13.4: sometimes exclamation mark (!) in corner of thumbnail

[shikamu]

Starting awhile back, maybe 13.3 or 13.2, I started occasionally getting an exclamation mark (!) in the upper right hand corner on random thumbnails in grid view.  I have been using Lightroom since version 4 so for 12 years or so.  This problem never happened before, but now it happens fairly often.  I am talking about photos that were imported before (days, weeks, months, years ago).  It seems totally random.  When it happens usually the photos before and after it in grid view do not have the !.  And in every case there was no ! previously -- it just suddenly appears.

When I click on the ! I get this window:

Usually I select Import Settings from Disk.  Sometimes if I have already done a lot (keywords, star ratings, comment, etc.) then I select Overwrite Settings.

This is all very annoying and it happens to a few random photos every time I use LrC these days.

[Moved from ‘Bugs’ to ‘Discussions’ by moderator, according to forum rules.]

[Califdan2]

Frist let's get the obvious out of the way. 

Do you use any image management or image processing tools other than LrC such as Topaz, Photoshop, Photo Mechanic or any others? 

Do you sync any images with the Adobe Cloud and if so do you ever do anything in Adobe Cloud on those images?

Do you have the your catalog settings set to automatically write XMP to disk files?

[shikamu]

Do you use any image management or image processing tools other than LrC such as Topaz, Photoshop, Photo Mechanic or any others? 

No

Do you sync any images with the Adobe Cloud and if so do you ever do anything in Adobe Cloud on those images?

No

Do you have the your catalog settings set to automatically write XMP to disk files?

No

Many times when this happens to a random photo it is one that has not even been edited.  But it does have keywords, etc.  Now that I think about it, I think it may only happen to random Sony HEIF files.  I don't think I have noticed it on any raw (various cameras going back many years), TIFF, or JPEG files.  As I said, when I notice a file with the ! in the grid the ! was not there when I imported or thereafter.  Occasionally while in the grid I have even seen a ! suddenly appear on a photo.  Very weird.

[GoldingD]

Error Saving Metadata:

• https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/advanced-metadata-actions.html

[Califdan2]

Seeing as how you do not automatically save XMP to disk files, it is expected that the metadata in the catalog will diverge from that stored in/with the images on disk.  This usually manifests itself with a slightly different icon which indicates that there is a mismatch but which gives you the same two options.  

In your case though the warning message indicates the some metadata was changed in the LrC catalog and some was changed on/in the disk files by something else.  This is based on date/time stamps rather than an actual analysis of data values and those values indicated something like,  a) the DTS (date time stamp) of the metadata last gotten from the disk file into LrC is earlier than the current DTS on disk meaning something changed the DTS on the disk file since it was last brought into LrC.  b) Some metadata was also changed by LrC in the catalog.   So, LrC has no idea of what specific information was changed in each place - only that somethjing was changed in both.  

As you indicate that you don't use any outside programs and that you are not trying to keep the data current on disk, my reccomendation is to just ignore the warning Icon and get on with your business.  In other words, trust that the LrC Catalog has the most accurate metadata and don't worry about what's in the metadata on disk.

[shikamu]

Seeing as how you do not automatically save XMP to disk files, it is expected that the metadata in the catalog will diverge from that stored in/with the images on disk.  This usually manifests itself with a slightly different icon which indicates that there is a mismatch but which gives you the same two options.  

I wonder why this ! icon just started appearing on occasional random photos starting in LrC 13.2 or 13.3 though?  And why it seems to only happen with the occasional random Sony HEIF photo?  I still think I have not seen it happen to any of my raw, TIFF, and JPEG files.

In your case though the warning message indicates the some metadata was changed in the LrC catalog and some was changed on/in the disk files by something else.  This is based on date/time stamps rather than an actual analysis of data values and those values indicated something like,  a) the DTS (date time stamp) of the metadata last gotten from the disk file into LrC is earlier than the current DTS on disk meaning something changed the DTS on the disk file since it was last brought into LrC.  b) Some metadata was also changed by LrC in the catalog.   So, LrC has no idea of what specific information was changed in each place - only that somethjing was changed in both.  

I use no software with my photos that are imported into LrC except LrC.  I import them, there are no ! icons, and from then on I don't touch them with anything except LrC.  And most of the photos never get a ! icon on them.  Just the occasional random one, which I think have all been the occasional random Sony HEIF file.  And I don't recall seeing this happen a few months ago.  Maybe started with LrC 13.3 or maybe 13.2.

As you indicate that you don't use any outside programs and that you are not trying to keep the data current on disk, my reccomendation is to just ignore the warning Icon and get on with your business.  In other words, trust that the LrC Catalog has the most accurate metadata and don't worry about what's in the metadata on disk.

Yes, I can do that, but that doesn't mean there isn't a possible bug in LrC and that it may have appeared in a recent release.  As a reminder, I posted this as a bug (but someone moved it).  So, using the kludge of ignoring the problem is okay, it does not fix the actual problem, IMO.

Sorry to be late to reply to you.  I have been international traveling with multiple flights for a few days.

[Califdan2]

Can you provide a screen shot that clearly shows the "!" icon as there are several different ones, with different meanings that may contain an "!" and it will help us address your concerns if we know specifically which one you are referring to.  Also if you clcik on it you should get a pop up dialog which has additional information about the meaning of that particular icon,  Include  a screen shot of that as well.

[shikamu]

See my original post in this thread that has a screenshot of the ! icon.  And in that same post you will see the screenshot of the choices provided.

[DdeGannes]

I do not use any other applications to work with my raw files imported to LrC so if I ever get that option presented I always select the option "Overwrite settings " so my work in LrC is preserved.

[shikamu]

I do not use any other applications to work with my raw files imported to LrC so if I ever get that option presented I always select the option "Overwrite settings " so my work in LrC is preserved.

Ahh, another person who see this ! sometimes.  Does it happen on raw, JPEG, TIFF files for you?  As far as I can recall in recent months it seems to only or mostly happen to my HEIF files.

[GoldingD]

As far as I can recall in recent months it seems to only or mostly happen to my HEIF files.

Ahh, yes, HEIF.

What camera or is it a smart phone that you are taking the HEIF files on?

Not sure if Adobe has improved things yet, but so far if the source is not Apple, then LrC and HEIF do not exactly get along. I would place that at Adobe's footsteps.

Tired it using an Fujiflm camera, and it was a disaster, I have not bothered since.