Vector to Raster Conversion

[_Dono_Doya_]

I posted this in the Acrobat forum a few weeks ago and received no feedback. I'm hoping that someone in this forum has come across these situations and can offer some advice

I produce technical manuals using FrameMaker 7.2. The vector images are primarily created with Illustrator CS2. I would like to be able to leave my native files in tact and rasterize the vector images when I distill the FrameMaker documents.

Also,

I am looking for a solution to batch rasterize vector images inside of a large library of multi-page pdf documents while leaving text and links untouched.

Can anyone suggest solutions for these two situations please?

Thanks,

Mark

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

You can batch rasterize vector images using Photoshop (before you import
them into Frame), but Acrobat does a pretty good job of not destroying
vectors. Why do you want to do this?

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[Arnis Gubins]

Mark,

Unfortunately, AFAIK, there isn't a direct step to rasterize vectors
to images when going via ps output to distiller.

If you have the vector drawings saved as EPS from Illustrator and they
are stored in a separate folder, you might be able to batch script
Photoshop to rasterize these and resave as EPS in another folder. Then
just have FM look in the new location to relink all of the graphics
for creating the PDFs.

[_Dono_Doya_]

Kenneth & Arnis,

These were originally engineering drawings and I would like to rasterize them to prevent the end user from opening the vector drawings and creating dxf or dwg files that can be brought back into CAD or modeling programs.

Our current process includes using Illustrator to manipulate the original engineering drawings then adding callouts and other markups using Cad Tools. The Illustrator documents are saved in .ai format then brought into FrameMaker. We create secured pdf books out of FrameMaker but I know it doesn't take much to crack the security if one is resourceful. I was hoping to find a solution that would keep us from changing our workflow since we have many years worth of documents in our archive.

The other end of this problem would address a large library of the pdf books that are located in an online portal our customers can access. The pdf books that are currently there contain primarily vector images but I would like to rasterize the images while leaving the text searcheable and without turning it into a full-time job for someone.

Mark

[Arnis Gubins]

Mark,

Importing the Illustrator .ai files into FM is really a no-no since FM
doesn't actually support the .ai format. This is an accidental
conversion in that the .ai format is a pseudo-pdf. FM's internal PDF
filter is recognizing that component and rendering it. You may
actually be losing content without knowing it. If you are editing in
Illustrator, then you can save in image format, but this would require
re-importing into FM. You could automate this using FrameScript.

As far as changing things in existing PDFs, you may be better off
asking in the Acrobat Forums. However, I don't think this will be an
easy one, as a vector is a vector, and any line on a page (a footnote
separator, table rules, etc.) would be a candidate for a conversion.
You'll need an operator to mark the area of the drawing that needs to
be rasterized.

You may want to consider other security measures to lock down the PDF
to prevent copying the contents and/or build in a print function via
the scripting that forces the hardcopy to print as an image (see
Advanced functions in the Acrobat print dialogue). The benefit to this
would be that your users get to see the highest resolution possible
(the scalable vector drawing) and there is minimal impact on your
workflow.

[_Kenneth_Benson_]

> rasterize them to prevent the end user from opening the vector drawings and creating dxf or dwg files

Have you ever tried opening one of your own vector drawings after it's
been published as part of a PDF? What goes in is not the same as what
comes out.

I do a lot of this (opening PDFs to make editable AI files). It's a lot
of work to get something usable. And I'm just trying to get something
press quality. I'm not trying to turn it into a fully manipulable CAD
drawing. Rasterizing would make it harder but not impossible.

No matter what you do, if you publish, there's a way to pirate your
material. You can waste lots of time worrying about it, but you can't
actually do anything about it.

--
Kenneth Benson
Pegasus Type, Inc.
www.pegtype.com

[Art Campbell]

Dono,

I think the process that you're worrying about, of someone being able to extract info from a graphic in a PDF and then construct a CAD file from that is a theoretical possiblity. But I don't think that it has any relation at all to the source file's vector or raster format.

The PDF is built on PostScript, and if someone extracts the graphics, either with Acrobat or a utility program, there isn't a lot you can do to prevent it, nor from the possibility that they'd enhance the graphic after extraction. As you noted, the password security of the PDF can be circomvented. Also as you noted, your use of Illustrator is removing all the hidden CAD layers, so there isn't anything left but the outer shell of the drawing.

But if someone wanted to pirate your drawings, they could do it just as easily if they scanned a printed page and started from that graphic. If you're going to put your graphics out there at all, you're taking the chance of misuse.

Art

[_Dono_Doya_]

Arnis,

FrameMaker does provide ai support (see 'Design Tools'):

http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/comparison.html

The above document is for FrameMaker8 but I assure you the same support is there in version 7. FrameMaker - Illustrator (.ai) - Photoshop (.psd) is actually a very efficient workflow except when it comes to the security issues I am trying to tackle.
--------------------------
Art,

You see, I'm not concerned with someone pirating my published documents - it's more of an issue of not providing them with plans to manufacture my product.
--------------------------
Kenneth,

Yes, I have tried it. Maybe it's because the art originated from a CAD program but it worked frighteningly perfect. I am aware that you can't completely prevent someone who is motivated enough from replicating your work. I am merely interested in making it a bit more of a challenge. If someone can open my vector drawings and effortlessly reproduce the product we make from those files saving hundreds of thousands of dollars (possibly even millions) I feel it is wise for me to detour them as much as possible without expending too much energy anyhow.

[Arnis Gubins]

Mark,<br /><br />Ahh, the sweet siren's song of the marketing prose written by long<br />gone marketeers... ;-)<br /><br />As found in other threads and quoting Dov Isaacs from Adobe:<br /><br />>Subject: RE: Printing Error with FM<br />>Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 09:25:38 -0700<br />>From: Dov Isaacs <isaacs@adobe.com><br />>To: Michael M?ller-Hillebrand <mmh@cap-studio.de>, FrameUsers List<br />> <framers@lists.frameusers.com><br />><br />><br />>Let's try this again. FrameMaker does NOT, repeat does NOT, repeat<br />>one more time does NOT support the native Adobe Illustrator format;<br />>doesn't now, never did! It does support EPS and PDF saved from all<br />>versions of Adobe Illustrator including PDF saved as part of a .AI<br />>file!<br />><br />><br />> - Dov

[_Dono_Doya_]

Arnis,

Well, I would never attempt to take on Dov but maybe someone should put him together with whoever published the afore mentioned document and close the door for a while. If FrameMaker does NOT, repeat does NOT support the native Adobe Illustrator format doesn't it seem kind of strange that dbl clicking an .ai document placed in FrameMaker will launch Illustrator opening that document.

We have been working with this workflow for many years and have never seen a problem and our documents go through multiple reviews prior to being published.

Mark

[Art Campbell]

Uh, Arnis (and Dov),
The FM 8 FAQ, currently online at http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/faq.html includes this item....

"What new features were introduced in FrameMaker 7.1?
FrameMaker 7.1 introduced the following new and enhanced features: ...,
native Adobe Photoshop® and Illustrator® files, and PDF graphics)."

I've been using AI (and PhotoShop) import from CS, CS2 and now CS3 versions into FM 7.1, 7.2 and 8...

Art

[Arnis Gubins]

Guys,

I'm not saying that you can't actually import something in those
formats, but if you look closely what the import filters are really
doing, then you may not be importing everything that you think you
are. Just like with OLE, one of these days it will bite.

With Photoshop only a limited subset of PSD features are enabled as
the import filter converts all colour spaces to RGB only using its own
algorithm, has no transparency & flattens all layers, and stores it in
the uncompressed FrameImage format.

Regarding the AI file format, check out Mordy Golding's blog entry at
http://rwillustrator.blogspot.com/2006/11/whats-in-file.html and the
Illustrator support page at prepressure.com (with a reference to
Mordy's blog):
http://www.prepressure.com/pdf/application-notes/illustrator

You can use a penny in fusebox or saran-wrap in ingenious ways, but
would you rely on it knowing what the consequences could be? ;-)

[_Dono_Doya_]

Thanks for your feedback Arnis, I do appreciate your concern.

I was in prepress for many years and frequented the forums on printplanet regularly so I respect Mordy Golding's opinion immensely. After reading the articles at both of the links you provided and with nearly 3 years experience working with this workflow I still didn't find anything to lead me to disbelieve Adobe's claim to provide native ai and psd support in FrameMaker.

I understand what you are saying about not all features are enabled using these formats but in our case it simply has not been an issue. At the very least though it will cause me to keep a closer watch on our output. Thanks again for your feedback.

PS - cute metaphors but also keep in mind that the Wright brothers would have never gotten off the ground if they listened to everything they were told that they couldn't do.

[Arnis Gubins]

Mark,

I never really said that you couldn't - just educating users about the
myths and potential pitfalls in the workflow. ;-)

[Harald E Brandt]

When the FM file (with AI/PDF graphics files imported by reference) finally is saved as PDF, isn't it distiller that gets to interpret the graphics content and which does the actual rendering and any colour conversions, just as with eps?

What FM shows on the screen as a "preview" of a placed pdf or ai file (imported by reference), is clearly not what gets into the final pdf! The final pdf has much higher quality!

[Arnis Gubins]

Harald,

It has nothing to do with what shows on the screen. FM's PDF import
filter converts a PDF to an EPS format internally (and generates the
preview). In the case of an imported AI file, it converts the PDF
component that it recognizes (which may not be a complete
representation of all of the actual drawing constructs). On output, FM
passes this internal EPS through into the print stream (i.e. the
postscript file) that Distiller (regardless of the method - Save As
PDF or printing to) then (re-)interprets to create the PDF (again).

So there are a bunch of conversions and assumptions being made in this
workflow (direct import of AI files) that are beyond your control. If
the results are acceptable, then continue to run with it. If not, then
you now know where to make changes in the workflkow.

[Harald E Brandt]

Aha, thanks for the clarification of how FM generates both an eps and a preview on the fly, and that it is this on-the-fly generated eps that goes to the distiller!

In practice though, I always use eps, and I had actually forgotten that one nowadays can use ai and pdf directly. So, I just recently made a number of tests and comparisons. These led me to continue with eps, at least for most cases. My reasons are:
1. FM is very slow to scroll when zoomed-in close to the placed ai-graphics.
2. A placed ai or pdf has the dimensions of the artboard, whereas an eps always gets "shrink-wrapped" to the size of the actual content, which makes it easier and more convenient when aligning the graphics towards borders etc.
3. Editing the eps is as easy as editing an ai-file, so there isn't much difference.

The disadvantage with eps is, of course, the lousy coarse preview, but also the fact that the eps file becomes monstrously large because the preview is an uncompressed tiff.