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bcdavis1975
Known Participant
May 1, 2011
Open for Voting

P: Allow Catalog to be stored on a networked drive.

  • May 1, 2011
  • 559 replies
  • 13759 views

I'd love to make LR more multi-computer friendly. I have no doubt that there's probably database architecture issues and a host of other barriers... But I have to believe that the need for either multi-user or at at lease multi-computer use is widely desired. And yes, I know you can do the catalog import export thing but I find this less than ideal.

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    johnrellis
    johnrellis
    Legend
    February 25, 2022

    LR does indeed use SQL transactions, and it uses an application-level lock file to prevent multiple instances of LR from accessing the catalog concurrently.

     

    The underlying issue, according to SQLite, is that some network file systems do not correctly implement POSIX locking or Windows locking, which SQLite relies on to implement concurrent database access:

    https://www.sqlite.org/lockingv3.html#how_to_corrupt 

     

    Bugs in third-party network file systems are outside the control of SQLite to fix.  Since LR performs concurrent accesses to the SQLite database, its use of SQLite requires correct locking behavior on the part of the network file systems.  

     

     

     

     

    M
    MadMac89
    Participating Frequently
    February 23, 2022

    I've run into the dreaded "Lightroom Catalogs can not be opened on network volumes, removable storage, or read only volumes." problem, and the lack of documentation or searchable information is rediculous. Someone in another forum - kindly I might add - noted that reading catalogs from a network volume was not allowed.


    The question then is: For what good reason?


    Protecting me from performance problems is not a good reason - I'm using 10G - and I'm providing more data protection and availability than well, most anyone.  The Synology is dual ported with 10G optical to the 10G switch, which itself is connected directlt to the Mac. That switch uplinks to the rest of the network.  There is not a network performance problem.

    My workflow has always been to create isolated catalogs for each "major group" of photos, because in the early years because of how often the catalog could/would get trashed - it didn't make sense for a catalog DB to support multiple TB of photos and raws. Ergo - my workflow uses many catalogs to limit the blast radius of a failure of software. 

    Some years ago Apple stopped serving anything resembling a business systems market - and focused on consumer or specific prosumer markets - and as such their data protection is much worse than it was, to the point there are no local data protection solutions for Apple.  Neither is APFS ready for even enclosure based solutions (hard lesson there).  So, everything I have is in some form of RAID in at least two physically separate locations.  Swapped my pegasus arrays for Synology some time ago, and put my User Homes in an external enclosure.

    Having a very timely need to do some extensive photos touch up - I unload last months photos into the default catalog, select the 500 pairs I need to work with, write them as a catalog to the network volume, and then try to open that catalog. From the exact location where the catalog exists. I can see the files, I can open the files, and clearly - I can write the files from LR.

    So - why doesn't LR Classic allow me to read a catalog from an external volume? I need to know - so I can decide what to do about my workflow and the 10 years of work I have invested in nearly 1000 separate catalogs.

    Appreciate everyone's time and thought in advance. Purpose here is discussion - the why.
    I'm interested in everyone's opinions. Professionals, part timers like me, or even LR staffers...

    dj_paige
    dj_paige
    Legend
    February 23, 2022

    For what good reason? This has been discussed many times, there are technical reasons involving the SQLite data base, as well as user-related reasons (can't allow two users into a database at one time).

      M
      MadMac89
      Participating Frequently
      February 23, 2022

      Aprpeciate the response.

      So, protecting the datafile from being trashed by a lack of appropriate locking. Maybe better said as - SQLite always expected to be local to an application, presumption is the application mediates with single threaded access.  Fair enough.

       

      If it has been well discussed, it would also be fair to say that these discussions should be exposed to search engines, because you cannot get from any form of "lightroom cannot open catalog on external volume" to even the whiff of what you note.

      I can see how customers will abuse their licensing by running multiple people against the same file, but for someone who is not abusing the license or intent... seems quite drastic.

      Again - @dj_paige thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

      F
      FeedbackCommunityMember
      Inspiring
      July 16, 2020


      When will Adobe, make Lightroom available for multi-users? Now that my team work remotely (Covid-19 rules) they cannot access our extensive photo library catalogue through lightroom. Is there a work around for this? Everyone needs to be able to access the photos and the catalog for work.  We use Lightroom Classic.
      G
      gadgetgeek2000
      Known Participant
      July 13, 2020
      I've been using OneDrive to keep my catalog and previews in sync between computers. The issue I find is that opening Lightroom causes some high CPU activity for OneDrive as it tries to sync files that are in use. I think that is a OneDrive issue. After I exit there is again high CPU as it picks through my 6GB Lightroom catalog looking for the changed bits and added preview files. 

      Recent upgrades to OneDrive sync engine will only send the changed bits. Before this change, it was sending the entire 6GB file back up to the cloud every time I opened Lightroom.

      So far it works pretty well. Every once in a while OneDrive gets confused and makes a second copy of the Lightroom database, as it thinks the cloud version and the local version have both changed. That would happen if I edited from a different computer and my laptop, which I am not doing. Right now, only editing on my laptop and using OneDrive to keep a backup of my critical files. When this happens I just delete the older catalog file, and rename the copy back to the original name.
      johnrellis
      johnrellis
      Legend
      June 18, 2020
      "or even a mention from Adobe Dev's in the 9 years since it's been requested."

      Adobe engineer Dan Tull did give a fair amount of technical insight behind the SQLite issue early on in this topic, starting here (you have to read through many messages in the the thread):
      https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/multi_user_multi_computer?topic-reply-list[se...

      But I agree that there hasn't been any substantive feedback here from Adobe since then.


      T
      thebundok
      Participant
      June 18, 2020
      I'm dismayed, but honestly not surprised, that this hasn't had any traction or even a mention from Adobe Dev's in the 9 years since it's been requested.

      The excuse I've always heard from the beginning was that this isn't/wasn't currently possible because Lightroom is built on top of SQLite. While I don't know if that's still the case, it was implied that it would require much more than a simple feature update and possibly a complete rebuild from the ground up.

      I thought that the new Lightroom (not Classic) was going to be a start in that direction, but honestly I'm not enthusiastic about a library existing solely in the cloud or having to "sync" libraries and catalogues across different computers via the cloud.

      What I want, and I think many people want, is a solution that has now existed in the Video Editing space for years at this point. Including Adobe's own Premiere Pro!

      I would like the ability to host a catalogue and library of images (or libraries and catalogues) on a central, networked location (Server, NAS etc.) and a multi-user workflow that allows for multiple editors to be in the same catalogue and even working on the same images via Virtual Copies/Versions or image level locking.

      The fact that this is the second highest "Me Too" requested Idea (1st highest if you note that the #1 is filed as "Not Planned") should give some indication to Adobe that "this is what we want above all else! We want this more than we want support for Centered Crop Overlay and ISO Adaptive Presets! We want this more than we want support for new cameras and lenses! We want this more than we want improvements to panorama editing and library filtering!"

      The least Adobe could do would be to give some indication that it's Under Consideration, Planned or even Not Planned. Leaving such a popular request ambiguous is mean-spirited and disingenuous. Given the number of users who have sworn up and down (on this forum and others) that they would jump ship to the first editing platform to implement shared, network access; this feels more like a crowd-control measure. "If we tell you it's planned, we actually have to follow through! If we say it's not planned, we'll lose you all! So we're just going to leave it unanswered in the hopes that we'll be able to string you along as long as we can until we absolutely have to implement this feature."

      And no, I'm not surprised that there hasn't been another company to implement this yet but I don't see it as a result of lack of interest. Adobe has been, and for a very long time will be, a market leader in this area. Many companies look to Adobe to see what to implement and what not to. The fact that Adobe is on top of the market further cements the idea that they won't implement this until they absolutely have to.

      I would suggest that everyone who wants this feature push it to all the Capture One, Luminar, ON1, DxO etc. forums, community boards and feature request platforms that they can. Maybe the scent of a competitor working on this will be the spark that lights a fire under Adobe's butt.

      One can only hope.


      Rikk Flohr_Photography
      Community Manager
      Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
      February 5, 2020
      Phil, this is already available to you via this very forum. You can search any product on this forum by Idea and Not-planned using the pull downs at the top of each of the category pages. 

      Here is an example from Lightroom Classic.  https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/categories/photoshop_family_photoshop_lightroom?topic-list[settings][status]=rejected&topic-list[settings][type]=idea

      Realize that because an Idea is marked as Not-planned, that does not mean it cannot possibly ever be considered. Changes in customer needs, software architectures and many other factors could cause a resurrection of any idea. 

      Notice that of the 3922 feature requests made here only 26 are marked as Not-planned. 
      Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
      PhilBurton
      PhilBurton
      Inspiring
      February 5, 2020
      I wish that Adobe would publish a list of "Feature requests we don't intend to implement" or some such. Instead they leave us hanging.  Too bad Lightroom is the 900 pound gorilla in this market.
      J
      j_aspinall
      Participating Frequently
      February 2, 2020
      NINE years on, we're still waiting for Adobe to allow us to use lrcat files over a LAN on a NAS box.  Beyond ridiculous!
      L
      Lumigraphics
      Legend
      December 13, 2019
      You should be using a true client-server package. Lightroom isn't designed for multiple users.
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