LR Classic not sorting by Capture Time

[linvilt]

I've looked at previous posts relating to this issue but not finding a solution that works.  Images in my library of about 35,000 photos (combination of scans and camera captures) are not sorting by the capture dates. I've made visible other metadata fields to search for patterns or inconsistencies but not finding any.  The images just seem to sort in a random order.  I've tried the "edit capture time" recommendation which has had limited success.  

In some cases I'm indicating, for example, that LR adjust the date to 2003.  When the task is completed, all images in the set have a 2005 date.   So even the corrective methods seem to be generating some new confusing problems.   In september I changed the location of my catalog and image folder.  Aside from the issues mentioned already, I've noticed that a decent number of images have that September date as the "capture date" for files that are much older (and no original date exists in that field).  This is LR Classic 14.1.1 on Mac OS 15.3

[Moved from ‘Bugs’ to ‘Discussions’ by moderator, according to forum rules.]

[johnrellis]

Nearly all problems with sorting by capture date reported here are caused by the photos missing a capture date in their EXIF metadata. This can occur with very old digital cameras, scanned photos, editing software that doesn't preserve metadata, and social-media services that strip all metadata.

"In september I changed the location of my catalog and image folder.  ... a decent number of images have that September date as the "capture date" for files that are much older (and no original date exists in that field)."

When a photo is missing capture date in its metadata, LR behaves very badly, using the photo file's date-modified (as shown in Finder / File Explorer) as the capture date displayed in the Metadata panel, under thumbnails, and used for sorting. When the file is modified for whatever reason (e.g. doing a LR Metadata > Save Metadata To File), LR will soon after start using the new data-modified as the capture date!  This appear to be what's happened with the "September" photos.

The only way to stop LR from doing this is to ensure that each photo has a consistent internal capture date in the catalog:

1. Select all the desired photos.

2. Do Metadata > Edit Capture Time.

3. Immediately click Change All. This does not, repeat DOES NOT, repeat DOES NOT, change the photos to have the same date. Rather it consistently records the date shown for each photo in the Metadata panel and under the thumbnail as the internal capture date in the catalog.

I don't know if this is the procedure you used on the previous photos you mention. If after applying this procedure, you're still having issues, the only way to troubleshoot is to start with a specific photo.

[linvilt]

Thank you Johnrellis! Very helpful and that makes sense.  Just unfortunate.   A few follow up questions:

1. Is there any downside for doing the numbered procedure to my entire library? For example, is there any ill effect when applying this method to image files that don't have an exising capture date problem. That would allow me to avoid having to go through my entire library just searching for probelmatic images. 
2. LR ended up redating some of my images to 2049 dates.  Clearly this is not something I would have done deliberately so I'm struggling to figure out how this occurred.  There's not even a likely typo circumstance that would have caused this and I always review the updated capture date before confirming (with the understanding of your point 3 above).
3. I have backups of my catalog prior to September '24 (the update date mentioned above).  Is there a way to apply aspects of correct metadata from an older catalog (capture date for example) to my current catalog in use (so I keep all my past months edits but recover older correct capture date info (or at least purge the known incorrect capture date data)?
4. When you say "Rather it consistently records the date shown for each photo in the Metadata panel and under the thumbnail as the internal capture date in the catalog." does this mean that the actual EXIF data is still unchanged/empty/inaccurate even as the "intenal" date is modified? How does one distinguish in the metadata panel what information is LR Classic's internal designation vs. the unmodified EXIF data of the original file. At the moment I have my panel showing (the bold items correspond with one another but the other dates are all over the place:

• Metadata Date
• Capture Date/Time
• Date Time Original
• Date Time Digitized
• Date Time
• Date
• Time

[johnrellis · Accepted solution]

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@linvilt, sorry, the forum didn't notify me of your reply.

"Is there any downside for doing the numbered procedure to my entire library? For example, is there any ill effect when applying this method to image files that don't have an exising capture date problem. That would allow me to avoid having to go through my entire library just searching for probelmatic images. "

There isn't any downside -- Edit Capture Time is very reliable.  But make frequent backups of your catalog before you embark on any large-scale changes!

"How does one distinguish in the metadata panel what information is LR Classic's internal designation vs. the unmodified EXIF data of the original file."

The field Date Time Original in the EXIF tagset in the Metadata panel shows the original capture date as recorded (or not) by the camera. It will be blank if that field isn't in the original photo:

There's no way to search for those with built-in LR features. But you could use the Any Filter plugin:

[johnrellis]

"I have backups of my catalog prior to September '24 (the update date mentioned above).  Is there a way to apply aspects of correct metadata from an older catalog (capture date for example) to my current catalog in use (so I keep all my past months edits but recover older correct capture date info (or at least purge the known incorrect capture date data)?"

It's possible but quite involved and would likely take hours to get correct, even if you're experienced with all the tools involved.  An outline (I'm sure I've probably missed some important details):

0. Backup your catalogs and photos!

1. Use the Any Filter plugin's Sort command to export CSV files containing the file names and the LR capture dates from the backup catalog and the current catalog.

2. Use Excel or Google Sheets to join the two CSV files by file name, looking for files that have differing dates.

3. Generate a Windows command script or Mac shell script from the CSV in step 2 that uses the "exiftool" utility to assign the correct dates to the files' EXIF:DateTimeOriginal fields. 

4. Select all the photos in Library and do Metadata > Save Metadata To File, recording their current catalog metadata.

5. Run the script from step 3.

6. Select all the photos and do Metadata > Read Metadata From File.

[linvilt]

Thanks @johnrellis ! Second solution sounds a bit outside of my risk tolerance and I don't want to make a bad problem worse.  But I appreciate you sharing the steps and explaining the underlying cause.  I'll move forward with the Edit Capture Time approach and hopefully avoid the issue down the line.  

[linvilt]

I can't tell if this is related to the my post question or a different matter (perhaps database filename confusion).  Older images like the one on its side suddenly show up mixed in with more recent imports/shoots.  In the metadata that "Capture Time" and "Date Time" are what I would expect for this image 3/31/19 etc.   However "Capture Date/Time and other fields reflect a much more recent date.  When I've gone into Edit Capture Time for this one image and selected "Change to file's creation date" I was expecting it to match the correct date/time as mentioned above (3/31/19).  It did not. 

[KR Seals]

When I have had this problem, it was solved by resetting the Lightroom Classic Preferences.