LR doesn't set White Balance temperature correctly on import

[sydneylow]

When I import a Canon RAW file with a manual white balance e.g. 5300K

Lightroom sets it as "As Shot 4650K"

Why does it do that, and why doesn't it set it to 5300K as specified in the image's EXIF data?

Attached is image showing the issue:"

- CR2 file imported into Canon DPP correctly with White Balance setting as per EXIF in the image file

- EXIF data showing manual white balance

- LR imports this and sets WB to 4650K

- EXIFTool app extracts the following info from the file (not shown):

White Balance                   : Manual Temperature (Kelvin)

Color Temperature            : 5300

[ds art]

that's right, so as you can see, on your camera there is just one value, and in LR the white balance is split in two.

by import the value of your white balance from the camera it will be recalculated to this of adobe.

[sydneylow]

Do you have a reference for that statement?

What's the formula that equates 5300Kelvin to 4650K, +5 Tint?

[ds art]

I give you a very short explication, just to sad there 's nothing wrong with lightroom or your camera.

they works on a different range of calculation.
you can look at the end of this thread, than you would understand the working of white balance (camera vs Lightroom)

Why is Color Temp not using standard black body theory in lightroom?

[sydneylow]

I've read that thread and there's nothing in it to explain why a RAW image with a manual WB settting in K is changed by LR when it is imported.

Did I miss something?

[sandy_mc]

The short answer is that white balance as measured in K and tint units depends on the color profile associated with an image. While Canon's cameras and Canon's DPP use the same profile, Adobe's software doesn't. So you will see differences in the K temperature displayed.

[ssprengel]

The important thing is whether neutrals are still neutral. 

The WB LR is showing is computed using a color-matrix (a set of color numbers split out by red, green, blue) specified by the camera in the raw file, not the text "5300", along with the selected camera profile in the camera calibration section in LR.

[sydneylow]

In the Adobe LR manual:

As Shot uses the camera’s white balance settings... Auto calculates the white balance based on the image data.

I appreciate all of these explanations but as the manual explains, "as shot" means as the photographer/camera shot it, not the software's interpretation, which is the Auto setting.

If I set a specific WB temp, the important thing is not neutrality. I'm after a controlled effect. I'm not after LR to correct this or interpret this for me if I choose the "As Shot" setting.

I'm also dubious about the explanation that the Temp slider is interpreted differently based on a Picture Style. In my camera, the Picture Styles is not coupled to the WB setting. I can select e.g. Standard, Landscape, Faithful, Portrait, Neutral etc, and independently select a WB for the scene. Changing Picture Styles doesn't affect the manually selected WB. I could imagine that if I chose Auto WB, then that may change, but certainly not if I have selected a specific color temp for the WB.

In LR, after the image has been imported, selected diferent Profiles in the Camera Calibration panel doesn't change the WB Temp or Tint sliders.

If I ask the question another way, "How do I get LR to import a RAW image and set the WB Temp at a specific K setting?"

If this isn't possible, then I'll just apply a preset, but it sure looks like a bug in the As Shot setting to me as LR doesn't do what the manual says.

[DdeGannes]

Each and every RAW processing application have their own pro priority process and camera profile for interpreting the raw data. Even when you include a greyscale target in the image capture and use the white balance picker to adjust the neutral WB there will be a variance in the other colors in the target red green blue patches.

Do the testing for yourself. There is no absolute way to have true matching colors from different raw processing applications.

See this link for some caparisons a few years back.

TestFile | Flickr

[sydneylow]

I just want to be clear again in my question.

I'm not after matching or any other colour optimisation to targets etc.

All I want to do is import a RAW image and have LR do that and respect a WB Temp setting in Kelvin.

I would expect LR to do that if the option is "As Shot"

If anyone can help me do that it would be great.

[DdeGannes]

I have been shooting raw since 2004 and use many different raw conversion application and as far as I am aware the only application that will match your in camera settings including the WB setting is the software supplied by your camera manufacturer.

I shoot only raw capture and I have my camera WB setting set to Auto. This can easily be adjusted in the software application you are using in pp. If not then you will have to be changing the WB continually during shooting.

[sydneylow]

Then what's the point of the "As Shot" setting

versus "Auto" in the LR WB drop down if LR is going to do it's own adjustment.

[DdeGannes]

Quote "Then what's the point of the "As Shot" setting

versus "Auto" in the LR WB drop down if LR is going to do it's own adjustment."

Even when you choose Auto, Lightroom will show "as shot" the camera chooses the WB "Auto".

[DdeGannes]

If you have chosen to use Adobe Lightroom /Adobe Camera Raw software application to process your RAW captures from your camera then you a choosing a process designed by Adobe Engineers who are providing you with a "different recipe" to process the "raw data" captured by your camera sensor. This profile is named "Adobe Standard" and is specific to your camera model, they may also provide you with some additional profiles like "Camera faithful" and Camera Portrait" etc will attempts to emulate the rendition provided by your camera firmware and software application.

The processes that your camera firmware and software application uses are proprietary and cannot be used by Adobe.

To wit if you have decided to use Lightroom / Adobe Camera Raw , as you raw processing software application it would be best to not even compare with your camera software or camera screen capture but bo become proficient with the tools available in the Adobe application.

There is no right or wrong, just different "Chef's" interpretations of the raw data, choose the application that meets your taste.

[sydneylow]

I'm talking about the Auto setting in LR.

[DdeGannes]

Quote "I'm talking about the Auto setting in LR."

Those are the settings you can choose after you have imported into Lightroom. Lightroom will always show "As Shot" at import, then you can choose the other alternatives in Lightroom.

That is why I an saying that it is mute making a selecting in camera as, Lightroom does not read the in camera settings and only uses the raw data, which can easily be changed in pp.

[Just Shoot Me]

sydneylow wrote:

I'm talking about the Auto setting in LR.

As Shot is what the camera shot the image as.

Auto is what LR thinks it should be.

Other are self explanatory.

Custom is what YOU set the Temp & Tint to manually by moving the sliders.

Do all images shot at that 5300K come into LR with the same exact Temp & Tint setting?

[sydneylow]

So we're back to the original question which is why As Shot isn't being imported correctly by LR

[Sean McCormack]

People have repeatedly pointed out that Lightroom uses a different scale to Canon for measuring the temperature. The Kelvin value in camera is mapped to Lightroom's equivalent temperature and tint. It's not changing the colour, so it's still the same colour 'As Shot'.

[sydneylow]

Sean, let me ask the question differently then:

- I want to have my images rendered at a LR Temp setting e.g. 5300K, Tint 0

- I'm happy to set my camera settings to a setting to achieve this outcome in LR

- I don't want to have to apply an import preset when I import for reasons that aren't important for this discussion

- Is this possible with LR under any of the WB settings? If so, what should the camera setting be?

[Just Shoot Me]

Is there a Tint option in the camera?

If there isn't then LR is interpreting the 5300K as the value you are seeing.

You still haven't answered the simple question I asked.

Do all the images shot at that 5300K have the same Temp and Tint values in LR?

Please answer that question.

I think many people have answered your question but you refuse to understand it.

[sydneylow]

Yes. There is a tint option. It's set to 0

No. the images at 5300k are imported at different temps.

Thats why I want to fix this problem.

[sydneylow]

This looks similar (but not identical) to this issue:

Re: "As shot" vs white balances in Lightroom: big differences

"The OP is seeing WB setting differences between the Adobe supplied 'Adobe Standard' and 'Camera Standard' camera profiles for the Nikon D3100. They should have been created with the same camera and procedure, which would result in both having the same WB settings for 'As Shot.'"

Is there a possibility that the settings for the relatively new Canon 1DX Mk II settings in the LR update this year has an issue?

[sandy_mc]

a) "As shot" means "neutral color as shot", not Kevin/tint combination as shot.

b) The most probable reason for the variation in color temps in LR even when setting the camera to 5300K is that either other camera setting are different, leading to the in-camera color profile being different, or different color profiles are being applied in LR.

What you see as a color temperature in LR is 5300K translated to a neutral color via the in-camera profile, then the neutral color being translated via LR's camera profile to the temperature that LR displays.

[sydneylow]

1. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by color profiles.

2. If that's the explanation of "As Shot", what does "Auto" mean?