Save as PDF

[Marco van den Biggelaar]

Hi All,

I'm working with Framemaker 8.0p277 on a Windows XP machine.

Often I read answers that one should not use the Save as PDF option. Instead one should print to a Postscript file and distill that file.
But why is the first option is less better then the second? Can someone please explain this for my understanding.

regards
Marco

[Mike Wickham]

Though Adobe supposedly fixed the Save as PDF function in FrameMaker 7.0-- it was badly broken before that-- a lot of people still have problems with it. On the frameusers.com listserv, there are often problems reported that are fixed merely by printing to the AdobePDF printer, instead of using Save as PDF.

I've never heard anyone say why Save as PDF is problematic, but Adobe does warn against having more than one instance of any combination of Acrobat, Adobe Reader, or the Distiller that comes with FrameMaker on any one computer. Installing/uninstalling any one of those can blow out bits of the other. And that may be the reason Save as PDF is problematic for some.

You may want to consider installing the free SetPrint plugin. It sets Adobe PDF as the default printer for FrameMaker, without changing the default printer elsewhere in Windows. This makes it very easy to create PDFs, simply by choosing Print. It has the added advantage of preventing unexpected reflow in documents caused by editing them with one printer set as the default, but printing to a different printer. You can find it here:

Mike Wickham

[Marco van den Biggelaar]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your reply.
I assume it depends on the settings on the system then.

I normally create PDF using the ps and distiller way. But I am investigating the Save as PDF way. When I compare both ways, they look simular (even in detail when creating a report in Pitstop). The only thing that is different is that the PDF versions are different. We have the setting in the joboption that it should be PDF version 1.4. So our PDF's have this setting, but not for the Save as PDF way. In that case we get a 1.6 version (though we use the same joboptions).
Do you maybe have an explanation for this?

Thanks in advance!
Marco

[Dov Isaacs]

(1) Beginning with FrameMaker 7.0, the "save as PDF" feature in FrameMaker was at least viable compared to failed efforts prior to 7.0.

(2) To be very clear, what the "save as PDF" feature does is to internally create PostScript via the AdobePDF PostScript PostScript printer driver instance, funnels same to the Distiller with the user-specified job options, deletes the PostScript file, and then optionally calls Acrobat or Reader to display the resultant PDF. FrameMaker does NOT natively generate PDF (unlike InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop).

(3) The "save as PDF" feature in recent versions of FrameMaker is much more stable than in 7.0. Added stability is provided for "save as PDF" by applying the Microsoft Windows OS fix that resolves the problem of "missing text."

(4) There is no logical difference between printing to the AdobePDF PostScript printer driver instance and manually creating PostScript and saving to FILE: and then distilling same. The results and stability are the same. As such, advice to manually create PostScript and distill as oppose to printing directly to the AdobePDF PostScript printer driver instance is pure poppycock / bubbameiser / urban legend!

- Dov

[Software Maniac]

Just upgraded to FM 9 and it appears that the Save As PDF finally works! However, for those of you that jumped onto the FM 9 bandwagon, I have seen some strange behavior that sometimes FM doesn't do anything if you try more than one Save As PDF from a document.

I'm not sure if it was because the generated PDF already existed or some other issue. I'll keep on trying to figure out but I'd be careful if you think that a PDF was actually generated (when in reality it may not have been)!

On Vindows Vista Ultimate SP1 and have Acrobat Pro 9 (that I got with CS4).

[Marco van den Biggelaar]

Hi Dov,

Thank you for the clear overview.
Like I pointed out in my second message, I didn't find any differences. Except for the PDF version: 1.6 instead of 1.4.
Do you have any clue?

regards
Marco

[Dov Isaacs]

The PDF version comes solely from the joboptions chosen.

- Dov

[Guest]

I have been using FM (Version 8.0p277 on Vista) for less than a year and have ignored suggestions to set my default printer to Adobe PDF because "Save as PDF" has worked well until recently. I created a book of only about 80 pages (with maybe 1 screenshot per page) by using the "Save as PDF" approach, and it took about 35 minutes. I'm not very technical, but a co-worker suggested that because FM allows multiple undos, alot of memory gets used in storing that history and that could create speed issues in creating PDFs. A few days later, I created a PDF of the same book. I had made fewer changes to the FM document and it took less than 3 minutes to distill. Any thoughts on this theory?

[hcwilter]

Hi!

When using the Save as PDF command in FM9, it doesent print registration marks, and inserted pdf files, comes out in low resolution. Why?
I'm using the trial version.

[Arnis_Gubins]

Hans,

This already has been reported as a bug (and it's only for the CMYK
version - RGB still works as previously). Hopefully a patch will
forthcoming very soon.

Arnis Gubins
Forum host

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

Using FM8.0p277 Vista.
I really hate to beat up on a topic. I posted a message that got no reply earlier & I'm not sure if that's because no one noticed the post or perhaps no one knows the reason...

I like the feature "Save As PDF" for the most part. I have a document that is about 80 pages and yesterday I created a PDF of it. I hadn't done so in a while and it took a whopping 45 minutes. In reviewing it, everything seemed to be there (no missing graphics or wierd text or anything). But as I was reviewing the PDF, I realized I needed to change a couple of figure titles. I did that this morning and updated my FM doc. (the TOC, LOF, etc); then regenerated a PDF of the exact same document using "Save As PDF" and it took only 3 minutes. (This is when I like "Save As PDF".)

A colleague of mine suggested that software like FM that allows multiple undos saves a lot in history (that may not even be visible in Edit>History anymore). He suggested that perhaps this affects the distilling process. Anyone?

I'm assuming "Save As PDF" is designed with the intent to simplify the process. I know it's an ongoing issue; just curious if this is an accurate assessment of why it behaves so differently from one time to the next.

Thanks,
Janice

[Arnis_Gubins]

Janice,

It's tied up with the inner working of the "Adobe PDF Port" that the
AdobePDF printer instance is connected to by default. This process is
works in the background (possibly a low-priority on some systems),
generates a temporary postscript file, has to wake up Distiller and
get it to process the temp ps file using the specified joboptions, and
then does some housekeeping afterwards.

I too have found that this process can be up to 100x slower than
simply printing to the file when the AdobePDF printer instance is
reconnected to the FILE: port.

Functionally, using watched folders in Distiller will give you the
same result quicker, in my opinion, than the Save AS PDF functionality
(which has always been a kludge to placate users who want one-click
results).

[Guest]

Arnis,

I'm not sure what you mean by "using watched folders in Distiller". If that means setting my default printer to Adobe PDF as users have suggested, I tried that yesterday after the lengthy PDF creation to see if it would produce a PDF quicker.

This may sound stupid, but it appeared to save the document with a ps extension in my Documents folder and it didn't open automatically. When I do a search for the file, I cannot locate it (have searched entire computer including hidden folders). So I obviously have something set incorrectly and haven't seen how this process helps. I know this is basic, but when I set my default printer to Adobe PDF, how do I then distill the file (particularly when I can't find it!). That is, what should other settings be to complete the distill process?

Janice

[_Van_Kurtz_]

Janice,

When you print to the Adobe PDF printer, the end result is the PDF file. You do not have to distill anything. A temporary PS file is created, Distiller is opened to distill the PS file, then closed when finished deleting the PS file in the process. This is the method I use to create PDFs.

If you actually want to use Distiller directly, then when you print to the Adobe PDF printer, you need to select Save to File. Then the printer creates the PS file but does NOT distill it; you can then distill it using Distiller. It all depends upon whether you want to set your Distiller options in the Adobe PDF printer dialog or in Distiller. I have yet to find a reason to use Distiller directly. I just print to Adobe PDF printer without saving the file to disk; the end result is the PDF without having to use Distiller directly.

You asked about watched folders. Distiller has the feature of being able to look in watched folders for PS files. To do this, you create an empty folder, say on your desktop. Then open Distiller and set your job options. In Distiller, there is a command to select one or more watched folders. Then you leave Distiller running.

Go back to the application from which you need to create a PDF, then print to the Adobe PDF printer and SAVE to file, but save the file in the IN folder inside the watched folder. When the app has completed creating the PS file, Distiller opens it automatically and distills it, placing the PDF file in the OUT folder inside the watched folder. While Distiller is creating the PDF, you can do more work in your application. I generally do not use this feature because I have found that the vast majority of time spent in creating a PDF is consumed by the application making the PS file, whether temporary or not. The actual distillation process is usually very fast.

Van

[Art_Campbell]

Before we go too far down this road... can someone confirm a point?

I don't have it installed anywhere so I can't check, but I'm not remembering that the limited free Distiller installed by the FM installation has the Watched Folder capability. I'm thinking that it's only available in the full Acrobat version...

Art

[Dov Isaacs]

If you don't want to use the save as PDF feature, you might as well print to the Adobe PDF PostScript printer driver instance as opposed to hacking around with watched folders and other similar mishagoss. There is absolutely NOTHING that manually distilling PostScript or using watched folders adds to your performance or functionality.

- Dov

[Arnis_Gubins]

Dov,

I have to respectfully disagree on the performance aspect. I've
documented and submitted examples of substantial performance
differences in printing to the printer instance connected to the FILE
port and distilling vs. printing to the printer instance connected to
the Adobe PDF Port vs. using Save As PDF. I've seen this happen
through various versions of the products (FM and Acrobat) on different
machines, so it's not just a simple user/configuration issue. In an
automated workflow where (tens of) thousands of pages are being
produced on a regular basis, this is a real PITA.

There's something in the Adobe PDF Port that doesn't always play nice
and really slows things down to a crawl when creating the .(t)ps file.
I agree that logically, there shouldn't be a difference, but
factually, there is.

Is there another explanation that you can shed some light on for the
differences in processing times that Janice has seen?

As an aside, for print production from FM, the SaveAsPDF route
triggers the "Generate Acrobat Data" option and embeds all sorts of
unnecessary crap that bloats both the postscript and resulting PDFs
which also adds a load to the processing. The latest incarnation in
FM9 for CMYK sounded good in theory, but so far is still very rough
around the edges and not quite ready for prime-time.

Any way you slice it, SaveAsPDF from FM is still a kludge until FM
gets the ability to natively generate the PDFs like other Adobe apps.

[Guest]

Hi all,

Please let me reiterate, I really like the idea of, and would rather use, the "Save As PDF" feature. I would really love the feature if it would create a PDF for a <100 page document in 3 minutes instead of sometimes taking almost an hour for basically the same document. This method hasn't caused problems in terms of messing up the content of my document. It just seems inconsistent in how long it takes to produce a PDF of the same document after a few changes.

I'm (reluctantly) willing to set my default printer to Adobe PDF if, as many who have posted before say, it produces PDFs more consistently and quickly. When I did set my printer to Adobe PDF yesterday, I must have left the setting Save to File, because it did create a ps file that I had to manually set to distill. It didn't automatically create and open the PDF file. This still took time (just under 10 minutes).

I'm getting the impression that I could either change the settings and use the Adobe PDF printer or accept the fact that producing a PDF using the Save As method is not always quick.

Thanks for all the input. I'm learning...
Janice

[Arnis_Gubins]

Janice,

FYI, there's a utility called SetPrint from Sundorne
(http://www.sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm) that will
automatically set the AdobePDF printer instance as your default in FM
and reset it to whatever you had for your other applications.

[Guest]

Arnis,

This utility looks interesting. I just attempted to download it. It says it's been tested for FrameMaker 6.0 and 7.0. I'm using 8.0 and assumed it would work. Figured I could undo the steps if it didn't. However, it automatically tries to open the file in Notepad and most of the document seems to be garbage characters. It doesn't give an option to open the file in another text editor or program. Any ideas?

Janice

[Software Maniac]

Wow - this thread has gotten wild...

Say, I have seen many issues with PDF with pre-FM 9. And now with FM 9, Save As PDF:

1. Works (well, kind of)
2. It may be slow, but I don't really care -- I want #1 (Works) to work!

I'm on Vista, just upgraded to FM 9 and in trying Save As PDF, I see:
1. Color rendering doesn't always work (just spot color, no CMYK)
2. Fonts get really messed up (some fonts do anyway)
3. It uses the similar Acrobat options (including presets!)

How do I know something is really amiss? Well, I created the exact same document (same layout, fonts, styles, ...) using InDesign and Save As PDF works flawlessly.

So, in trying the Print to PDF, I need a generic Postscript Printer. Does anyone know of one? The one on the Adobe site can't install on Vista SP1 (I had it somehow working on Vista Sp0 but not sure how).

Any additional threads you all can recommend?

[Arnis_Gubins]

You need to print to the "Adobe PDF" printer instance, not some
generic postscript printer (this is no such beast anyway). Postscript
is device dependent and that printer instance is the one specifically
developed for creating postscript suitable for PDF conversion by
Distiller.

The Save As PDF process in InDesign writes directly to PDF. The
process in FM, on the other hand, silently prints to a temporary
postscript file using the Adobe PDF printer instance, opens Distiller
and creates a PDF using the joboptions specified in the Save As PDF
dialogue window. You can't compare the two processes.

What specific fonts get messed up? Are these in locations that
Distiller knows about? Do you have any font substitutions specified in
the AdobePDF configuration (Printers > Properties > Device Settings >
Font Substitution table)? Do the printing preferences for the AdobePDF
printer instance have the "Rely on system fonts" option checked? (It shouldn't be.)

For CMYK colour rendering, did you uncheck the "Convert CMYK colours
to RGB" option? Which joboptions did you select? The CMYK SaveAsPDF
works quite well except for imported PDFs and WMF/EMF files. All FM
defined colours are properly maintained. The best graphic format to
safely pass through CMYK colours is still EPS in FM9.

[AxialInfo]

Janice, the .dll that you download does work with FM8, no problem.

There are instructions on the page telling where to put the .dll file:

http://www.sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm

No editing or unzipping or anything else of the .dll is needed.

The .ini file can be edited in Notepad as per the instructions.

[AxialInfo]

Maniac, do not, under the pain of severe head-banging angst, install anything like a "generic Postscript Printer". Yes, there is one that can be obtained on the Adobe website downloads area, but it is not, repeat NOT, usable in any functional way, it's ancient, antique, brain-dead, not even a true PS printer if I recall Dov Isaac's many postings about it over the years.

[Art_Campbell]

Why do you think you need one?

To amplify what Shelia's saying.... The installed Acrobat software IS the printer to use. You don't need anything else and beyond that, don't use anything but that printer instance.