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Crop to A4 paper size

Community Beginner ,
May 04, 2008 May 04, 2008

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Is there a Metric setting for Lightroom and cropping to ISO standard papers?

Thanks

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Community Expert ,
May 04, 2008 May 04, 2008

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In the crop part of develop you crop to a ratio not to a size. You can define any ratio you want. Just go into the little popup. Alternatively, simply go into print, setup an A4 paper with no margins and make sure you set the image to scale. This will give you an instant crop at A4 when you print. You can move the image around to get a better crop if needed.

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New Here ,
Aug 20, 2008 Aug 20, 2008

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The standard (fixed) crop sizes seem to be in inches and not centimeters. When I crop and subsequently print a picture at the local shop in Germany, the sizes don't match exactly. The same is true in PS Elements 6. I have not found the preference where I can change this to the standard print sizes in Germany.

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Community Expert ,
Aug 20, 2008 Aug 20, 2008

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>The standard (fixed) crop sizes seem to be in inches and not centimeters

No they are not, they are ratios. They do NOT have units. When you select 4:6, One dimension simply relaqtes to the other as 4 relates to 6. There is NO length scale involved. One thing you need to realize is that the machines in Europe very often are exactly the same machines used on this side of the pond. Silly enough, they will print on inch-sized papers. What this means is that when they tell you 10x15cm, it is actually 4x6 inches or 10.16x15.24 cm. For many sizes, this implies that the ratios in the rounded off centimeter sizes are not the actual aspect ratios. For example, a 13x18 cm print is really 5x7 inches. This is a slightly different ratio and cropping to 13x18 ratio will give you a wrong ratio for the actual paper size.

Lastly, be aware that most lab printers apply a slight bleed, which means that they slightly enlarge the image in order to be able to cut the edges so that you do not get white rims.

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New Here ,
Aug 20, 2008 Aug 20, 2008

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Thanks for the interesting information. Consequently, I should select:
1) 5x7 when I plan to make a 13x18 print.
2) 4x6 for a 10x15 print.

What is the correct ratio for 20x15 and 30x20?

Based on what you wrote, it seems to me that the ratio is 8x6 and 12x8, respectively. But neither are listed.

Why are both 8x10 and 8.5x11 listed? (Only 8x10 is listed in PSE 6.)

Lastly, how do I flip the crop between landscape and portrait?

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Community Expert ,
Aug 20, 2008 Aug 20, 2008

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>What is the correct ratio for 20x15 and 30x20?

I am not sure about those sizes, but 20x15 has the ratio 4:3, so that is likely a digicam oriented format. The paper is probably really 8"x6", or 20.32x15.24 cm. 30x20 is simply a 6x4 ratio of course but larger. The real size is likely 12"x8" or 30.48x20.32cm, which is also a very standard size for the lab printers.

>Why are both 8x10 and 8.5x11 listed? (Only 8x10 is listed in PSE 6.)

8x10 is a traditional photography format (it's 200% enlarged 4x5) that has ratio 4x5. 8.5x11 is the aspect ratio of a letter-sized piece of paper. Letter is as you probably know what is used in the US in place of A4. It annoys me that Lightroom does not have A sizes as a standard ratio. The European A sizes all have square-root of 2 to 1 ratios (about 1.41:1) and nicely sits between 4:3 and 6:4.

>Lastly, how do I flip the crop between landscape and portrait?

Drag one of the corners of the crop below or above the 45 degree line with respect to the opposite corner and the crop will flip. It takes some getting used to. Not very intuitive indeed.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 20, 2008 Aug 20, 2008

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>What is the correct ratio for 20x15 and 30x20?

4x3 for 20x15 (this will have to be entered as a custom ratio) and either 2x3 or 4x6 (same ratio) for 30x20.

>Why are both 8x10 and 8.5x11 listed? (Only 8x10 is listed in PSE 6.)

8"x10" was a very common photo printing size in the U.S. in the days of silver-and-chemical printing. 8.5"x11" is standard U.S. letter size paper (instead of A4), which is also a common size for digital print paper. Few if any digital printing papers are made in 8"x10", but because frames and precut mattes are typically made for that size, it is common to make the prints on letter size paper, cropped for the older-size matte.

>how do I flip the crop between landscape and portrait?

Grab one of the corner crop handles and move it to where it would be in the other orientation. For example, if it's portrait, grab the upper right handle and move it down and to the right, and the orientation will become landscape.

(Jao made the same points while I was typing away.)

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New Here ,
Aug 21, 2008 Aug 21, 2008

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Bring up the custom crop dialog box and enter 11.69 x 8.26 (inches)and you will get a nice A4 crop. Works perfectly for me.

Dana

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Community Expert ,
Aug 21, 2008 Aug 21, 2008

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>11.69 x 8.26 (inches)

Actually that is almost as good as entering 1.414x1. Remember the crop has no units! All A sizes have a length to width ratio of sqrt(2) to 1, which equals 1.414213..., so 11.69/8.26=1.4152... is just a tad too long and 1.414 is very close to it.

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New Here ,
Aug 21, 2008 Aug 21, 2008

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11.69/8.26=1.4152... is just a tad too long

Absolutely correct! Always get an error message when printing that there will be a clip. Amounts to 1mm so not a worry. Didn't know about the sqrt(2)to 1 ratio. Got the figures from the CS3 print dialog box that gives you the paper size in inches when you choose A4 paper. Thanks for the clarification.

Dana

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Community Expert ,
Aug 21, 2008 Aug 21, 2008

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Being a nerd, it's one of things I really like about the A formats. You can always make the next size by simply putting two of the smaller together because of the sqrt(2) thing, so two A4s create an A3, and so on, and all A formats have the same length to width ratio. It does come at the price of one of the dimensions always being an irrational number.

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New Here ,
Aug 24, 2008 Aug 24, 2008

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Every pack of A4 paper says sheets are 210 x 297 mm.

So just create a custom crop size of 210 x 297.

A3 would be twice as big at 420 x 297 and A3Plus would be whatever it says on the pack (can't remember offhand).

I suppose the real question is why doesn't Lightroom have these as standard ratios. That way Adobe could claim it had customized the product for the European market to justify it's foreign pricing strategy.

Ian

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New Here ,
Nov 02, 2008 Nov 02, 2008

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Does A4 equal PA4 Wikipedia say so..
PA series
PA4-based series Name mm × mm Ratio
PA0 840 × 1120 3:4
PA1 560 × 840 2:3
PA2 420 × 560 3:4
PA3 280 × 420 2:3
PA4 210 × 280 3:4
PA5 140 × 210 2:3
PA6 105 × 140 3:4
PA7 70 × 105 2:3
PA8 52 × 70 ≈3:4
PA9 35 × 52 ≈2:3
PA10 26 × 35 ≈3:4

A transitional size called PA4 (210 mm × 280 mm, 8¼ in × 11 in) was proposed for inclusion into the ISO 216 standard in 1975. It has the height of Canadian P4 paper (215 mm × 280 mm, about 8½ in × 11 in) and the width of international A4 paper (210 mm × 297 mm). The table to the right shows how this format can be generalized into an entire format series.

The PA formats did not end up in ISO 216, because the committee felt that the set of standardized paper formats should be kept to the minimum necessary. However, PA4 remains of practical use today. In landscape orientation, it has the same 4:3 aspect ratio as the displays of traditional TV sets, some computer displays and data projectors. PA4, with appropriate margins, is therefore a good choice as the format of presentation slides. At the same time, PA4 is the largest format that fits on both A4 and US/Canadian Letter paper without resizing.

PA4 is used today by many international magazines, because it can be printed easily on equipment designed for either A4 or US Letter.

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New Here ,
Nov 02, 2008 Nov 02, 2008

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Well a true A4 does sound like it equals a true PA4..

The ratio for a PA4 is 4:3 and a A4 is 1.414:1 .
Is that a correct statement.

I'm not sure which one to use?
Well I guess I'll go with the A4 1.414:1 and hope for the best.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 02, 2008 Nov 02, 2008

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As I noted above, the idea behind the A sizes is that doubling them up along the length direction will create the next size up (or cutting one in half creates two of the next size down). This is done geometrically by using the ratio of square-root of two to 1. Since square-root of two is an irrational number there is no number you can type in the field that is exact, but 1.414:1 is close. 210 x 297 is slightly closer to square-root 2 to 1 though. You're never going to notice the difference though and both should be fine.

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New Here ,
Dec 07, 2008 Dec 07, 2008

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How do I set Lightroom to give me metric measurements in the page setup?

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Community Expert ,
Dec 07, 2008 Dec 07, 2008

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LATEST
The top popup in the layout section (ruler units) allows you to choose between many different units.

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