Open Bullet

[slang75]

Hey all,

Another post. How do I get the character format for an open bullet? I have the regular bullet, but I need the open bullet, like this o

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

You're only going to get an open bullet if you choose a typeface that
contains an open bullet. Both Universal News with Commercial Pi and
European Pi 3 have a variety of different sizes of open and closed
bullets available in ANSI. You can also get at least one open bullet
from the basic Microsoft fonts: Arial, Courier New, and Times New Roman,
but these characters are not ANSI, so anything before Frame 8 will not
be able to see them.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[Guest]

Slang:

In general:

<ol>

<li>Create a named character style that species a font that contains the sort of bullet you want. Make a note of the character number because you'll probably need it later.</li>

<li>Use FrameMaker's Paragraph Designer, Numbering tab, to specify that named character style. FrameMaker uses that style for the numbering / bulleting.</li>

<li>You'll probably find that the default character for the bullet -- "\b" -- doesn't work. So you'll need to specify the character number as an "x\nnn" code.</li>

</ol>

Cheers & hope this helps,
Riley

P.S. I don't know why HTML tags stopped working on the Forum, but things like cite and so on began being interpreted as "code." rather than producing formatting. Anybody have any ideas...?

[Arnis Gubins]

Riley,

There was some malicious spam being posted that used some HTML
chicanery to automatically redirect users to certain sites, so a
number of HTML features had to be disabled by Forum Operations.

[slang75]

Still can't get this to work....can anyone offer any help?

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

What have you done so far, and in what way does it not work?

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[_Lisa_Rodwell_]

Hi all - I'm having the same problem. The problem for me is figuring out what, exactly, to type in the Paragraph Designer to get it to work. I found this page that tells you the specs on the character:<br />http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/25cb/index.htm<br /><br />I've also got this PDF from Adobe that has instructions for typing inside this box:<br />http://www.adobe.com/devnet/framemaker/pdfs/Character_Sets.pdf<br /><br />I've tried all types of combinations of the sequences listed but nothing works. Here is what I'm going for:<br /><br /><open_bullet_char_here>\t\t\t<br /><br />I'm sure it's a little thing I'm missing. I've successfully gotten other characters to show up, but all of those were numeric only, with no alphabetic characters in them, like this one. Any takers? Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Lisa

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

Lisa, please go back and read my first post in this thread. The problem
is not entering the character, but making sure the character *exists*.
Most typefaces don't have an open bullet, so you have to both enter the
bullet in the dialogue and specify a typeface (via a character style) in
which an open bullet *does exist*.

Actually entering the open bullet depends on what character the open
bullet is represented by in the typeface you choose. For instance, if
you choose Universal News & Commercial Pi, the smallest of the three
available open bullets is a capital C. In European Pi 3, the smallest of
four available open bullets is a lower case i. If you're using Frame 8,
you should be able to use the open bullet available in Times New Roman
(or any of the other basic Windows fonts) at U+25E6. I would first try
copying from Windows Character Map and pasting into the dialog, but I
don't have Frame 8 yet, so I don't know if this works.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[_Lisa_Rodwell_]

Thanks for the fast reply, Kenneth.

Yes, I realize it is based on the font. I'm using plain old Arial. The first link I posted is all the info on that symbol in Arial. I've tried all of those sequences of characters in the FM field (yes, using the Numeric keypad). I've even tried copying/pasting from other applications including the Windows Character Map. I'm also using FM 7 BTW. I've Googled this for months and this is one of the few things out there on this subject, so I'm wondering if anyone has ever gotten any kind of open bullet to work in FM. I'm willing to use a different font face, I just want some kind of open bullet - something to designate that this is a "level 2" bullet besides "*" or "-". As a work-around for our documentation, I've been using a lowercase letter "o" in Courier font. It *almost* looks like the open bullet in Arial.

PS When I try to paste from the Character Map, I just get a literal "?". When I hold the Alt key and type "9675" on the num keypad, I get a literal "-".

PPS, FWIW, I have a character format called "bull2" set to Arial 10pt. In the Numbering tab of the Paragraph Designer, for paragraph tag "Bullet2", I have the "bull2" char format selected.

PPS2: I just realized you said this: " available in Times New Roman
(or any of the other basic Windows fonts) at U+25E6" -- I can use TNR font... how would you go about typing this character in the field in FM? I can use that. :)

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

> I'm also using FM 7


FM7 is not Unicode aware. The open bullet in Arial is in the Unicode
range of the font, so FM7 can't see it. You must use a font that has the
open bullet available in the ANSI range (or upgrade to FM8). I suggested
Universals News & Comm Pi and European Pi, but you might have a look at
whatever symbol and dingbat fonts you have on your system. Some of the
Wingdings fonts have some open circles that might work. MT Extra looks
like it has an open bullet.

You may also be able to fake it by using a lower case o in a font that
has a round o. The lower case o in, for example, Futura, looks to me
(without my glasses) like a perfect circle.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[_Lisa_Rodwell_]

Ahhh not Unicode aware - I get it now! (Sometimes I have to be smacked over the head) Ok - looks like my work-around is probably as good a solution as any then (the fake-it method). When I get time I might try some of those others you suggested. Thanks for staying with me and for the tips!