BUG? Exported image has severe grey cast

[dfsdafbrebwrhb]

The Export function in Lightroom is giving a grey cast.
The attached example clearly shows this - the white area surrounding the drawing is rendered grey when the exported image is viewed with, for example, Microsoft Photos app or when embedded in an email.

The image was taken with a Lumix camera with the colour space set to sRGB and exported as JPEG and sRGB.
Lightroom Classic 10.2 Camera RAW 13.2 on Windows 10

Strangely, I created a slideshow and used the "Export PDF" button. The image is OK (see second attachment)

[Per Berntsen]

Lightroom uses the monitor profile to display correct colors (colors are converted from the document profile to the monitor profile). The Photos app is not color managed, and will not display correct colors.

I suspect that you have a wide gamut monitor (what make and model is it?), in which case you have to use only color managed applications to view your work. Windows does not come with a color managed image viewer, so you have to use a third party viewer.

Here are some options:

1. FastStone image viewer. Free for personal use. Color management must be enabled under Settings > CMS, and both boxes must be checked,
2. ACDSee. Not free. Color managed out of the box.
3. Irfanview. Free for none commercial use. Color management must be enabled under Options > Properties/Settings.
4. Bridge. Included in your Creative Cloud subscription.

I have inserted one of your screenshots below.

In the future, please post images directly in your posts, so that we don't have to download and save them - use the Insert photos button in the toolbar.

[dfsdafbrebwrhb]

Thank you for your suggestions.

Unfortunately, the problem arrises when images are emailed to others, and I have no control of their software and hardware. Surely, if it is saved as sRGB then it should display correctly.

I've tried it on a colour managed monitor (FlexScam SZ246W and an unmanaged one (iiyama) with the same results

(I note your comment about embedding images)

[Per Berntsen]

Surely, if it is saved as sRGB then it should display correctly.

It will only display correctly when viewed in a color managed application (and on a calibrated monitor).

Applications without color management know nothing about sRGB or the monitor profile. They just send the uncorrected colors to the screen.

The combination of a wide gamut monitor and non-color managed software inevitably leads to over saturation.

On standard gamut monitors, the difference will be smaller, and maybe even negligible.

As you say, you have no control of other peoples software and hardware.

But you can tell Windows users to use color managed image viewers. No native Windows software is color managed, including Photos, Paint, File Explorer, Desktop.

On Mac computers this is not a problem, since all software is color managed.

[dfsdafbrebwrhb]

Your comment seems to imply you can't use Lightroom to produce output for gerneral consumption via the web or email. Surely that can't be right. I'd wecome a comment from Adobe

[D Fosse]

You're missing the point. You are the one who bought a wide gamut monitor, not everyone else.

When you buy a wide gamut monitor, you need to know the implications. The most important one is that you can only use fully color managed software with that monitor. That's the deal, and you accepted that deal when you bought it.

Everyone else don't have wide gamut monitors (or if they do, they need to deal with it in the same way).

The gray surround is a completely different matter. That's just an underexposed photo. It shows much more clearly against a white background, but it's there in the other one too.

[TheDigitalDog]

---

@dfsdafbrebwrhb wrote:

Surely, if it is saved as sRGB then it should display correctly.

---

Not without color management! Without color management, sRGB is a meaningless concept. The RGB values are sent, as is, directly to the display. See:

sRGB urban legend & myths Part 2

In this 17 minute video, I'll discuss some more sRGB misinformation and cover:

When to use sRGB and what to expect on the web and mobile devices

How sRGB doesn't insure a visual match without color management, how to check

The downsides of an all sRGB workflow

sRGB's color gamut vs. "professional" output devices

The future of sRGB and wide gamut display technology Photo print labs that demand sRGB for output

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/sRGBMythsPart2.mp4

Low resolution on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvVUL1gWVs

[dfsdafbrebwrhb]

Many thanks

However, let's reset.

How do I import an image from my camera into Lightroom, change the exposure etc and export it so the changes show up when viewed in non-colour managed apps (including web browsers)?

[D Fosse]

OK. There are several independent things here and we need to tick them off one by one.

But before I do that, it's important that you understand what color management is, and why there will always be a visual difference between applications that do it (Lightroom), and applications that don't (Windows "Photos"). I can't go into all that now, but the crucial fact here is that "Photos" does not use your monitor profile to display the image. It ignores all profiles.

So. The "gray cast" first. Your photo is underexposed, plain and simple. There is a gray "cast" in both, but a little less in the properly color managed version in Lightroom. The exaggerated difference you saw is an optical illusion caused by the different backgrounds. Here I removed the background:

The fix is to increase the exposure when shooting, so that you get proper whites.

Now, to the wide gamut issue. To my knowledge, there has never been an Eizo FlexScan called SZ246W, so I don't know what you actually have. Some Flexscans are wide gamut, most of them not. However, your screenshot indicates wide gamut because of the increased saturation without color management. This is what wide gamut monitors do.

Again, wide gamut monitors absolutely require full color management to display correctly. Actually all monitors require that, but with wide gamut monitors it really jumps in your face. They will oversaturate sRGB material unless remapped into the larger monitor color space. The monitor profile handles this (if it is used!).

The short version of this is that if you don't understand the implications of having a wide gamut monitor, you shouldn't have one. You need to take precautions if you want it to display correctly. You must have a calibrator, and you must use color managed software. No exceptions!

So. What do you do in Lightroom to export for web? You do what everyone does: convert to sRGB and make sure the profile is embedded. That's it. You don't do anything special in Lightroom beyond that.

That has the greatest likelihood of displaying roughly correctly, in the highest number of possible scenarios.

If you don't have color management, an sRGB file will display roughly right on an average monitor. It will not display correctly on a wide gamut monitor! Then you need color management to get that monitor to display the sRGB file correctly. That's the deal.

[dfsdafbrebwrhb]

Thanks for the detailed reply

I omitted a "2" from the monitor name..

It is calibrated with a Spyder

I fully agree the image is underexposed, but I was trying to use the Lightroom "Exposure" control in "Develop" to fix this. However, the Lightroom develop window does not show the same image as MS Photos etc. after export

Oh well, we'll leave it there.

Thanks again

[D Fosse]

Ah yes, the SX2462. That's one of the classic Eizos, a very fine monitor. The current equivalent would be the Coloredge CS series. Unfortunately it didn't support the ColorNavigator calibration software, you either had to use the simpler EasyPix software, or a third-party calibrator.

Either way - yes, this is a wide gamut model, and therefore comes with the usual caveats as outlined above.

And as I said, and GoldingD says again because it needs repeating: this is just the dark background fooling the eye. It's why I never liked dark application interfaces. It very effectively hides muddy highlights because the eye has nothing to refer to.

[GoldingD]

One issue to note

Background on your monitor while editing, vs background on their monitor

A gray background  or border vs a white background  or border can affect perceived visualization

You need to check the  work in LrC with the assumed border. Fir example, by default Facebook will show  images against a white background. This effects the eye on how you see the image.

.