FrameMaker 8 crashing constantly

[_Larry_Carey_]

Been running FM v8 (unstructured interface) for a couple of weeks now (Windows XP), and it crashes at least 2 times every day. I can produce PDFs fine (with the highly publicized "fix"), but I'm getting all kinds of mysterious memory-related error messages. It seems to happen on Paste operations fairly often, and it seems to happen most often when I'm working in graphic frames. Not seeing much in the forums about FM8 blowing up, and I can't make heads or tails out of the error logs that FM is generating. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. FM8 is now costing me time and trouble, and I'm not impressed.

[Art_Campbell]

What are the system specs?

Art

[Arnis_Gubins]

Can you supply the exact text of the memory-related error messages.

How much actual RAM and free disk space do you have? If you're pasting
graphics, then FM needs lots of space in its TEMP area in order to
create the working files (a jpg can expand drastically - FM needs to
work with the expanded graphic to display it).

Have checked through Adobe's FM general troubleshooting technote
(http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=331964) for
some possible scenarios?

[_Larry_Carey_]

I'm running FMv8 on Windows XP Pro (SP2), P4-2.80GHz with 1GB RAM, and I have over 40GB free disc space.

I'll have to capture the text frm the error message next time it happens. However, the header from the latest error log looks like this:

=== Header Begin ===
Internal Error: 8004, 6335581, 8468256, 0
FrameMaker 8.0.0 for Intel
Build: 8.0p236
Window System: MSWindows
Operating System: Windows NT 5.1 (major.minor.build: 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2)
Generated on: Friday, November 09, 2007 12:15:07 PM
To file: c:\program files\adobe\framemaker8\FrameLog_07.11.09_12.15.07.txt
=== Header End ===

I must ask - is there any reason that the Operating System is listed in the error log as "Windows NT 5.1", when I am in fact running XP? I just noticed it this minute, and it seems odd.

[_Chris_Nahr_]

On Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:30:28 -0800, Larry_Carey@adobeforums.com wrote:

>I must ask - is there any reason that the Operating System is listed in the error log as "Windows NT 5.1", when I am in fact running XP? I just noticed it this minute, and it seems odd.

Windows NT 5.1 is the internal identification of Windows XP. "XP" is
just the public marketing name. Likewise, Windows 2000 is actually NT
5.0 and Windows Vista is actually NT 6.0. This Wikipedia page lists
all NT version codes and their corresponding marketing names:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT
--
http://www.kynosarges.de

[Art_Campbell]

Larry,

I think your RAM, or lack of it may be the (or part of the) problem....
especially if you are running any other applications with FM.

For example, several of our systems that only had 1 or 2 G were crashing or locking up if we ran Photoshop or Illustrator at the same time as FM (7). Problems have gone away entirely and performance is much improved with 4G on board.

Art

[_Larry_Carey_]

OK, I'm still stuck here. FM v8 is crashing regularly, like several time a day now. This is messing up my work big time and I only wish I had never installed it. The message that I get is this: "Internal Error: 8004, 5271364, 5275681, 5278698. What any of that means, I have no clue. The suggestion that FM now requires 4GB of RAM in order to operate is hard for me to swallow (not to mention that our IT guys had a fit when I mentioned it), but thus far it's the only suggestion I've received (Thanks Art). Am I to believe that only I am having this much trouble with FM v8? This sucks, and I'm going to have to start thinking of other alternatives, so that I can get my work done.

[Art_Campbell]

Larry,
What has Adobe Support had to say?
And, just in passing, RAM is about $100 a Gig now, unless you have a really exotic configuration. About the cheapest upgrade you could do and it would eliminate that as a consideration....

Cheers,
Art

[jackgm1]

This may not help but I'll throw it out there anyway. I was running FM8 under Vista and had problems when I held down my mouse button too long. FM8 froze and I often lost data. I called Adobe and they asked if I had used AutoPlay when I loaded the app. Told them I had. They suggested uninstalling it and then reinstall through Windows Explorer by opening the CD's Framemaker8 folder, right-clicking on the Setup icon, and selecting Run as Administrator. Supposedly it fixes several problems. It didn't seem to fix mine but it may be worth a try. I did not have to reactivate the software when I did that. Also, did you contact Adobe and provide the error message numbers to them. They were very helpful when I called, as well they should be.

[_Chris_Nahr_]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:59:05 -0800, Jack_Michko@adobeforums.com wrote:

>This may not help but I'll throw it out there anyway. I was running FM8 under Vista and had problems when I held down my mouse button too long. FM8 froze and I often lost data.

Interesting. I did have several FM8 freezes under Vista as well but
couldn't identify a cause. Depending on how long Larry Carey keeps FM
running each day those hang-ups might well add up to twice per day.

Personally I didn't think it was a big deal, though -- Windows can
still identify and close the hung program, and I never had any data
corruption in my work files.

For the record, my system is 64-bit Vista with 4 GB and I'm running as
administrator. No offence to Art Campbell, but it seems very unlikely
that FM8 would require 4 GB to run stably; and on my system, it
doesn't. It's more likely that his Photoshop and Illustrator
processes were gobbling up memory and causing instability.

[_Larry_Carey_]

Thanks Jack - I'm waiting on a response from Adobe Tech Support now...I'm feeling like an "early-adopter" here, which I have always tried to avoid. If I get a response/solution, I'll post it here in case other poor souls are experiencing what I'm going through.

[AxialInfo]

Larry, you mentioned using graphics as being when the crashes seem to occur, and you also mentioned it happening on pasting.

Could you tell us what type of graphic files you're using? What is the source application that you're pasting from? How many graphics do you have in an average FM file?

Also have you experimented with using referenced graphics rather than copied (pasted) in? Several advantages for referenced graphics: 1) makes your FM files much, much smaller, 2) removes significant amounts of re-work when graphics are updated, 3) makes the files more portable, 4) uses much less memory -- some graphics formats expand the FM file size dramatically when pasted into FM, often several times the graphic's actual file size on disk.

I have to say I agree with the other folks that 1gig of RAM is more than likely your culprit; years ago I experienced instabilities in FM that were resolved once I got more RAM.

[Art_Campbell]

No offense taken, but you're kinda misquoting me. What I said was the same thing you said -- if other memory hogs (PS; Illustrator) are running at the same time as FM, then FM ends up without enough RAM, especially if it is also trying to process graphics.

Instability is a whole other issue, but either way the only practical way to compensate is by adding more RAM.

Art

[_Tim_Flynn_]

I have had the same problem (have had over 60 crashes in two weeks) running Frame 8 on Vista and XP systems - both new, stout systems.

The last four crashes happened within 1.5 hours and included the same INternal Error codes:

11/8 6:48 PM
=== Header Begin ===
Internal Error: 8004, 6952719, 4841390, 4841118
FrameMaker 8.0.0 for Intel
Build: 8.0p236
Window System: MSWindows
Operating System: Windows NT 5.1 (major.minor.build: 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2)
Generated on: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:48:23 PM
To file: c:\program files\adobe\framemaker8\FrameLog_07.11.08_18.48.23.txt
=== Header End ===

I was creating new templates and imported some formats from some I had created with FM 5.5/6.0. Adobe mentioned the templates may be corrupt (I've never had a problem before with them), so I created them again from scratch. Did not matter, crashes still occurring.

I noticed several things that may be a symptom or bug(?).

- The Color Definitions seem to expand from the several default definitions to maybe somewhere over 200 (Definitions named RGB XXXXXXXXX). And you cannot delete them.

- Table formats (specifically Double line for table header does not continue on the next page) inconsistently applied.

- Cannot print any Frame or PDF documents - both immediately crash. I can create PDFs from Frame using "Save As."

- Could not revert back to an editable document per instructions after creating a review only document.

I scoured the forums when the problems started occurring and did not find any related info until today - so I am not alone!! I copied the crash logs and sent them to Adobe to reopen the ticket last Friday(?) and have not heard from them.

And I thought I was finally rid of the exacerbation of crashes and corrupt docs replacing Word as our main tool!

[Arnis_Gubins]

Tim,

The RGB colour issue is probably coming from an indexed PNG (or other
indexed image file) used somewhere in your document. Convert it to an
RGB format to get rid of the recurring colour definitions (these
happen all of the time and shouldn't be the crash issue).

Did you install the Adobe PDF printer instance that came with FM8 or
one from the full Acrobat (Pro, 3D) products? What is your system
default printer set as?

Did any of the tables originate from a Word document somewhere along
the line?

Have you tried a MIF-wash on your document (save to MIF, open MIF and
resave as binary)?

[_Tim_Flynn_]

Hi Arnis,

Yes, I have saved numerous times as an .MIF; matter of fact for the past couple of days to continue my work I reverted back to using Frame 7.2 and only save the files as .MIFs. I have not had a crash since.

To further complicate matters, I finished creating Book templates in Frame 7.2. and built a book to test the generated lists; page numbering, etc. all functioned correctly. I saved the files (as .MIFs) and moved them onto another system which only has Frame 8 loaded. I opened the files saved them as Frame 8 FM and built a book using the template files. The Frnt Matter section page numbering (lc Roman numerals) changed to Arabic, was not sequential through the different sections regardless of my selections in Format, Document, Numbering in the individual book file/book window.

The table was not imported from Word but created in Frame from scratch. Since I have been having these ongoing problems I wanted to rule out anything external causing the issue(s). I currently have two graphics in the document (TM Block and Logo) both are .jpg. Although, I am switching to PNGs and was not aware of the issue-thanks.

So, I plan to return to using 7.2 and wait until these issues are resolved.

Thanks again for your response.

[MichaelKazlow]

In the past crashes could be due to driver errors, bad fonts, corrupt
directories, hardware problems, etc. Do you have any video acceleration
turned on? Have you tried to see if there is a newer (or older) video
drivers? Searched for bad fonts? Checked for directory errors? I know
this is a shot in the dark, but sometimes such a shot will hit its target.

Mike

[_Tim_Flynn_]

Hi Mike,

I have updated the drivers and performed the Windows OneLive Care analysis and recommended fixes. Video drivers/acceleration - have the latest with Acceleration set to Full.

Bad Fonts.... Upon opening some templates I have created with Frame 5.5 and 6.0, I did receive different Font Messages which as I remember were advisories stating a font did not exist and Frame 8. was going to substitue X for X. Although, I did not receive these messages when creating the new templates in FM 8. How does one check for bad Fonts?

Directory Errors - Have not had any issues with any directory issues. With the system maintenance checks I have performed I think (hope) any existing errors would have been found and corrected. How would one verify this?

Thanks for your input.

Tim

[MichaelKazlow]

Tim,

I seem to remember the OneLive can actually cause problems. Try turning
it off.

Mike

[_Sumeer_Goyal_]

Hi Larry,
I would like to help you with these crashes. Can you send me some of the crash logs at sgoyal@adobe.com.
Thanks,
--Sumeer

[_David_Zhang_]

This post seems to reflect my experiences with FrameMaker 8 on Vista.

I downloaded Frame 8 to create a Christmas & New Years newsletter. The graphics are in JPEG, PNG, PSD,and one GIF. I have 12 pictures on two pages. The computer is a Dell 1520 laptop, Vista, 128 MB video card, 2 GB RAM, 200 GB 7200 RPM drive. Have been using FrameMaker for 12 years.

I experienced four or more crashes a day. The FrameMaker application freezes and the window whittens. This seems to happen when I cut and paste. If I hold the mouse button down too long also might cause it.

I really can't figure out what the problems is. The Adobe InDesign version of my previous newsletter was essentially the same letter. InDesign on Vista does not crash; FrameMaker 8 on Vista crashes often.

[Software Maniac]

I am about to post a message with more details of FM 8 crashes (PDF and Book Update/Generate). Larry Carey mentioned something about a "I can produce PDFs fine (with the highly publicized "fix"). What fix is that?

Does anyone know if Save As PDF is related to issues with Book Update/Generate?

Ken Whitaker
Seattle, WA

[Software Maniac]

With Windows XP Professional SP2, FrameMaker 8 crashes with about 20 documents in a book whenever I either do an Update Book and Generate Lists or Save As PDF. I am not using a font manager but have installed Adobe CS3 including Adobe Acrobat 8 Professional. I assumed that Acrobat 8 is a superset of the version of Acrobat Distiller that comes with FrameMaker 8 and hopefully should work.

My configuration is:
FrameMaker 8.0.0 for Intel
Build: 8.0p266
Window System: MSWindows XP Professional SP2
Operating System: Windows NT 5.1 (major.minor.build: 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2)
System: Quad-Core, 4GB RAM, plenty of available disk storage, two 24 inch monitors
Adobe Acrobat: 8.1.1
Adobe Distiller: 8.1.0 (Note that I started this up and this is what was displayed in the log text window (Im not sure if this is a problem):

Acrobat Distiller 8.0
Started: Monday, December 24, 2007 at 15:29:07

Adobe PostScript software version: 3016.102
CID support library initialization completed.
Error in PDFX4 2007.joboptions:
/CheckCompliance out of range

The book uses OpenType/Type 1 fonts, cross-references, tables, and links to graphic files. Page size is 8 in. x 9.25 (so it is smaller than letter page size). I made sure that no other Adobe CS3 application was running and I did the following with this book:
1. Save [the book] As XML. Worked (all files were processed successfully to create the XML).
2. Print [the book] to an HP Laserjet as a PRN file. Worked.
3. Update Book and Generate Lists. Crash with Error number 8004 (Internal Error: 8004, 8443407, 4460228, 4414681).
4. Save As PDF with PDF Job Options of Standard (just to keep it simple). Crash with Error number 8004:

And then, in this case, when I click OK, another error window is automatically displayed.

Bam!

Im not sure if:
The book has too many chapters.
The book has content that FM 8 doesnt like.
There is a coordination issue with Acrobat Distiller (does FM 8 still use Distiller?).

So, I made a simplified book with four files (Title, TOC, 1 chapter, and index).
1. Saved As XML. Worked.
2. Update Book. Worked! (This is great, compared to the long book example that crashed)
3. Save As PDF. Crashed with error 8004.

I am packaging the files to send to Sameer of Adobe (looks like he volunteered in a prior posting) but I am having to keep both InDesign and FrameMaker documents updated cause I am not trusting FrameMaker 8 at the moment. If, as Larry Carey, says in a prior posting that there is a much publicized fix, Id sure like to know about it.

With Adobe CS3 installed I really dont want to remove / uninstall Acrobat 8 if I can help it. The Activate/De-activate feature can be a mess. I also dont quite know how to diagnose this issue because the number of possible causes of these errors are almost endless and I dont have the time. I still have FrameMaker 7.1 installed (is that the cause?) so I guess I could try that too.

Please, any suggestions???

Ken (Software Maniac)
Seattle, WA

[Software Maniac]

I have performed many test steps on both Adobe FM 8 and 7.1 using a very simple book template and found similar results all with the latest Adobe Acrobat Distiller 8 that comes with Adobe CS3 Design Suite. I've sent sample files to Sumeer at Adobe (tried to send them, IF we can get the attachment past Adobe's IT e-mail filters)!!!

Any other findings from you guys out there in FM-land?

Frustrated and confused,
Ken

[Art_Campbell]

Both FM 8 and Adobe Acrobat 8 have been patched since release... Are y'all up-to-date?

Art