Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.
Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).
The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.
Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.
Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.
I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.
I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.
How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?
Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?
Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?
Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?
Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.
Adobe Certified Expert
OS X 10.9 users who also have Photoshop - could you try with OpenGL turned off? That should return Photoshop to the same modus operandi as Lightroom. I think trshaners theory sounds very plausible.
Under Windows all color management is performed by the application code (unless farmed out to the GPU), but under OS X the actual conversion is handed over to ColorSync (for which there is no equivalent in Windows). So I think this could explain it all.
Nothing changes in the display in PS CC when you turn off OpenGL. The shadows stay the same. I even made sure to restart Photoshop between changing settings. The problems mentioned above were an issue with the default profile Apple included in Mavericks for some displays. This was not a problem for the preponderance of people and also not a problem if you calibrate yourself.
So it's still a mystery why LR has the issue and PS doesn't. What about other color managed applications or viewers, do they exhibit the issue?
Since the differences observed appear to be subjective try downloading the blacktest.png at the link in post #16. Then follow the instructions in post #20 to measure the actual screen patch values for each application. Do a screen capture with your OS X 10.9 system using LR, PS and at least one other color manged app or viewer and compare the darkest patch values in question. On my Windows 7 system the patches are virtually identical in all applications, including LR Library and Develop.
OK. Just did this. In a screenshot from Library (shift-command-3), after conversion to sRGB, the values are identical to the original (i.e the numbers in the patches correspond to the eye-dropper values). In Develop,
patch = eye dropper value
1 = 0
2 = 0
3 = 1
4 = 2
5 = 3
6 = 3
7 = 3
8 = 4
9 = 4
10 = 4
11 = 5
12 = 6
13 = 7
14 = 10
15 = 11
20 = 19
25 = 25
30 = 30
40 = 49
255 = 255
So this is a major problem. Profile from Spyder 3 Pro. Standard icc v2 profile. I did the same thing on a Mac running 10.8 and there the problem does not show up. It is only Lightroom on Mavericks as far as I can tell that has the problem. Interestingly, these values appear quite similar to the sRGB tone curve and indeed if instead of converting to sRGB, I assign sRGB, the values are close (but one too high in many cases) to normal. Perhaps Lightroom is querying the operating system for the display profile and gets the (erroneous) answer that it is sRGB because of a bug in Mavericks. That would result in a result like this.
Looked at a few other applications, and amazingly, Aperture has the problem too (had to convert the png to a RGB tiff to import into Aperture). This is clearly a Mavericks bug. If you care about your color, do not upgrade your Mac to Mavericks yet!
Thank you Jao for testing and confirming this is a Mavericks OS X issue.
I submitted a bug report to Apple.
Ok guys, we're collecting many opinions that prove the problem exists and is quite frequent. Adobe can't ignore the issue anymore.
Photoshop CC has also some problems when it comes to render shadows under Mac OSX if the OpenGL option is ON and set to other than Basic: bad luminosity and color cast.
I found this issue on Intel HD4000 based Macs, I ignore others.
The right way to checking this issue is the following:
- Set OpenGL option ON and set it to Advanced
- Open a photograph with dark shadows
- Zoom at least 66% on the dark zone
- Go to Edit=>Color Settings and enable advanced interface
- Set Desaturate Monitor to 1%
- Looking at the shadow zone of the photo check and uncheck Desaturate Monitor
If the shadows change ( sometimes changes are subtle sometimes heavy) you have my same issue.
I fixed it setting OpenGL to basic.
Adobe should fix that also... But I repeat again: this
But I repeat again: this issue shows up on HD4000 based macs (mabook pro and mac mini), I really don't know if it happens also on ati or nvidia based ones
Exact same issue here. I just add FYI that shadows get back to normal in Develop when Soft Proofing is ON (both sRGB and AdobeRGB).
Darker shadows in LR Develop module with Soft Proofing OFF only, not in Library (and not in Photoshop and apparently not in Camera RAW as well)
Dell series U2713H Monitor with matrix profile done by i1Pro2+i1Profiler
The bug report I put in was closed as an external bug. That means they've checked into it and confirmed that it's a bug that Apple need to fix (and I assume reported it to Apple too).
Thanks Victoria. I reported it to Apple through my developer account. Haven’t heard anything from them. They’re more likely to respond to Adobe if they have submitted a report anyway. Hopefully this will get fixed in the upcoming OS X update but I haven’t had time to check into that.
Hi all, just to put in my 20 cents worth.
I'm having a similar issue with my MacBook Pro with Retina Display. But I haven't updated the Osx to Mavericks. My OS X is 10.8.5 build 12f45 running an Nvidia GT 650 1024 MB.
I got my Mac a few months ago but I've been relying on my Windows Based laptop to process my Raw files until recently. I shoot time lapses and I've noticed that when I work in Lightroom 5 i'll edit and export the 400+ Raw frames in a sequence. Only to find they've been exported lighter that they appear in Lightroom's Develop Module when compiled into a QuickTime movie.
I thought it was my screen calibration that I've done with Spyder Pro 4. But now that I've come across this forum thread I can see I'm not alone. So until it's fixed I'll just have to use Lightroom 5 on my Windows Laptop (which is a shame as the Mac is faster) and then just use the Mac to edit my Time Lapse video clips.
I thought it might help as I haven't upgraded to Mavericks yet.
Here's hoping they fix the issue and soon!
Btw thanks for everyone that's posted, it's been helpful.
Message was edited by: Phoenixomen
Phoenixomen, I am guessing that your QuickTime export issue us due to something else as I tested on 10.8 and the bug is not there. Movie export from Lightroom is just not very good and indeed tends to end up with incorrect gamma depending on which player you use to play the exported movies. What you should do is run the exported time lapse through handbrake (Google for it, it is awesome) and you'll see the gamma corrected. It will also cut down the size of the file by many times as the movie export from Lightroom is really poorly done and you can compress the files by a factor of 4 without losing quality. This is especially true for time lapses. Also, the windows and Mac versions of Lightroom use the exact same compression codec so you won't see a difference. In my experience they output the exact same file for the same setting and I'd still run them through handbrake.
I had a similar problem with video on my WIndows 7 system where blacks were washed out. It was an issue with the Nvdia graphics driver video color settings under 'Advanced.' The default settings is 'Limted (16-235)' and changing it to 'Full (0-255) corrected the issue:
Thanks for the info on the Nvidia settings on the Windows system.
One thing I did notice when I compiled the same image sequence created in Lightroom on my MacBook Pro but using my Windows based QuickTime Pro the gamma or the shadows seemed right.
But playing back on my Windows system the QuickTime export that I had created originally on the Mac using the very same images still seemed to be too light in the shadows. I should mention that I was using Windows Media player to play back the exported videos.
Sounds confusing and I apologize but it now leaves me wondering how do I know what is the correct final output? I've used Spyder pro 4 to calibrate both the MacBook Pro and my Windows 8.1 laptop. They both have Nvidia graphics.
If you do a Google search on Quicktime Gamma Shift it pulls up 145,000 matches. Here's the first one:
The above "fix" apparently prevents streaming the file, so this may not be a suitable solution. What video file format are you exporting from QT Pro?
Yeah this is probably the well known quicktime gamma bug. It will rear its
ugly head depending on which codec you use. This is why running the file
through handbrake even after quicktime pro is a good idea as it will fix
that problem too.
Hi again, sorry for the late response. Part of living on the road.
I usually export to H.264. At the risk of sounding like a noob as I could very well be worrying about nothing. I usually preview my Lightroom enhanced images by using Quicktime to export them to H.264 .Mov format just to see how it looks in regards to flicker and whether any adjustment created noticeable image noise particularly with star time lapses. Then if I'm happy I'll use Quicktime to create a lossess "SAVEDAS" .Mov file at the original photographic resolution for editing in Premiere Pro CC.
The link you put up is showing what I'm getting with H.264 codec. I'm a perfectionist and when I see a difference between my Mac and Windows based Laptop in regrads to brightness, colour saturation I freak out a little. As I'm uploading to Youtube and want to make sure what I upload is what I see when my image editing is finished at the Lightroom export stage.
Many thanks for your help, you've pointed me in the right direction. I'm learning something new everyday!
Thanks for taking the time to help me out. Thanks again.
Talking again about Lightroom and ICC profiles, just installed OSX 10.9.2 and nothing has changed: Develop module is still showing bad clipped shadows.
Has anyone news about Lr 5.4 upgrade? Will that relase solve the issue?
Max, just so you are aware this is a User to User forum so the response you get here are for the most part from users like yourself.
Q. Has anyone news about Lr 5.4 upgrade?
A. A release candidate for ACR 8.4 was released about one week ago and since LR releases are issued on or around the same time it is expected soon. Adobe does not usually make anouncements about pending releases and any one here who may know most likely are restricted by NDA.
Q.Will that relase solve the issue?
A. Don't know.
Hi, thanks for the info on Handbrake. I'll definitely check it out.
I should have mentioned that I don't use Lightroom to export my time lapse clips. Use QuickTime Pro to compile and export.
Not that makes any difference I guess. But thanks for replying. 🙂
I am seeing this black clipping issue on LR 5.3 under Mavericks 10.9.2. Prints made 6 months ago are now printing too dark in the blacks. Ironically, my current prints are looking more contrasty and more saturated than my monitor, an about face from normal, where the monitor used to have more contrast and saturation than the prints. What is the current solution? Which software is the most likely culprit? Thanks.
I haven't seen a problem with prints however the issue is likely a bug in Mavericks, not Lightroom. Aperture, Preview, Safari, etc. all have the same problem in color management. Lightroom only has the problem in Develop. Photoshop shows the deep blacks OK, because it doesn't use the operating system color management routines. We can only complain to Apple. They changed something with 10.9.3 that subtly changes the behavior, however it is still showing deep blacks wrong. I submitted a bug report however haven't gotten any feedback. I am hoping Adobe could have more clout but I have no clue whether they reported the nasty bug.