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I have noticed several times now this happening.
If I have two documents open and in view at the same time (in separate windows, not tabs on the same window) and I change the definition of a variable, if both docs have the same variable, it changes the definition in the WRONG DOCUMENT. It will make this same mistake over and over again. It's like I can't get it to change the variable in the correct document unless I close the other one. this is really dangerous for the work I do. It would be easy for me to assume I edited the correct document when I in fact edited the wrong one.
Has anyone else seen this happen? Is there any way to fix this?
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More essential information needed: what version, including "pxxx" numbers, as shown in Help > About. What O/S. What service pack.
Also, pls update your other forum thread with this info also, makes it a lot easier for folks to offer assistance when this info is easily available.
Sheila
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Version: FM9.0 p255, with updates installed.
OS: Windows XP Pro Service pack 3.
thanks
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... open and in view at the same time (in separate windows, not tabs on the same window)
are these both open in the same instance of Frame, or are multiple copies of Frame running?
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same instance of Frame..... however now it's not doing it. I have rebooted my machine since the problem... wonder if that helped. I will try to re-enact the problem and take a screenshot next time it happens.
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Gary,
I do not work with variables, so this is just a guess.
Maybe your original problem was that you did not have the correct window active, that is, in focus. Just click in the window for the file whose variable you want to change JUST BEFORE you select the command, or whatever it is you do.
Van
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OK, it happened again and I took screenshots. it's actually not just editing variables. it seems like it's many things, when I have multiple documents that are tiled open.
this time I had the cursor in one doc, and changed the paragraph tag. right when I chose it from the paragraph catalog, the "focus" changed to the other document and it changed the paragraph tag in the spot where the cursor was in the OTHER document. this is really bad!
here are before and after screenshots.
note in the first one, I circled how the focus is on the top document and I also circled where the cursor was. I just opened the paragraph catalog, scrolled down to the tag I wanted, and clicked on it. right before I chose the tag, the focus was still on the top document. right when I clicked on the tag I wanted, this is what happened.
note, the focus changed to the other document, and you can see that the paragraph tag changed in that column heading I circled, where the cursor was previously in that document.
Either I'm missing something, or this is a bad bug.
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Sorry, but I've never noticed in either FM9 or FM10, but I never have my docs arranged like you do on your screen. I leave mine as tabs on the top or drag them completely over to my other monitor.
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this is happening so bad now... I can't for the life of me do something as simple as change the character tag on selected text on the top document. every single time it switches back to the bottom document. the only way I can change a tag on the top document is to close the bottom one, or move it to tabbed mode. this is really bad!
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I've definitely seen instability in FM9p255 / WinXP that usually manifests after some period of fairly intense work, say maybe an hour and a half or so, and as you've found it clears up when FM is closed (although I generally reboot, not just open / close FM). I suspect a memory leak that could probably be detected by running the Sysinternals Process Monitor or other tools, http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals but I've never taken the time to do so.
Just out of curiosity, approx. how many user variables do you have in your typical docs?
One issue for FM9 is that using workspaces often causes instability; in particular (for me) having the variables pod open causes difficulty with multiple docs or large numbers of variables. The problem with the pods is that FM is constantly updating the display of the pod, so any tiny little memory leak gets magnified very quickly.
There's a long thread here about how to de-pod the workspaces; be sure to read through it to the end because my paroxysm of code at the beginning of the post isn't necessary, others posted easier ways at the end of the thread:
Adobe Forums: Steps to "de-pod" workspaces in FM 9
Tables, too, are a contributing instability factor that I've come across in FM9 vs. say, FM7.2, as noted in the above thread.
Sheila
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thanks Sheila, it's unfortunate (and scary to me) that this bug exists because I often have one document open that I'm comparing to, and another that I'm editing. it is very easy with this bug for me to think I'm making a formatting change in one but it goes in the wrong document. If I'm not extremely focused on this possibility I can see all kinds of issues. But I suppose that knowing the problem is there and other people have it is helpful.
I would not say that I'm doing intensive editing when this happens, nor do I have a lot of user variables. I might have 15 or 20, but they are standard variables that we use in all our documents. Several of them are blank (unused) and again, the problem is not just with redefining varables. just changing a character tag on selected text can go to the wrong document.
I will try closing and reopening FM9 when I notice this happening and see if it makes a difference. I'll also try the "depoding" thing you suggested at some point.
I'm really not sure what you mean by memory leakage. I didn't know those little 1s and 0s could jump from one place to another all by themselves. It seems to me this is just a software (programming) bug that could be fixed pretty easily with a patch or update. Doesn't seem very complicated... I have had documents tiled like this in FM7 (and other programs like Word) for years and never had a problem. I suppose having all these little task bars open makes it a bit more complicated, but it should be doable without these kinds of errors. I'm not a programmer but I would think they could add a check to make sure that the document in focus receives the edit, or something like that. I'll see if I can figure out where to report a bug. At the very least I'm going to let my workmates know about this for awareness.
Thanks
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Just tried in FM10 - no issue there with the panes set horizontally. Report it to Adobe if you can reproduce it, but don't hold out too much hope of a patch in FM9.
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The "depodding" step is really an essential test, as the pods have been culprits in several crash-or-hang reports on the forums. The pods were based on some whiz technology that is apparently common in many other Adobe apps, but from the users point of view "tacking them into" FM -- which has a very, very old, non-Adobe-originated codebase and a UI that is unlike any other Adobe app -- was a recipe for trouble. A heroic effort by the engineering team, but ...
While my original posting described problems with very "intense" FM files (with huge # of variables or huge # of Tables), the pods have caused trouble with even small files, as shown in other forum postings. For example, I believe cross-references is one example where having the pods open causes hangs. The problem isn't necessarily that the document uses any podded features, just that the pods being "active" cause instability all by themselves. Just minimizing them isn't enough, though, FM is still updating them in the background, so they have to be removed from the workspace completely in order for them not to use memory and consume CPU cycles.
It really doesn't take very long to get a "NoPods" workspace set up, just be absolutely sure that you follow this bit:
>> Two steps are needed in order to get FM to be correctly de-podded for a given user:
1. put the nopods.fws and .cfws into the user’s Documents and Settings location (location varies according to Windows version)
2. have the user open FM, open a new blank FM document, select the "NoPods" workspace, close the new document, and use File > Exit to close FM.
If #2 isn’t done, then the symptom is that FM won’t open existing files (either double-clicking in Explorer or doing File Open in FM’s menu) with nopods active, even though nopods files exist in the correct Documents and Settings location and even though FM will, however, open a new blank document and have the nopods correctly activated.
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Memory leakage is when FM uses memory to do some process but doesn't give it all back when the process is finished, which eventually begins to clog the works, making either FM or Windows slow and then unstable.
I personally would suggest that you reboot when you start to see any instability, not just close / open FM.
I don't think you'd find anybody where who would disagree that this instability should have been corrected, but now that FM10 is out I very much doubt there will be fixes for FM9. And unfortunately there's no way to say for sure that FM10 might have fixes the particular issue you're having.
And absolutely yes, most of us would agree that FM7.2 was indeed the most stable of all, it was built like a tank. That said, though, without the major new features incorporated into FM8 and FM9 (e.g. Unicode), FM would have been totally sidelined by now.
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Gary,
Does everything work correctly when the documents are displayed as tabs, instead of separate windows? If so, why not use tabs instead? If the separate windows is really a bug, then it is probably a waste of time trying to find the sweet spot that makes it work.
Van
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Van, I really need to see two docs at a time. In my work I often am trying to make one document similar/same to another one. the tabbed approach just wouldn't work.
thanks
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Consider the possibility that this might not be an Adobe bug.
Rule out that anyone has messed with the XP window focus behavior by using TweakUI or similar tool.
Rule out that there is any malware installed, some of which reportedly affects focus (deliberately or not).
Rule out that any keylogging app is installed (such as corporate snoopware), which is catching all keystrokes, doing whatever it does with them, and then passing them on, ineptly, to the requesting process.