Using Wide Gamut (Dell u2711) With Lightroom

[grandpahenry]

I have just completed an upgrade of my computer system to include 2 Dell U2711 27" monitors.  I am using LR 3.5.  My system is running with Windows 7 64 bit and a ATI Firepro graphics card running the displays. 

Before purchasing these, and listening to the chatter on various forums I was led to belive that I was going to get garish coloration on all applications except Adobe LR and CS5.  This does not seem to be the case.  LR and CS5 are fine and the other applications IE and Windows Office seem to be OK as well.

These displays are calibrated at the factory.

Does anyone have any experience with these and can share any "gotchas" with me.

Henry

[grandpahenry]

This is very interesting. I think that I am reading that I don’t have to do a separate calibration to the “custom” preset and just rely on using the Adobe 1998 profile using the “Adobe RGB” preset.

Am I going to have a good workflow here? I normally shoot in the RAW, would use the advice above, and print on my Epson 3880 using Epson Ink, Epson Paper, and the correct Epson ICC profile for the paper I am using.

Have I got this right?

[Jao vdL]

This is very interesting.  I think that I am reading that I don’t have to do a separate calibration to the “custom” preset and just rely on using the Adobe 1998 profile using the “Adobe RGB” preset.

Noooo! You do not want to do that especially if you own a calibrator. Calibrate the display in standard or custom using the hardware calibrator and then don't touch any settings on the display anymore except when you recalibrate. Even if you set it to a aRGB or sRGB mode (which is generally not something you want to do as it limits your gamut), you should recalibrate. Their calibration procedures are nowhere near as good as just using your own calibrator. For your browser you should dump IE (which you should anyway) and just use Firefox in the gfx.color_management.mode 1 setting mode where it color manages everything except flash content. If you use it in normal mode (2) untagged images, which constitute the majority of the internet, will look oversaturated, exactly like in IE (i.e. completely wrong). You really do not want to be swapping display settings and monitor profiles all the time as it is extraordinarily likely you will do it wrong or that the system will ignore what you ask it (very common!) and you end up with overcorrected images. Just use color managed apps and you're fine.

[Todd Shaner]

Agreed! After reading the epic novel at the Whirpool link on the Dell u2711 the best solution is to calibrate each preset mode and create separate monitor profiles for each one. REASON: The Adobe RGB and sRGB preset modes are Dell factory calibrated at a Luminance of about 200 cd/m2! Photo editing applications require a luminance between 100 and 140 cd/m2 for print matching. When you lower the Brightness and/or Contrast controls to obtain a 100 to 140 cd/m2 luminance, the factory calibration is hosed and no longer accurate.

Go ahead and create custom profiles using your Spyder for the three (3) preset modes – Standard, Custom Color, and sRGB. Just remember that you will have to manually reassign the appropriate profile when changing the display's preset mode, so give them those unique names. You can use the Windows Color Management application for this purpose, by pinning a shortcut to your taskbar. The Standard or Custom Color preset mode is what you want to use for Lightroom, Photoshop, and any other color managed applications. This leaves the sRGB as best for use with non-color manged apps. I don't see any need for the Adobe RGB mode, except perhaps at the factory 200 cd/m2 luminance level for some "special" purpose.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/68252-color-management-shortcut-create.html

The Dell internal LUT factory calibrations will not be over-written. They are only accessible using Dell factory software and/or hardware. This is unfortunate since the Adobe RGB and sRGB factory calibrated modes are useless for photo editing due to the 200 cd/m2 luminance level used.

[grandpahenry]

The more I read the more confused I get. Let me state my current understanding and see if we are all in agreement:

1. Set the preset to “custom” and calibrate with the Spyder.

2. Set the system to load the Spyder created profile upon startup as the default with the monitor preset set to “custom”.

3. Process photos using applications that are color aware such as LR and CS5 using the newly created profile.

4. When processing non-color aware applications deselect the Spyder created profile and use the sRGB monitor preset with no profile assigned as is now. I may not have to do this at all if the non-color aware applications are readable. In these non-color aware applications color is not critical and over time many applications will become color aware anyway.

I did lower the brightness/contrast from the factory 50/50 to 40/40 only because the monitor was so bright that it hurt my eyes.

Will the Spyder calibration override this 40/40 setting?

[Todd Shaner]

1. Yes

2. You shouldn't have to do anything. Your Spyder software creates and assigns the new monitor profile for you after the calibration is completed

3. Yes and in the Custom preset mode. This is why I suggested naming the profiles when prompted to "save" them after the calibration process. Otherwise the Spyder software will just use a default name with something like the date.

4. At the link I posted it appears some say you should use the u2711.icm monitor profile, and others say use the Windows generic sRGB profile. Windows Color Management utility makes it easy to switch profiles so I would try all three options and see what it looks like in non-color managed apps (i.e. none, u2711.icm, sRGB.icc).

"Will the Spyder calibration override this 40/40 setting?"

To get the best calibration you need to use the "Advanced" mode of your Spyder software, which allows you to measure and adjust your display's 1) Contrast control 2) Brightness control and 3) RGB Color controls. The objective is to setup your display "natively" using its own controls and the Spyder measuring device as close as possible to 100 to 140 cd/m2 Luminance, 6500K Color Temperature and 2.2 Gamma. You want to do this BEFORE your software starts the calibration routine, which is what the "Advanced" mode will do. It should prompt you to set 1) Contrast control 2) Brightness control and 3) RGB Colors as three separate steps using the calibrator puck on-screen.

You will need to adjust your display’s Brightness control to 30 or less to reach a 120cd/m2 Luminance. If you have to set it very low (0 to 10) you may get a better calibration using a 140 cd/m2 Luminance level.

[grandpahenry]

I took a shot at calibrating both monitors using the "custom" preset.   The ATI Catalyst Control initially got in the way so I removed it.  There are a couple of check boxes in the advanced mode I did not know about either. The calibrations look fine but I will do both of them again.  I never got to 120 but I think when I check the right boxes for the next run it will work out.

Even with a slightly imperfect calibration I printed a couple of phots in LR.  When I used "managed by printer", my 3880, using Epson Ink and Paper gave me as close to perfect as I ever had. 

What I don't understand is why when I selected managed by LR I got prints with a redish cast to them, both perceptual and relative.

Any ideas?.

[Todd Shaner]

Sounds like "double-profiling." When you select "managed by Lightroom" you also need to "turn off" color management in the Epson 3880 printer driver.

These links may help:

http://www.lightroomforums.net/showthread.php?8978-Epson-Stylus-Pro-3880-and-the-Print-module

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/index.html

[grandpahenry]

You are absolutely right. In my zeal to test my calibrations I forgot to change the settings in the 3880 device driver when making the comparison.

The interesting thing is that both prints are exactly the same and they manage the screens as good as my eyes can perceive it. For years we have been encouraged to manage prints out of either LR or CS. Looks to me like Epson has it really right with the 3880. Is there a file with most of all the colors on it so I can download it, see it on my display screens, and print to compare how really good the match is.

Sorry, my mistake

[Jao vdL]

You're probably simply selecting the wrong profile in Lightroom when

printing managed by printer.

[grandpahenry]

See last post, just forgot to turn it off in the printer driver. I am using the Epson ICC profiles, Epson paper, and Epson ink.

[Jao vdL]

Double profiling will do that indeed. The one problem with using "managed

by printer" is not color accuracy but possible posterization in subtle

color blends. They are easy to generate in pictures with lots of sky such

as sunsets and such. The reason for the posterization is that in "managed

by printer" LR sends the data in 8-bit prophotoRGB. The driver then

converts to the printer profile for you. If you let LR manage, it directly

converts from the internal 16-bit linear prophotoRGB space to the printer

profile. This avoids a lot of possible problems with bit accuracy.

Alternatively, if your printer supports it, you can enable the 16-bit

printing option, which similarly avoids the posterization issue. You don't

need to do both.

There are many nice testfiles for testing your printer color. One good one

is found on this page: http://www.inkjetart.com/custom/ (look for the

"download test image" link)

[Todd Shaner]

Is there a file with most of all the colors on it so I can download it, see it on my display screens, and print to compare how really good the match is.

If you are really interested in more accurate color matching, I would start with the ColorChecker Passport. REASON: LR's Adobe Standard profile is at best a compromise, and the Camera profiles are an attempt at "recreating" the camera manufacturers profiles. Every camera's sensor varies slightly from the "target" spectral response, due to wafer process variations, etc. By using something like the ColorChecker Passport, you are creating a "calibrated profile for your specific camera(s). You can also use it for critical shoots to insure very accurate color matching, but that is normally not necessary once you have established profiles for normal lighting situations (Sunny, Cloudy, Tungsten).

You can visually compare both the color accuracy on your display and print images to the ColorChecker Passport target to better determine your color matching accuracy. There are more expensive devices such as the Color Munki Photo for calibrating your printer, but these don't replace the ColorChecker Passport for insuring best color accuracy of the source (i.e. camera) image file.

[grandpahenry]

Thank you for your reply,

I have calibrated my monitors using the custom preset with the Spyder 3 Elite and got good results.  I am planning to redo using the "advanced" mode because I was not able to change the brightness required to achieve the desired value of 120 luminence.  Gamma was just a shade over 2.2.  Brightness and White Point were right on.   The only thing that that I did not understand was the measurement Data Color calls Phosphors (CIE xy). 

I downloaded the image suggested  by "jao vdl" and printed it using LR control on Epson Premium Luster using the "glossy" setting.  The printed image came out almost perfect.  There is a ittle problem with the strawberries and the red telephones.  Not terribly objectionable just a shade off to my naked eye.  I also printed a couple of photos and they seem to match almost perfectly.  I am not sure that "perfect" is possible but I am satisfied.

I did read an item on the Internet by a fellow who calibrated U2711s with Spyder 3 Elite.  Unfortunately, I cannot locate again but remember that this person suggested that I before I begin the calibration process I set the contrast to 50 (factory), brightness to 30, and the RGB sliders to 88 each.

Do you have any thoughts regarding the settings suggested before calibrating.

[Todd Shaner]

I did read an item on the Internet by a fellow who calibrated U2711s with Spyder 3 Elite. Unfortunately, I cannot locate again but remember that this person suggested that I before I begin the calibration process I set the contrast to 50 (factory), brightness to 30, and the RGB sliders to 88 each.

If you haven't done so already I suggest downloading and reading the Spyder 3 Elite user guide:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/downloads/manuals/Spyder3Elite_User_Guide.pdf

Use 120-140 cd/m2 Luminace,  2.2 Gamma and 6500K white point. I've never used the Spyder 3 Elite software, only the i1 Dsiplay 2 with its EyeOne Match 3 software. You want to select the calibration mode that allow you to assign and "manually set" the specific Luminace level (120-140cd/2) and 6500K white point using the displays Brightness, Contrast and RGB color controls to achieve the desired values. Suggest starting with Contrast at 50 and then use the Brightness control to set the Luminace to 120-140cd/m2.

To be honest the Spyder 3 Elite User Guide at the above link doesn't explian "HOW" to make these adjustments, so I hope the software does that for you (i.e. "click NEXT to adjust your Brightness control," etc.). Perhaps one of the other forum members with experiece using the "Advanced" modes of the Spyder 3 Elitie software can provide some insight?

[Jao vdL]

If you use the standard calibration mode, the Spyder 3 software will

measure your room ambient light intensity and suggest a screen brightness

based on that. This is actually not a bad idea as many rooms are so

brightly lit that you might get the opposite problem (too light prints) if

you calibrate to 100-120 cd/m2. 100-120 is good for fairly dark rooms. It

is better to edit in darker rooms as you'll be able to discern the shadows

much better but often this is not really possible. It should then go

through an iteration in which it measures the brightness and asks you to

increase or decrease the brightness to fall within a certain range. On

displays where you can set the brightness from computer controls (laptop

screens for example), it will do it all for you without any user

intervention. The only difference in advanced mode is that you can tell it

what brightness to calibrate too. The help inside the software explains all

this in detail.

[TheDigitalDog]

Jao vdL wrote:

If you use the standard calibration mode, the Spyder 3 software will

measure your room ambient light intensity and suggest a screen brightness

based on that. This is actually not a bad idea as many rooms are so

brightly lit that you might get the opposite problem (too light prints) if

you calibrate to 100-120 cd/m2. 100-120 is good for fairly dark rooms.

I’ve never seen a product do an especially good job here, certainly when one is using a viewing booth or system to view a print. Its probably a good starting point but every product I’ve ever used, one has to season to taste (test various settings for cd/m2 as well as white point to produce a visual match). For the OP, this might help:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml

The ‘correct’ values are those that produce a visual match. Without some idea of how prints next to the display will be viewed, any suggestions for WP or backlight luminance are not real useful. YMMV.

Newer, out of the box LCD’s have a tough time natively hitting low cd/m2 values (often below 140-150cd/m2). Of course, one can and should adjust the print illuminant intensity if necessary.