Newbie Question: How do you color a text frame border only?

[Guest]

Greetings,

God, the documentation on FM sucks. All the song and dance for complicated things, not a breath on any of the "should be simple" things.

Okay, I finally figured out (no thanks to Help) how to put a background color in a text "frame" (heaven help you if you think "box"), but as the background goes apparently so does the "border." How very, very odd. Rather defeats the point of a border doesn't it?

I want to assume I am oblivious to something plain and simple, but fear the answer is "can't do that in FM". Coming from InDesign, this is a very weird interface.

Have searched forum to no avail. Help, please.

regards,

stevenjs
_____________________________
"I am but an egg."
--Stranger in a Strange Land

[_Van_Kurtz_]

Steven,

Having worked with Frame for many years, I only recently figured it all out. If you select the frame and look at its object properties, you will notice a border color and border width settings, which do nothing (this always confused me) UNTIL you set the pen pattern to solid. You do the latter with the drawing tools palette. Select the text frame, open the drawing tools, and set the pen pattern to solid (black). This tool is about halfway down the left side of the tool palette, just below the fill pattern. Once you set the pen pattern to solid, you can change the border color and width either from the drawing tools palette or in the object properties dialog box.

I agree that is not as straightforward as InDesign, but this Frame's interface was built many, many years ago and has not changed.

Van

[Guest]

Van, many thanks for your thoughtful response.

Maybe I should rephrase the question?

I want to get a background color within the text frame, and a different color on the border. No can do, though I see what you mean about getting a border color on the box if you are NOT using a bg color within the box.

This is the weirdest thing if cannot be done.

stevenjs

[Arnis Gubins]

stevenjs,

To get your desired effect, you have to place the coloured text frame
inside of another graphic (or anchored frame) and then set the borders
on that one accordingly. FM's all about containers within containers
within containers...

[Guest]

Arnis, thanks. That's the only way, huh? curious.

within a "rectangle" for instance? what is "anchored" vs. not? (if this is a big topic, i'll see what I can find in the (#$%^$%$&*!!) Help.

stevenjs

[Arnis Gubins]

It depends upon what you're trying to achieve. For something like a
call-out, many people use a single cell table and specify separate
background shading and ruling styles. The table structure in FM is the
only item that allows separate fill and ruling styles to be combined
in one object.

Alternatively, you could place an anchored frame (if you need it to
flow along with your content; otherwise a graphic frame can be used to
anchor it to a specific page) with a desired border style and then
insert a text frame within that has your required fill. Use the
Properties window to position items precisely and keep in mind that
the offset measurements are specified relative to the centre of the
border thickness of the container, e.g. a 2-pt border line is 1pt
outside and 1pt inside the container.

You could also, within a table cell, insert an anchored frame that
contains a text frame that contains another table that contains...

Containers in containers in containers...

[Guest]

Arnis, you're great, thanks. I'm beginning to get it, though haven't tried it out yet.

Must read up on this "anchor" business, as you refer to an "anchored frame" as flowing along with content (anchored to what, paragraph?) then to a "graphic frame" which apparently is always "anchored" to a specific page? (not paragraph?)

Are tables anchorable, or do they have to be in an "anchored frame" to be positioned and stay in place?

Can slog through TFManual, but you may have shorthand to get this across quickly.

Anyway, viel Danken.

stevenjs

[Arnis Gubins]

stevenjs,

You've more or less got it.

Anchored frames are locked into a paragraph and flow along with the
text (they have some special options for starting at the top or bottom
of a page/columns though) while graphic frames remain exactly where
they are placed.

Tables are also anchored in a similar manner to anchored frames.

A useful tip is to create a special purpose paragraph tag that will
hold just the anchored frames and/or tables. This makes maintenance a
bit easier and provides a few more control tweaks for final
presentation.

[Guest]

Thanks for the quick start on anchoring, you're the best. ;-)

curious what properties would that special para tag holding anchored text frames or tables have, and how would that ease maintenance or provide more control.

unrelated, but burning question, for content destined for RoboHelp/HTML: use FM or not? would like to use FM to repurpose for PDF as well as RoboHelp, but being newbie green with FM (though not with RoboHelp) don't know whether to work directly in Robo or use FM. Any experience with that?

Thanks again for your help.

regards,

stevenjs

[Arnis Gubins]

Regarding the "special" properties, some uses are:

- for tables, set the space below to a negative value equal to the
same negative value (typically the line spacing) as the space above in
the table to make the table sit flush to any top of page condition

- the paragraph holding the anchor can be conditionalized to
optionally hide the entire anchored frame or table

- easy to set top of page or column conditions

- cross-reference target paragraphs

- create Lists of Paragraphs to complement Lists of References if you
import by copy

etc.

Regarding RoboHelp, in the TechComm Suite workflow, RH is really
purposed as just a publisher tool for source from FrameMaker. By using
appropriate templates and conditional text, you can more easily
repurpose your content for PDF/print and online help this way.

[Guest]

will have to review that last post more closely when I have time, but thanks!

right now, more appropriate to this topic, I cannot figure out how to inset text inside a text "frame." When I use a border on the frame, the text is bang up against that border. I see no way to inset from border on all sides.

Worse, nothing shows up in their [$##@^Q#!!??] Help.

[Arnis Gubins]

Text always starts at the top of the text frame. If you want extra
space at the top, you either insert an appropriate empty paragraph or
use the Frame Above/Below option for the first paratag to create a
"slug" (that you have to create on your Reference page as a named
Graphic frame) for the extra space that you need.

The side space is controlled by your right/left/first margin settings.

I would highly recommend that you get Sarah O'Keefe's "Publishing
Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 8" at
http://store.scriptorium.com/items/books/publishing-fundamentals-unstructured-framemaker-8-all-detail.htm

[Tigdave]

If you're trying to figure out how frame and table anchoring works, or even if you're just routinely working with these, make sure you turn on the View > Text Symbols menu option so you can actually see the anchors and end-of-paragraph marks. Once you do this you can get a pretty good feel of how anchoring works. If your text symbols are switched off then you're driving blindfolded and its not surprising that confusion reigns supreme.
This setting is stored separately with each document, so you might have to turn it on more than once.

[Guest]

Arnis,

you recommended Sarah O'Keefe's "Publishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 8" -- how good is this for a newbie? I mean, right now I am struggling to figure out how to make a footer. finally did, after a fashion which I'm sure is not the expected way, but does this book have a section like "how to make footers" ? obvious word-processing stuff? simple stuff?

This is a very strange app, and I frankly don't know why every little thing is a piece of esoterica unlike any other app. I would have thought it would be sensible like InDesign or Quark. it is unlike anything.

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

> how to make a footer.

You make a footer in Frame the same way you make one in Quark or
Indesign: put it on a master page and apply the master page. Pretty
straightforward.

> This is a very strange app, and I frankly don't know why every little
> thing is a piece of esoterica unlike any other app. I would have
> thought it would be sensible like InDesign or Quark. it is unlike
> anything.

Frame's interface is very old. When I learned it circa 1993 it was
"unlike anything". But that was a good thing. :^)

Keep in mind this is a user-to-user forum. For the most part, your
complaints are being read by ordinary users who have no control over
what Adobe does with Framemaker.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[Guest]

yea, but the master page makes some kind of blue box when editing text, frames won't move as expected, can't get an auto number to appear in it, etc. got it in by deleting master page, not using footer box, positioning frame containing footer text and graphic and another with whatever FM calls autonum, and moved it around until it worked in body pages.

i'm just venting, don't expect Adobe to chanage anything for newbie's hassles. people who've got used to this weird app must be quite a club.

know anything about the book mentioned?

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

> master page makes some kind of blue box when editing
> text, frames won't move as expected, can't get an auto number to
> appear in it

I could probably help more if you came up with some details. Frames are
selected with CTRL-click. They can then be moved by dragging or going to
Graphics > Object Properties and setting numbers in the Top and Left
fields. Deselect the frame and click back inside it to get a flashing
text cursor, go to Special > Variable > Current Page #. You got me with
the blue box. I have no idea what that is.

Moving frames and inserting auto page numbers work pretty much the same
way in Quark and Indesign.

> i'm just venting,

Yes, that's my point. You'll get more help if you vent somewhere else.

> know anything about the book mentioned?

No.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com