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M
Mettelaurent
Known Participant
June 6, 2021
Answered

Adobe color and adobe standard v2

  • June 6, 2021
  • 6 replies
  • 13062 views

I recently upgraded my old Canon 5D Classic (!) to Canon EOS R and I am struggling with editing.

My good ol' tried and true presets look dull - especially in the skintones. Most presets use either the Adobe Color profile or Adobe Standard. 
But whether I use presets or not I have big problems getting the look I want. 

My experience:

Adobe Color looks absolutely dull. The skintones look washed out, grey and have a cyan/green tint which is impossible to correct - unless I use ALL the sliders available in ALL the panels. And this "breaks" my presets and changes the look I want.

Adobe standard looks flat and magenta.

Adobe standard V2 looks dull - like Adobe color. The skin tones look lifeless.

Then I try to change to Camera standard and Camera standard V2 - and this changes everything to harsh contrasty orange.

In other words: I am spending way too much time correcting my photos to make them look pleasing and natural. 

Am I doing something wrong? 
Thanks in advance.

    Correct answer Todd Shaner

    The Adobe Standard camera profile metrics were "silently" changed Q3 2014. Cameras models introduced after September 2014 have Adobe standard profiles with lower color saturation and contrast.

     

    https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/camera-raw-and-dng/camera-rawlightroom-5d-mark-iv-wrong-dcp-profile-from-adobe/5f5f45d84b561a3d4262c089?commentId=5f5f485c4b561a3d421b8616

     

    The links in the above post are no longer supported due to usage of new forum software. However, you can use the Adobe DNG Profile Editor (DPE) to modify the EOS R Adobe Standard profile for legacy rendering the same as your Canon 5D camera.

    Mac
    https://supportdownloads.adobe.com/detail.jsp?ftpID=5493
    Windows
    https://supportdownloads.adobe.com/detail.jsp?ftpID=5494
    User Guide
    http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/cs6/DNGProfile_...
     
    The Canon EOS R Adobe Standard camera profile can be found in the below folder location. (Sorry, but I can't find the Mac folder location and I'm on Windows.)
     
    Windows
    C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard

    Here are the DPE settings used for the Legacy Adobe Standard camera profile:
     
    Place the new custom camera profile in the below folder location and restart LrC to load it.
     

    Windows—C: \ Users \ [your username] \ AppData \ Roaming \ Adobe \ CameraRaw \ CameraProfiles

     

    Mac—Macintosh HD / Users / [your username] / Library / Application Support / Adobe / CameraRaw / CameraProfiles

     

    6 replies

    S
    sandrotto
    Participant
    June 8, 2021

    I had and have the very same issues with my EOS R5 (coming from the 5D MkIV). The reason for all this is that Adobe refuses to provide camera matching profiles for any newer Canon camera that uses the CR3 (vs. CR2) Raw format. 

     

    The photos I get straight out of the R5 do not look pleasing and it is virtually impossible to recreate the wonderful colors of the 5D MkIV, no matter what I do. 

     

    I just read that with the the Camera Raw update released a short while ago, Adobe finally supports a Canon Camera using the CR3 format - the Canon M50. I hope that this is a good sign that more camera matching profiles for other CR3 cameras like the EOS R or EOS R5/6 will be released soon ("soon" in Adobe terms means in a couple of months at the earliest).

    S
    sandrotto
    Participant
    June 8, 2021

    Just realized that the CR3 support for the M50 has been released a long time ago and no further CR3 cameras have been supported in Lightroom ever since. Looks like the saga will continue.

     

    I will cancel my Lightroom subscription as soon as I will have found a valid alternative. That's the only option left after months of waiting for a proper camera matchting profile for my R5...

    Ian Lyons
    Community Expert
    Ian LyonsCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    June 8, 2021

    The only CR3 based camera with Camera Matching profiles is the EOS R (Adobe just used the profiles from the 5D MkIV as it has the same sensor).

     

    Regarding the missing profiles, you can download free profiles that are a reasonably good subsitute for the missing Camera Matching profiles for all CR3 based cameras at https://www.jimmynordstrom.se/showpost?id=83 yellow/oranage are a tad hot, but dialing back the saturation seems to be solution that others have settled on.

     

     

    Todd Shaner
    Todd ShanerCorrect answer
    Legend
    June 7, 2021

    The Adobe Standard camera profile metrics were "silently" changed Q3 2014. Cameras models introduced after September 2014 have Adobe standard profiles with lower color saturation and contrast.

     

    https://feedback.photoshop.com/conversations/camera-raw-and-dng/camera-rawlightroom-5d-mark-iv-wrong-dcp-profile-from-adobe/5f5f45d84b561a3d4262c089?commentId=5f5f485c4b561a3d421b8616

     

    The links in the above post are no longer supported due to usage of new forum software. However, you can use the Adobe DNG Profile Editor (DPE) to modify the EOS R Adobe Standard profile for legacy rendering the same as your Canon 5D camera.

    Mac
    https://supportdownloads.adobe.com/detail.jsp?ftpID=5493
    Windows
    https://supportdownloads.adobe.com/detail.jsp?ftpID=5494
    User Guide
    http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/acom/en/products/photoshop/pdfs/cs6/DNGProfile_...
     
    The Canon EOS R Adobe Standard camera profile can be found in the below folder location. (Sorry, but I can't find the Mac folder location and I'm on Windows.)
     
    Windows
    C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic\Resources\CameraProfiles\Adobe Standard

    Here are the DPE settings used for the Legacy Adobe Standard camera profile:
     
    Place the new custom camera profile in the below folder location and restart LrC to load it.
     

    Windows—C: \ Users \ [your username] \ AppData \ Roaming \ Adobe \ CameraRaw \ CameraProfiles

     

    Mac—Macintosh HD / Users / [your username] / Library / Application Support / Adobe / CameraRaw / CameraProfiles

     

      M
      MettelaurentAuthor
      Known Participant
      June 9, 2021

      I can't believe it!!

       

      I downloaded the Profile editor, loaded an image, applied the Adobe Standard for EOS R and made the adjustments above. Then exported as a custom profile.

      Now ALL my presets work the way they are supposed to without having to tweak them to death! 

      The adobe standard profile lacked contrast and saturation and these settings gives everything a little boost that makes everything look GOOD!! 

      I am so relieved .... ❤️

        Todd Shaner
        Todd Shaner
        Legend
        June 9, 2021

        Glad to hear that is working for you! IMHO the original Adobe Standard camera profile was pretty darn good for most subject and lighting types.

        TheDigitalDog
        TheDigitalDog
        Inspiring
        June 7, 2021

        Consider getting a ColorChecker  and making your own custom DCP profiles. Or borrow a target if you can. There are several free products (one from Adobe) that allow you to roll your own, and the Adobe product even edits them. You only need a few; for different illuminants. Can make a huge difference!

        Also see:

        Everything you thought you wanted to know about DNG/DCP camera profiles:
        All about In this 30 minute video, we will look into the creation and use of DNG (.dcp) camera profiles in three raw converters. The video covers:
        What are DNG camera profiles, how do they differ from ICC camera profiles.
        Misconceptions about DNG camera profiles.
        Just when, and why do you need to build custom DNG camera profiles?
        How to build custom DNG camera profiles using the X-rite Passport software.
        The role of various illuminants on camera sensors and DNG camera profiles.
        Dual Illuminant DNG camera profiles.
        Examples of usage of DNG camera profiles in Lightroom, ACR, and Iridient Developer.
        Low Rez (YouTube):
        http://youtu.be/_fikTm8XIt4
        High Rez (download):
        http://www.digitaldog.net/files/DNG%20Camera%20profile%20video.mov

        Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
        M
        MettelaurentAuthor
        Known Participant
        June 7, 2021

        I have definitely considered doing just that and invest in a color checker. I don't really "trust" the way LR interpretes the Camera standard v2 profiles...

        I have tried tweaking a profile and then saving it as a profile in ACR and it works - sometimes;)

        Thanks for the links...I have a feeling creating a custom profile for my cam is the best way to go, so I at least have a True to real color starting point to build my LOOK upon.

         

         

        D
        DS256
        Inspiring
        June 7, 2021

        First, I would start without presets. How do your photo's look? Has there been a change from past images? If so, has anything changed like the white balance setting in the camera which is used for the 'As Shot' in temperature? Have you tried playing around with temperature and tint before trying different profiles? 

        Also, as others have point out, if you are procesing JPG instead of RAW then that changes the discussion.

         

        M
        MettelaurentAuthor
        Known Participant
        June 7, 2021

        Yes, after trying all my presets and not getting close to nice skin tones with any of the many profiles and tons of tweaks, I usually start all over from scratch:

        First adjusting exposure (I try to nail it, but it still needs some tweaking, then WB - I usually go with AUTO and then adjust in small increments, or I pick a neutral target and adjust from there - or I eyeball it). I use in camera Auto with white priority to have a good starting point.

         

        When the overall WB looks all right  (white wall, natural colored clothes etc) I then adjust the contrasts etc all the while looking at the skin tones. But something is off - they often look either muddy or contrasty or a combination - often with a cyan/green undertone. I then start adjusting the HSL sliders and then go to Calibration and often curves - I often need to soften the V2 Camera profiles considerably... And of course spending 30 minutes on one photo is not an option.

        It really shouldn't be this crazy hard.

         

        My "models" are mostly myself (practising) and other mature women. And we tend to have somewhat uneven skin with reddish splotches (40+). 

        I am really just so discouraged because I have been able to shoot and edit beautiful photos for 10 years and now suddenly with a new camera I am back to square one, feeling like a complete beginner. It picks up every single uneven skintone and well I can't figure out what looks pleasing anymore.

         

        I have watched so many youtube vids of pros shooting with the EOS R and their photos come out perfect with even clean skin tones. Mine look muddy and rugged and just awful. 

        I shoot RAW and have used LR since 2012 at least. 

        I am just really discouraged, I guess.

         

        I like using presets because I like the look (mostly Mastin presets because they are not overly stylized). And I try to get the look on my own, but I can't seem to get there.

        I need help to find my vibe again and get those nice natural skin tones without having to move every single slider around:)

        One thing I do know: All my custom homemade presets that worked for a variety of situations on my 5D, definitely don't look good now. 

         

        I will continue to pracice my exposure and try and create some presets from scratch, but it is very difficult to get the real look without the presets and then they still look not right. But maybe I have lost sight of what "Right" is...

         

        Thanks in advance for taking the time to listen to my whining:) 

         

         

        GoldingD
        GoldingD
        Legend
        June 7, 2021

        Ditch the Adobe profiles and use the Camera Matching profiles. IMO that is a better starting point.

        assuming RAW

         

        see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbYK7rzL_38

         

          M
          MettelaurentAuthor
          Known Participant
          June 7, 2021

          I usually apply a preset and then try so many version with different color profiles and some just suck the life out of the skin tones, and some are extremely orange and harsh. It is very frustrating. 

           

          JP Hess
          JP Hess
          Inspiring
          June 6, 2021

          I don't shoot Canon, but I have been told by someone on this forum who purchased profiles from this company that these profiles are very good.

          https://www.colorfidelity.com/canon.htm 

          M
          MettelaurentAuthor
          Known Participant
          June 7, 2021

          Hi, I did - and they work somehow - just not with any of my paid for presets. It turns them green. 
          It can be a good starting point for my manual adjusting, but I like presets that give my photos a certain style and somehow all my built-in profiles - and the CF profiles - just don't look good anymore.

           

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