P: Better keyword management

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2011 Mar 31, 2011

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How about some better support for keyword management. It's very basic now. I would like to do the following tasks:- Delete multiple keywords at once. Not all plugins do handle hierarchy keywords well and add all the keywords to the root level. It's a tedious task to delete them one by one.- Search for duplicates.- Merge keywords. With lots of tricks, it can be done, but it's so inefficient.- Import keywords from within any level in the keyword hierarchy. Now you can only import keywords to the root level.- And for now last but most important: Real external editing of the keyword list. Moving keywords around and doing real heavy reorganization is difficult in LR. I would like to have an editing option like exporting and when reimported all changes are reflected in LR.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 04, 2018 Jun 04, 2018

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So, eight years later I'm searching yet again for a better way to merge keywords and came across my post from 2010. https://forums.adobe.com/message/10423855#10423855 Still no good way to merge them that I can find, just one at a time selecting, adding keywords to the images of the same key and combining them in a terribly slow and laborious way only to have them all duplicated again the next time I import images from a keywording service. Wow, Aperture was capable of this in 2006 but Lightroom still can't do it in 2018. I suppose it's safe to assume the LR will never be able to do this and keywording will remain a huge spaghetti bowl.

To whom replied that didn't port over to this thread: Yes, my comparison to Aperture was unjust, outside of that one, single feature LR pretty much beat it in every other aspect. To fix the above once and for all I'm abandoning the hierarchy and will just have a super long list of words.

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Participant ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Same here, 6 year old comments on this threat.  Funny that on Twitter @m_mulligan says they really look here and take things into consideration, so I'm guess this just is never going to happen, which will make it really hard for me to clean up keywords without spending a TON of time on it.

I'll also add to the original idea that some way to deal with a keyword that's a person or not, and how to even tell in the current keyword editor without double clicking on each one.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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"and how to even tell in the current keyword editor without double clicking on each one."

There's a hidden feature -- click here in the Keyword List panel:



then select People to filter by just those keywords marked as Person keywords:



Are there other things you want to do with Person keywords?

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Participant ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Ah, didn't know that.

I guess in terms of people vs not-people, I have a bunch of photos tagged with "John Doe" from before LR had people keywords, and when looking at the main list I see 2 different occurrences of John Doe in the keyword list, but I can't put them at the same level.  IE:

People -> Friends -> John Doe (general tag)
People -> John Doe (people tag)

I don't seem to be able to put them both at the same level (ie: under friends), and even if I could when looking at the full list I'd just see two John Doe keywords and I don't know which to drag the images into (it seems odd to drag a photo into a people keyword as you still need to go in and tag them.
Looking at my own library I see:
Names -> Friends -> John Doe
John Doe
Johnn Doe
(I typo'd the name at some point)
For me, trying to fix a decade of bad keywording practices, there doesn't seem to be a quick way to see which of those three is a tag and which is a person, no way to put them all on the same level (under friends) and no way to rename the typo'd one or merge them together.
I know there *are* ways to do this, but a proper pop-out editor would make this *much* easier to deal with. 

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LEGEND ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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"a proper pop-out editor would make this *much* easier to deal with"

Very much agreed.  Even an updated Metadata > Export Keywords command that included all the attributes of a keyword would be a big help, as would trivial enhancements to the plugin API to allow plugins to solve these issues:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/sdk_small_enhancement_to_lrkeyword_to_relieve...

But as you've observed, Adobe clearly doesn't think better keywording deserves any effort at all.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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" know there *are* ways to do this"

If you want tips on these things, just let us know.

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Participant ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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Sure, if there are work arounds that'd be awesome. 

In terms of  knowing there are ways to do this, for example to merge person/normal tags, I assume I can just add the person keyword to the ones with a normal tag and then remove the normal tag, but tagging all the photos with a face can be a pain in the ass (especially if you're trying to tag an entire shoot where faces might not be visible, and having to go and tag the back of a head or something).  Or I guess just naming the person tag as "John Doe (person)"...

Anyway, help appreciated 🙂

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LEGEND ,
Jul 09, 2018 Jul 09, 2018

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As I think you've learned, to merge keyword A into keyword B:

1. In the Keyword List panel hover the mouse over keyword A and then click the arrow on the right that appears.  That will filter all photos assigned A.

2. Select all those photos and drag keyword B onto one of them, to assign B to all of them.

3. Delete keyword A.

If you want to merge a non-person keyword with a person keyword, make sure you merge into the person keyword, otherwise you'll lose all the face tagging of the person keyword.  

There's no good way to merge two person keywords and retain the face tagging of the source (A) keyword, though.  The photos will get keyword B, but the face tagging of keyword A will be lost.

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Contributor ,
Jul 10, 2018 Jul 10, 2018

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If I could expand on John's comment.....In John's step 1, you will only see images that are not buried in collapsed stacks so step 2 may leave some images still with KW A and not KW B.  There are two solutions to this wrinkle.

a)  Expand all stacks in your entire catalog before you do step 1.  (Could be quite time consuming)

b)  Create a smart collection with a name something like "all photos".  The only rule for the smart collection is Rating >= 0 stars which is every image there is  Now, after you do John's step 1 (which changes the source to the All Photographs in the Catalog panel), Close the lock on the filter bar (lock icon at right end of filter bar), and then click on the smart collection you just created.  This will put all images with KW A in the grid no mater stack position.

Dan

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Participant ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

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I think I get what you're saying, I'll play with that tonight.  I still maintain that letting the user have both a John Doe (non-person) and a John Doe (person) keyword would be nice for some use cases, and a visual differentiation in the keyword list (and the entry box as well) would be a nice addition.
But I appreciate the tips, I'll have a go with that to play around tonight when I'm home.

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LEGEND ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

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"letting the user have both a John Doe (non-person) and a John Doe (person) keyword would be nice"

You can have two John Doe keywords with different containing keywords in the keyword hierarchy. Is there something about the current LR behavior that's making that difficult for your workflow?

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LEGEND ,
Jul 11, 2018 Jul 11, 2018

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"a visual differentiation in the keyword list (and the entry box as well) would be a nice addition."

I agree.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 15, 2018 Aug 15, 2018

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I see lens profiles on disk under the LR resources folder that could be for each of those two lenses:


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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 16, 2018 Aug 16, 2018

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Check what kind of image you have selected. Most lens profiles are for raw files only, so when you select a jpeg or tiff, they won't show.
-- Johan W. Elzenga

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LEGEND ,
Sep 02, 2019 Sep 02, 2019

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LEGEND ,
Nov 13, 2019 Nov 13, 2019

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Hello,
I love Lightroom but it really needs a keyword panel/editor makeover. Photo Mechanic has a really nice keyword editor layout with columns where you can quickly and easily create, cut, paste, organize keywords and much more.
Can Adobe please do something like that but maybe cooler, since you're Adobe?

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Contributor ,
Nov 14, 2019 Nov 14, 2019

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Ever hopeful...

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 14, 2019 Nov 14, 2019

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I'm currently checking out alternatives, as painful as it may be...

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New Here ,
Aug 23, 2020 Aug 23, 2020

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My problem is that I used Lightroom for many years before discovering the keyword hierarchy features, and I suspect that's not a unique experience. Now that I know how much easier I could have made things if I had known how it worked from the beginning, I'm finding it very unwieldy trying to go back and organize my existing, lengthy flat list into a useful hierarchy. It's not the comprehensive fix that I or a lot of others want, but one simple (I think) addition would be the ability within the Edit Keyword Tag dialog to specify a containing keyword from the existing list. This would eliminate a lot of drag-and-dropping when the two keywords are not close together alphabetically. 

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LEGEND ,
Aug 23, 2020 Aug 23, 2020

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I agree that keyword management could be much better. But a tip for reorganizing large keyword lists: In the Keyword List panel's Filter Keywords box, type the keyword you want to drag to and the keyword you want drag:



In this example, only keywords containing the string "people" or the string "richard" will be displayed. Now it's easy to drag "Richard III" to "People" without waiting for the panel to scroll painfully slowly.

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New Here ,
Aug 24, 2020 Aug 24, 2020

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That's one trick I've been relying on, but I do mainly travel & landscape and it's not quite as effective when you're dealing with things like place names which often contain multiple common words. Another thing I'll do is temporarily modify one tag with an extra word so it sorts near the other one, then remove it again once the move is done.

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