference.

Depending on the Word version, you may be able to SaveAs HTML and end up with a folder full of graphics, and hopefully equations, nicely separated from the text for you.

FM 9 has a totally different interface than previous versions, but the core program operations are only slightly changed -- new features have been added, but core operations are pretty much the same.

[Guest]

This does not sound positive at all.

I need to be able to edit those equations, figures, text and everything, after I import them.  So converting anything to tiff or some other format that is not editable in its native format is not an option.

This is almost telling me that I have to do type setting all those equations all over again!?

Is there someone who has tried importing equations from Word 2007 into Framemaker in a way that it can still be edited in Framemaker using its equation editor?

For whatever it is worth, the word files were created using Microsoft Word 2007.

On a related note, how good is Framemaker in importing Visio drawings?  Can I cut and paste from Visio into Framemaker?

Thanks, again.

Cheers; 'best,

shankar swamy

[Russ Ward]

Shankar,

If you continue with the migration, this will not be a quick process. If you must have it quick, I would consider resisting your publisher's demands if possible, at least until you have more time to address it properly.

FrameMaker is by far the better long document publisher. However, you have done at least two things which will give you lots of trouble:

- Equations. Whenever you use the native equation tools of an application, you are likely to be stuck in that application to use those equations. I believe the same would be true if you had built a bunch of equations with FrameMaker's tools, then wanted to convert to Word. I think your only option is to convert to a fully third-party equation tool, such as MathType, then reinsert all them. Maybe MathType has some automatic means of conversion... I don't know, but even if it did, the process would take a while and would require lots of manual scrutiny to make sure you have it right.

- Visio diagrams. Your plan to "copy" diagrams into FrameMaker is based on the OLE process, where they would be embedded into the files as editable objects. I assume this is how you are using them in Word. While FrameMaker somewhat supports this, everyone who knows anything about it will strongly recommend against it. There are numerous problems with OLE and FrameMaker, some of which just pop up out of nowhere even after successful use for a long time. So, don't expect that you can do this. You can export your Visio diagrams into some kind of image format then reference them in your FrameMaker files which works very well, but again, this is an extra step.

Also, one more thing... you will need to take some time to learn FrameMaker, whether you want to or not. Most everyone here will agree that FrameMaker is the better tool, but I don't think it will be quick or easy to convert.

Russ

[Van Kurtz]

I have never done it, but from others comments on here, I think you will have problems with importing native Visio files, even by reference. Art is saying that you should convert your Visio diagrams into a format that Frame handles better, typically EPS or PDF. Be sure to import them by reference. Your workflow would be edit the diagrams in Visio, save the Visio file, then export as EPS or PDF, which are then imported by reference into Frame. An alternative is to switch to a graphics editor that is can handle EPS or PDF files directly, such as Illustrator.

I have never used the equation editor in Word and have used the Frame equation editor only a little. I am not thrilled with the quality of equations that either produces. If I had to create a book that had lots of equations, I would use TeX or LaTeX. You can always save it as PDF to send to your publisher. Or use a TeX system to create the equations, save each as an EPS file, and then import them into Frame as graphics files by reference.

I know that this is NOT what you want to hear, but they are my limited thoughts on the subject. Hopefully, there are others on this forum that can provide better solutions.

Good luck,

Van

[Art_Campbell1]

I think if you're expecting to find experts on the proprietary Microsoft Word equation editor in a FrameMaker forum, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

But as I said before, save the Word file as RTF and open it in Frame to see what you get. While it's nice that you're anticipating solutions to potential problems, until you try a basic procedure, you don't know what you're dealing with. Do the first step first, then figure out how to proceed.

Cheers,

Art

[Arnis Gubins]

Shankar,

Word's equation editor is basically a dumbed down version of Design Science's MathType. Your best bet with the equations is to get the MathType product (latest version is v.6.5. See: http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/ ) , save as EPS files and then import the EPS files by Reference into FrameMaker. For click-editing in FM, just set the .eps format as your default association with MathType.

Importing Visio files into FM for maintaining highest fidelity for publishing is best done by creating PDFs from Visio and then importing those by reference into FM.

[galson]

A colleague is converting a Word document to FM. The Word doc contains some Visio diagrams that she wants to import by reference so the source Visio files can be modified by developers and their edits will be automatically updated in the imported object within FM.

Are we dreaming in Technocolor?

Thanks for any wisdom.

~Gay

[Arnis Gubins]

You could use OLE links, but that's like putting a viper in your pants.

The best way to maintain high-quality content from Visio is to create a PDF. Then import the PDF by reference into FM. The onus would be on the oners updating the Visio content to create the PDFs with the same name and place it in the same location when updating.

[galson]

Interesting workaround, Arnis, thanks!

I'll relay the suggestion to my colleague and see if she has luck getting her SMEs to do their part of the equation...

Always a pleasure, sir  ;~)

Cheers,

Gay

[126Remy126]

Hello Swamy,

I have been using FM 8 for about 8 months and will never go back to MS Word. Unfortunatley, learning FM, any version, from ground zero will take a bit of time - more than a couple of weeks I'm sorry to say. I bought every book I could find for version 8 and took a class at the community college. Downloaded loads of templates (you'll need templates), and joined this forum. I don't post very often but read almost every email that comes across. I came across some rather good online tutorials from Scriptorium. These tutorials are for version 8 and come with sample files to work through the exercises. You can work through version 8 and apply the same process to version 9. Perhaps you will find them helpful:

http://www.scriptorium.com/palimpsest/2008/07/interesting-times.html

FM101 - unstructured

FM102 - structured

Best luck, Remy

[MrMathType — Retired]

Art said, "I think if you're expecting to find experts on the proprietary Microsoft Word equation editor in a FrameMaker forum, you're probably looking in the wrong place."

Allow me to self-proclaim as an expert in Equation Editor and MathType. FrameMaker, on the other hand, not so much. I do know though, you've already gotten an excellent answer about using MathType with FrameMaker, from Arnis (#6 in the list). That advice was right on -- use EPS. However, let me point out a few other tidbits...

• Both MathType and FrameMaker are OLE apps. That means you can drag MathType equations directly from either MathType or Word 2007 and drop them right into FrameMaker (or copy/paste). To edit, double-click the equation, make the edits in MathType, and when you close MathType, your edits are saved. (However, your equations won't be EPSs if you do that.)
• Since your work is in Word 2007, using the OMML equation editor (OMML = Office Math Markup Language; that's the "new" equation editor), you're pretty much out of luck if you try to copy them from Word and paste them in FrameMaker. Try it; you'll see what I mean.
• Here's where you're in luck: MathType will convert all of those OMML equations into MathType equations, giving you all the benefits I've mentioned here and Arnis mentioned in his response. To do this, look in MathType Help for instructions on the Convert Equations command. Once you've done that, you've got a Word 2007 document with a bunch of MathType equations -- still not where you want to be, but halfway.
• Now use MathType's Export Equations command to convert all the equations into EPS files, then import by Reference into FrameMaker.

Bob Mathews

Design Science, Inc.

[Arnis Gubins]

Thanks for the expert advice Bob and welcome to the Forum!

Personally, I'd shy away from using OLE with FrameMaker. It's one of those things that you never know when it will bite. Murphy's Law dictates that it will always happen at the most inconvenient time...

[MrMathType — Retired]

Yeah, I agree about OLE & FrameMaker. I think your advice about EPS was the right way to go anyway. I just threw in OLE for a complete picture.

Thanks for the welcome. Honestly I spend more time over on the InDesign Forum, but I search every day for any posts on any Adobe forum with the word MathType in the post, so I'll definitely see anything that mentions MathType. If it's like the ID forum though, much of the time a community expert will chime in with a perfect response before I get there, so I won't necessarily respond to everything mentioning MathType.

Bob

[peter minneapolis · Accepted solution]

Long ago, in a FrameMaker universe far away, square1.nl used to
advertise either a product or service or both that converted various
graphics to editable FM graphics. Give them a try.

Also, there used to be a conversion utility that converted from latex
to mif or the other way about, or perhaps both. I don't know if it
would help you to find a way to convert, create anew, or recreate your
Word equations to latex, then to FM; I'm not sure if the utility works
for equations. I'm also not sure if it's a FM-unix-only utility, or if
there's a Windows version. Just a wild stab here.

FM9's interface offers radically-different appearances than any
earlier FM you may know, but many of the frequently-used features and
commands are still accessible through the FM menus, though some call
up the new interface items, and some call the old ones. Adobe has a
free online webcast of the FM 9 interface in use; perhaps some list
member can provide the link. It's not only educational about the UI,
but also about using it in a number of common situations.

IMO, anyone who's comfortable in latex should be able to manage in FM,
especially with some recovered-memory experience, and the resources of
this and other FM lists.

Good luck! Keep in touch with the list for assistance. It's always
educational to me (and probably many others, too) just what
interesting and creative corners you can paint yourself into when
converting to or from FM<G>.

Regards,

Peter
__________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

[Mike Wickham]

Adobe has a

free online webcast of the FM 9 interface in use; perhaps some list

member can provide the link.

This may be the one you mean: http://www.adobe.com/support/framemaker/. It's

the FrameMaker 9

Interface video, listed under Highlights.

Mike Wickham

[Guest]

Thanks to everyone of you who responded to my question - overall, my questions are answered in essence.

The most disappointing part of the reality for me was that importing Visio drawings to Framemaker is not quite where I would have liked it to be; and the same about equations in Microsoft Word.

The biggest advantage I see in moving to Framemaker - strictly from my usage models and work-flows - is the ability to treat each chapter the way Framemaker does.  Word is horribly bad at that, and from what I have gathered, Framemaker is really good at that!

Of course the biggest disadvantage is the time penalty I have to pay move the stuff I have currently, and the knowledge of Word and Visio that I have accumulated over the years that I will most likely not put to use.  I knew I should have stuck with Latex!:-)

Following the discussion here, I indicated to my publishers that if they were willing to get the current portion of my work to Framemaker, I will switch.

Thank you very much for taking time off to answer my question - you have been a great help!

Cheers; 'best,

shankar swamy

[Guest]

It was a while ago I ran into this problem and posted a question here.

Here is how it finally got resolved -

Word 2007 has an option to save in the pre-2007 format.  I used it and then imported the exported file  into Framemaker.  The equation was the main sticking point in Word 2007 format.  But that got resolved as Word converted the equtions into images while exporting to the older format.

There were some minor issues like the figures arbitrarily floating around etc.  I had to go back to Word and fix those, before importing.

Thanks to everyone who responded to the query and provided valuable suggestions.

Cheers; 'best,

shankar swamy