Is it possible to group an MTOC by paragraph tag?

[Jordan_S.]

Working on a project in unstructured Framemaker.

The client has a TOC in each chapter that lists each paragraph, but then below that TOC is basically another TOC listing each table.  It's been done this way for years and the guy who set it up this way passed a while ago, unfortunately.

The problem being, however they were set up gives "Unresolved Text Inset" errors everytime you open the book.  There are nearly 100 chapters in the book and the Unresolved Text Inset generates pages of errors everytime you try to update the book.

The easiest thing to do is replace all the TOCs with MTOCs, but the manual owner says the separation of paragraph and tables needs to stay.  As far as I know, there is no way to sort/group a TOC by tag.

The other issue is that even if I can sort the MTOC, can you put a header above each group that says "Paragraphs" and "Tables"? 

If there is another way to do this easily, I'm all ears as well.

TIA.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

So is it doing a List of Tables (if that's such a thing - don't have FM open to check & have never done it) and then putting that in as a Text Inset in the chapter content?

[Jordan_S.]

I believe so.  But the original LOP/LOTs don't seem to exist yet it's still updating the content in the chapter.

[Winfried Reng]

Hi,

What happens, when you click in these TOCs/List of tables? When these are text insets, you get more info, when you double-click these text insets. You will see, where these are stored. When you open these text insets, they might give an error that e.g. graphics files cannot be found. And this might cause the error message during the book update.

When these lists get automatically updated, they are part of a book together with the chapter file. Do you see something (book in book) in your book?

If your colleague had set this up this way, that's what I would do as well:

Master book

In the master book books for all (chapters together with list of pararaphs and list of tables).

And no, I do not see an option to group an MTOC by paragraph or insert two MTOCs (one for paragraphs and one for tables).

Best regards, Winfried

[Jordan_S.]

Took a look at things.  They lead to folders/files that don't exist, i.e., ChapterNameLOP.fm.  It's like they were making a file, importing a text inset, and then deleting the source LOP file.  There is nothing in the book so I'm unsure of how they've been getting updated.

[Jeff_Coatsworth]

I wonder if that was the procedure in the past - generate the LOx files, update the text insets, then kill off the LOx files, update without refreshing the text insets?

[FrameMaker-dk]

I believe the easiet thing would be to create two standalone lists. A standard TOC and a List of Tables. This would be two separate documents. While it is possible to insert two lists into one document, I think the benefits of separating them weighs heavier.

[frameexpert]

This could be scripted if your client is open to a scripting solution.

[Barb Binder]

Hi Jordan:

There is nothing in the book so I'm unsure of how they've been getting updated.

I'm also curious how they are getting updated. Any chance you can share a file? If the content is confidential, you can share it via a direct message or even delete the body paragraphs and just leave the heads in place. Just so that we (or I) can determine how it was set up. I'm confused because if you are missing the text insets, the content couldn't update, but you said it is.

As per @Winfried Reng, we can't sort an MTOC—they are always chronological. Fm will intersperse the heads and the table titles if you call in both. We are also limited to one MTOC per file so the MTOC could list the heads or the table titles but not both as two separate lists.

Without scripting, I'd say the most efficient avenue is to add an MTOC for the heads, and the generate a standalone-TOC for the table tables and pull it in via a text inset.

Do be aware that a book update will update book-level TOCs/LOTs and embedded MTOCS but not the standalone TOCs, so you will have to manage those yourself, which is not ideal. This sounds like it may be a contract job, so I'd indicate you are going to bill for that extra time. That may be enough for the document owner to relax the presentation to take advantage of what FrameMaker does well and avoid adding manual steps. We humans make mistakes (imagine that!) and Fm doesn't, if the files are set up correctly. Just a thought.

~Barb

[Winfried Reng]

I would prefer to have this structure:

Master book

  Book for each content file with:

    Content file with TOC and LOT as text insets

    TOC excluded from the book output, but will be updated

    LOT excluded from the book output, but will be updated

Then you would not have to add new cross-references when you add a new heading or table. Everything is automatised. Takes probably half a day for 100 content files. The same time which you need to describe a script, discuss this with your boss, test a script later ...

Best regards, Winfried

[Barb Binder]

Wait. It's Friday. And it's been a long week.

Revised recommendation: create an MTOC for the heads, and then add a list of cross-references to the table titles. An x-ref can be formatted to mimic a TOC entry and they update with book updates. Now you have two automated lists that will update after edits. And you could do both with x-refs, it's just slightly quicker IMO, to use the MTOC.

On that note, that could be what is in place now. 

~Barb

[frameexpert]

I like Barb's recommendation; I have used this method in the past. When you add or remove tables, you will have to add or remove cross-references, but that's not much of an issue. Of course, adding the table cross-references and keeping them up to date could be scripted as well.