Frame Maker 9 Cross References Question

[Guest]

Howdy,

I got two documents the original and a translated version of it. The original has a bunch of working cross references and it's all fine and dandy. The translated one on the other has a bunch of broken cross-references, chapter headers, headers in general and what not. Almost all of the "code" broke when the translator did it.

Either way, that's easy enough to fix it, I can just copy the working code from the original and paste into the translated document and it will generaelly fix the error.

Now for the question - Since my translated document is a couple of pages longer than the original due to the translation can I still copy of the cross references from the first document over, and it will be all fine and dandy?

Basically I didn't write either docuements I'm just fixing formatting and other errors, and I'm not entirely 100% how Frame Maker does it cross references are they based on a page number/paragraph parameters, or something like under X subheading go here and that's how it links.

TL;DR How do Cross refernces work in FM9? And if I have a translated doc longer than my original, can those same Cross references work in both docs?

Thanks much for any help/insight.

Dean,

[Van Kurtz]

Dean,

In an unstructured FrameMaker document, one makes cross-references to paragraphs. When you insert a cross-reference, FrameMaker provides a dialog that lists the available paragraph tags. You select one, then the dialog lists the paragraphs that have that tag. You select the paragraph you want and the cross-reference format. When you click Insert, FrameMaker creates a marker at the target paragraph. The marker moves with the paragraph. So, if you add pages, the marker moves and updating the cross-references updates the references to the new page number.

IF the marker gets deleted, then the cross-references become unresolved, and you have to create them again.

So, a good translator should take care not to delete the markers. If the markers remain intact during the translation, then you just need to update them to get the correct page numbers.

Van

[Guest]

Van,

Thanks a lot. That takes a load off my mind. I think the translator used a machine translator for a lot of it, and it added spaces in the markers that just broke them. But as long as they still there, just..spaced out.(An example from what I noticed is that anything with a /,$,or- turns from a/b to a / b, $3 to $ 3, etc)

When I fix this formatting error the link should be re-created no problem then?

Dean

[Bob_Niland]

Almost all of the "code" broke when the translator did it.

They probably deleted the Cross-Ref Markers when over-typing the text. If Text Symbols were off during edit, that's pretty easy to do.

... and I'm not entirely 100% how Frame Maker does it cross references are  they based on a page number/paragraph parameters, or something like  under X subheading go here and that's how it links.

Unless you are Xref'ing a hand-created Marker, Frame auto-creates a Marker, of type "Cross-Ref" at the start of the target paragraph. It also auto creates an Mtext tag, which contains what appears to be a unique number string, the Paragraph Format name and the paragraph text (including any auto number). There is also a <Unique> tag with another unique number string.

When resolving references, my impression is that Frame first searches for the <Unique> number, and if not found, then for the Mtext string, and then possibly for the Mtext string without the leading number string.

If the translators do two things, I would expect the Xrefs to port:

1. Don't disturb Xref Markers. This can be tough, because it's sometimes hard to select text and not nab leading Markers, and because all Marker symbols look alike, and the Index markers do need to be messed with.
2. Don't translate text defined by Markers. That text will auto-translate from the source text at Update.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

1. Don't disturb Xref Markers. This can be tough, because it's sometimes hard to select text and not nab leading Markers, and because all Marker symbols look alike, and the Index markers do need to be messed with.

That's why I assign custom character formats in different colours to our different marker types (cross-ref, index, etc.). With Text Symbols on, they stand out quite nicely. ;>)

[Bob_Niland]

... assign custom character formats in different colours to our different marker types (cross-ref, index, etc.) ...

Do you apply the CF as you create each marker, or do you have a batch tool?

I presume that the auto-created and generated Xref markers remain black (unless tagged by a tool).

I could see this thread wandering off into a long discussion of how to optimize for translation ...

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

It's all a hand-job as we go in our case - it's mainly so us inexperienced FM users don't lose our way - no translation involved ;>)