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StreetwiseCreative
Known Participant
July 18, 2019
Question

Assigned Profiles: None, Embedded, Adobe Neutral?

  • July 18, 2019
  • 3 replies
  • 3455 views

A couple of years ago, whenever I would import RAW files into Lightroom, shot with either my Canon 5dII or 5dIV, images would display a "None" for camera profile. This was what I became accustomed to (and expected since they are RAW). For my architectural interiors and especially art reproduction work, it was a great starting point. Somewhere along the line, I feel like LR has changed in the way that it assigns profiles.

Fast-forward to now, I've migrated over to Sony mirrorless and am running the latest LR CC. When I import my RAW files in, they are WAY too punchy and oversaturated. There is a profile that is automatically assigned (Adobe Standard) which was never done before which I can recall. (I don't see where I can turn off an option to have one randomly assigned for me.) The closest I can come is "Adobe Neutral" or "Camera Neutral" which is slightly more saturated.  Interestingly, if I pull up an older RAW image shot with the Canon, the profile says "embedded". I'm not sure why that would be?

1) Is it possible to turn off profile assignment with RAW files?

2) What is the most linear profile available for art reproduction before exporting to Photoshop for further color tweaking? Adobe Neutral?

3) What is the difference between the Adobe profiles and "Camera Matching" profiles? (The camera matching ones seem more saturated)

4) How do I know that "Camera Matching" is specific to my Sony?

Sorry for the questions. I've searched the forums but could find anything specific to this. Thanks in advance!

Dave

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3 replies

elie_dinur
elie_dinur
Participating Frequently
July 19, 2019

1) Is it possible to turn off profile assignment with RAW files?

4) How do I know that "Camera Matching" is specific to my Sony?

These two questions are contradictory. All the Adobe supplied profiles for Raw files are camera specific, that is why there is always a lag between the release of the model and its support in LR. (The new "Creative" profiles that can be used with rendered images are, of course, generic.) It is precisely the use of an "Adobe Raw" or a "Camera Matching" DCP profile with its camera appropriate TRC, as the first step in the workflow that makes the whole process camera-specific.

    S
    StreetwiseCreativeAuthor
    Known Participant
    July 19, 2019

    @elie_di  Let me explain:

    1) Is it possible to turn off profile assignment with RAW files? Apparently not from what everyone has said here.

    4) How do I know that "Camera Matching" is specific to my Sony? This question assumed that the answer to #1 is "no", so it's not contradictory.   You mention a lag between camera and LR support. So what you're saying is that if I hypothetically shot an image with the new Sony a7RIV (announced this past week) and brought it into LR, "Camera Matching" wouldn't even be an option since the support isn't there yet?

    J
    Community Expert
    Jao vdLCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    July 19, 2019

    So what you're saying is that if I hypothetically shot an image with the new Sony a7RIV (announced this past week) and brought it into LR, "Camera Matching" wouldn't even be an option since the support isn't there yet?

    You won't even be able to import files from the new a7rIV for quite a while until Adobe updates Lightroom with support for that camera. The current Lightroom version for sure doesn't support it. Adding support entails indeed profiling the response of the camera with color charts and creating all the profiles but also adding the code to read the raw files specific from that camera. I fully expect weeks/months of grumbling on this forum on why Lightroom doesn't support people's new and shiny camera yet. This is something that happens overtime a new camera gets released.

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      July 19, 2019

      Embedded means it's not a raw, it's an existing rendered image (JPEG, TIFF etc) with some RGB ICC profile used. LR doesn’t unfortunately tell you what ICC profile that is (and it doesn't matter all that much). Raw or not, there's no way NOT to have some profile (.dcp or ICC) 'assigned'.

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      JohanElzenga
      Community Expert
      JohanElzengaCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      July 18, 2019

      No, it’s not possible to not have any profile at all, because the profile is part of the rendering. However, you can select a different profile and then change the default camera settings so this profile is used by default from now on.

      The camera matching profiles are profiles created by Adobe that try to match certain in-camera jpeg settings. Lightroom reads which camera you used from the metadata, so you can be sure that the correct profiles are shown.

      The older image in your screenshot is not a raw image. It is a tiff, psd or jpeg image and those images have embedded profiles. You can see that this is not a raw image from the white balance sliders. Raw images have white balance sliders with temperature in degrees, because you can still set the temperature. An rgb image has white balance ‘baked in’, so you can only tweak the white balance with a small plus or minus correction, and so the sliders both start at zero.

      By the way, older versions of Lightroom only had a handful of profiles, but the profile was never ‘none’. You don’t remember that correctly.

      -- Johan W. Elzenga
        S
        StreetwiseCreativeAuthor
        Known Participant
        July 19, 2019

        "The camera matching profiles are profiles created by Adobe that try to match certain in-camera jpeg settings. Lightroom reads which camera you used from the metadata, so you can be sure that the correct profiles are shown."

        @JohanElzenga

        So which is a more accurate linear starting point? Adobe Neutral, or Camera Neutral?

        TheDigitalDog
        TheDigitalDog
        Inspiring
        July 19, 2019

        StreetwiseCreative  wrote

        "The camera matching profiles are profiles created by Adobe that try to match certain in-camera jpeg settings. Lightroom reads which camera you used from the metadata, so you can be sure that the correct profiles are shown."

        @JohanElzenga

        So which is a more accurate linear starting point? Adobe Neutral, or Camera Neutral?

        None are more (colorimetrically) color accurate. The right one to use is the one you prefer visually which is subjective.

        Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
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