Large format printing and scaling to size

[EA_Chris]

Hi all,

I've searched and cannot seem to find an answer.

I'm creating a Banner to go behind a stage for a press conference. The size is 7200 MM x 3300 MM which is too large for Illustrator to handle. So I'm working at 1/4 the size.

My background art is full size created in photoshop, but I scaled it in illustrator. Illustrator has a step and repeat pattern of the company logo on top of the background art.

Now my question is this, How do I generate a print ready PDF at full size? The files are going to be produced in Japan and I'm afraid there may be a language barrier if I ask them to print at 400%. I would prefer to send them a file where all they need to do is print it and not worry about it especially considering the time difference.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[Mylenium]

Assemble everything in InDesign...

Mylenium

[EA_Chris]

Unfortunately Indesign has the same canvas size limitations.

[Scott Falkner]

EA Chris wrote:

Now my question is this, How do I generate a print ready PDF at full size?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

You don’t. Save your PDF at scale and let the printer scale it. Leave no doubt that your artwork is to scale and should be output at 400%.

[Guest]

I currently work for a Large Format Printer. Building files to a smaller scale (ie: Half Size, Quarter Size) is perfectly acceptable.

You should also be aware that the resolution of your raster images only need to be 72 DPI at final output size. So if you are building at half size, your images only need to be 144 DPI. If building at quarter size, the images would need to be 288 DPI.

[Guest]

Russell, large format inkjet's print stochastically using 72 lpi ( lines per inch ) which puts the image resolution at 144 ppi ( pixels per inch ) at 100%.  This is not dpi ( dots per inch ) which is document's output resolution.  My concern is the scaling of the image files in Illustrator.  If the images were typicall 300 ppi image files and were scaled down to 25%; the result is 1200 ppi.  Is this a big deal?  It depends on the RIP.  But, output resolution should also be taken into consideration if you applied any raster effects to the scaled down Illustrator file.  Even if there weren't any, document / raster resolution should be around 2400 dpi for a final output resolution of around 600 dpi.  These numbers should be applied to whatever method will be used to create the final .pdf file.

[Guest]

If what you're telling me is correct, that means everything I've learned in the past 4 months is incorrect and that my co-workers and supervisor have been outputting jobs wrongly for the past 3 years.

We've output many large format files with the images at 72 DPI and they look great, so I'm a wee bit confused with what the information you are supplying.

[EA_Chris]

I agree with Russell here. Working with files that large at 600 dpi would bring any current system to a crawl.

[Guest]

EA Chris wrote:

I agree with Russell here. Working with files that large at 600 dpi would bring any current system to a crawl.

That's another issue I should have mentioned. And where are these customer's going to be able to come up with images with high enough resolution?Most of the time they are just enlarging images previously used for conventional printing jobs at a much smaller media size.

[Guest]

600 dpi = output resolution at 100%; dpi = dots per inch; not 600 ppi; ppi = pixels per inch = image resolution = 144 ppi.

Russell, I understand that 72 ppi will do fine from a distance and you can get away with that image resolution using large format inkjet technology.  I based my numbers on the conventional thinking of resolution = 2x the line screen, hence 72 lpi x 2 = 144 ppi @ 100%.  Document / raster resolution should equal the output resolution.  In this case, that should be 600 dpi, so if the file is going to be enlarged 400%, the document resolution should be 2400 dpi.  Document resolution is not image resolution.  Russell, you are correct in that if the file's image resolution is 72 ppi after being enlarged 400%, then the reduced pdf image resolution should be set to 288 ppi.  So, document resolution ( or output resolution ) at 2400 dpi / image resolution at 288 ppi will equal 600 dpi / 72 ppi respectfully when enlarged.

[Wade_Zimmerman1]

I am afraid John is putting oranges and apples together and calling them grapes.

There are certain devices that will require 255 ppi resolution of a file to properly output such as a Lambda or Lightjet for a fine art digital C print.

But In commercial printing it has never been the case the main reason is that for commercial printing you need a space between the viewer and the printed piece in order for them to be able to read the text and see the visual. The reason fo this is that this about communications and not about resolution.

This is not new to digital age as i started in this business when I was 16 years old and use to help my step brother on occasion at the new york post where the resolution of the printed piece was 60 dpi and that was for all images in the paper, which looked perfectly fine to everyone since it was only a newspaper.

When I was 19 I worked for an ad agency where we on occasion printed 24 sheet posters at something like 20 dpi it took up a whole empty floor of the office building to piece it together you left out sections where the columns where we just wanted to make sure they printed all the pieces.

There is a difference with printing large scale for fine art and printing for display and the resolution today as opposed to the past is the same perhaps it has actually improved today.

Then John makes the assumption that if you print to scale that Illustrator will do something to the file other than just print the same information at a different dimension and not a different file size.

In short you guys are quite correct and John has to rethink the information he is giving you and they guys you work of course know their business quite well.

[Guest]

The point I was making was the reference to 72 dpi being adequate "output" resolution.  I want to make it clear that there are major differences between dpi and ppi.  I stand behind my information.

[chardmont007]

Base on my experience I recommend you to finalize it in photoshop as actual size with 72 res just to be sure. as you said they will produce in Japan. put your self in safe side. AI for vector & line drawing. PSD for image.