Important Update Lightroom Classic to 9.2 (READ the info provided in the anouncement posted earlier)

Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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There are some significant updates particularly one that could affect the Default Develop settings if you have used the feature for creating camera-specific defaults. My application was auto-updated overnight.

Some users may wish to be aware of the changes before they update. Just a heads up.

 

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.3: Lightroom Classic 9.2, Photoshop, Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Important Update Lightroom Classic to 9.2 (READ the info provided in the anouncement posted earlier)

Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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There are some significant updates particularly one that could affect the Default Develop settings if you have used the feature for creating camera-specific defaults. My application was auto-updated overnight.

Some users may wish to be aware of the changes before they update. Just a heads up.

 

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.3: Lightroom Classic 9.2, Photoshop, Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Yes it’s good to be aware. I never have any apps or operating system set to auto-update.

 

I quite like the new raw defaults as I have always used an import preset which I have made the new starting point for all imports. This enables me to apply an iso related NR import preset on top of the starting default which automatically applies an interpolation of luminace smoothing. My blog has a bit more information.

https://99jon.blogspot.com/2020/02/lightroom-updates-february-2020.html

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Feb 15, 2020

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Thank you so much for this - I have now solved a problem whereby LR randomly altered my In-Camera Profile back into Adobe Standard even after using the Edit/Preferences tab (Windows 10) to default the RAW import to Camera Settings.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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The Lightroom Queen also raises some other points in her article, including the ISO specific settings.

LR 9.2 update. 

Regards, Denis: System iMac mid-2015, 5K 27” monitor, macOS10.15.3: Lightroom Classic 9.2, Photoshop, Camera OM-D E-M1.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Laura Shoe has also a very detailed article about the new funtions in the 9.2 - update.

There is a good video tutorial about the new develop settings included.

https://laurashoe.com/2020/02/11/whats-new-in-lightroom-classic-9-2-raw-defaults/

 

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Feb 11, 2020

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Sometimes, I really don't understand the things that Adobe writes, their language doesn't easily translate to understanding (in my case). So, I have a question:

 

We have heard for many years, and it was certainly true, that in-camera settings such as saturation and sharpness (and probably others) don't show up in Lightroom from RAW photos, because Lightroom doesn't try to understand this manufacturer's metadata in the RAW files. Does this change with the new features in 9.2?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Yep Paige, there is a change, the master default can now be set in preferences to Adobe, Camera Settings or Preset. Note the reference to Camera Settings and not Camera Profile.

 

For some newer models such as the Nikon Z series (Z7 for instance) the camera itself will record additional settings to try to match things like contrast and noise reduction more closely to the in-camera settings. Adobe default will ignore them.

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Feb 11, 2020

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So is this change to make use of camera settings available to most or all cameras? How would I know if it covers my specific camera?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Adobe says it now has setting information for most of the common cameras in use by Lightroom customers, hence the introduction of this change. For those happy with the Adobe Color profile and defaults there is no need to change anything. But I think you need to experiment with the new camera settings by importing a range of raw files form your camera and then checking for changes in the basic panel and other panels.

 

P.S. See Ian’s comment above; he summed it up well in a nutshell.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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The extended capability described 99jon  is currently limited to Nikon Z series cameras. Other vendors may follow in future, but it's very unlikely that many, if any, existing models (excepting said Nikons) and those already out of production will ever have the capability. I think the best you can realistically expect for these will be that Lightroom Classic & Camera Raw will pick up on the base settings (i.e. actual in-camera settings at default values) associated with whatever Picture Style / Control you've chosen in the camera. For example, Canon's Vivid or Landscape Picture Style with Sharpen, Contrast, etc all set to zero. In other words, the only real change (again excepting said Nikon models) between Camera Settings and Adobe Defaults is the Profile setting.

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Feb 11, 2020

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Lightroom Killer Tips specifically states the "Camera Settings" default will only try to select a LR profile that matches the name of the profile selected in camera.  Any further in-camera customizations like saturation, contrast, noise reduction, etc, will not be picked up.  This is strictly a "match the in-camera profile I picked" setting.

 

https://lightroomkillertips.com/february-2020-lightroom-classic-adobe-camera-raw-and-lightroom-cloud...

 

Also, there's no indication Adobe Default will now ignore the embedded LR develop settings from Nikon's Z cameras.  Have you tested it?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Tried it with the Z7. These are the camera settings automatically applied- see image.

To enlarge image click image once, right-click and choose open in new tab. Go to tab to view at full resolution.

 

Changing the preset pref settings to Adobe default shows no adjustments in the basics (profile Adobe Color) with standard settings in detail:

Sharpening 40

Radius 1

Detail 25

Color 25

Detail 50

  

Z7.jpg

 

 

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Feb 11, 2020

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"The extended capability described 99jon  is currently limited to Nikon Z series cameras."


Where does Adobe say this?

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Feb 11, 2020

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"Adobe says it now has setting information for most of the common cameras in use by Lightroom customers"

 

Where does Adobe say this?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Should perhaps say settings/profile information. Will always depend on make & model as shown on my Z7 sample. Also see Ian's comment on noise profiles for most cameras.

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Feb 11, 2020

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Thanks for testing it.  If I'm understanding you correctly and that screenshot shows the Adobe Default import settings, then it looks like LR is still honoring the Z7's added develop metadata as part of Adobe's Default.

 

Note the contrast is -12, saturation is +4, Luminance NR is 37, L-NR Detail  is 75, and Color NR is 10, and they are all grey, meaning those settings represent Adobe Default for that image.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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The screen shot is showing the camera settings default. I tested again that the Adobe default ignores those settings. Hope that makes it clear.

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Feb 11, 2020

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Ah, that's a screenshot of the Camera Settings default.  OK, that makes sense.

 

So if I'm understanding you correctly, when reset to Adobe Default, that image's contrast, saturation, etc. are all at zero (or Adobe's default).

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Yes correct with Adobe Color Profile.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Due to an oversight/bug there is currently no way to reset, so to speak. Therefore, you need to remove your default settings as described in 'Delete default settings' section of https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/raw-defaults.html#Setdefaultsettingsforimportingrawim...

 

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Feb 11, 2020

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See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERTVXl5ECSs&fbclid=IwAR3k1V-IrXU5HHfXr7AowM51lmmuUhl5OzM1GrkJbEao2Ab...

 

CMP: WIN WS 16GB OS 10; mid 2015 MBPr 15” 16GB MACOS 10.15.3; 4K EXT DSPY
APP: LRC 9.2, PS 21.1; CAM: Canon 5D Mk III, Fuji X-T3; Just another Adobe customer
A look at the new "raw defaults" option in Lightroom 9.2 including the new setting which will patch the picture profile to the mode you shot in-camera. Blog ...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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I can normally navigate my way through updates and changed functionality, but this one I didn't see coming. I'm absolutely stunned. I've relied on ISO specific defaults forever, and removing that blows my whole working process, from camera to finished image, to pieces. It's a disaster.

 

When I'm shooting, I often change ISO constantly, to compensate for using flash or not, varying light levels, the need to freeze rapid movement or blur it, and so on and so on. I turn that dial all the time.

 

Am I now supposed to wade through a 500 frame shoot to set noise reduction on each, one by one?

 

If they can't come up with an easy way to set defaults by ISO, in fairly short order, this will be a spectacle bigger than the one they made by introducing the "simplified" import screen. Remember that?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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It's still possible to create/apply your own defaults based on ISO. However, you will need to manually edit the XMP file using a text editor to include the specific ISO settings.  More details (including examples) can be found towards the bottom of this guide created by Adobe.

 

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/raw-defaults.html

 

Important Gotcha - updating the edited preset within Lightroom Classic or Camera Raw will remove the manually applied edits for ISO.

 

BTW, the reason Adobe chose above manual editing approach rather than preset creation within the application itself is that the existing camera profiles already include detailed noise profiles for nearly all supported cameras. This means that the nosie correction is already applied automatically (without noise slider reflecting same) based on ISO. Therefore, individual tuning at the per-ISO level is no longer as important as it was in the past.

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Feb 11, 2020

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[...] existing camera profiles already include detailed noise profiles for nearly all supported cameras. This means that the noise correction is already applied automatically (without noise slider reflecting same) based on ISO.

 

I do not believe this is correct.  Camera profiles provide a mathematical transformation from raw data (unitless numbers) to colors in a color space, and not a whole lot more.

 

Of course I could be wrong, and I'm happy to be corrected.  Do you happen to have a link that describes the above behavior in more detail?  A quick google search turned up nothing.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Thanks, Ian, I had already read that, so I knew it was possible. The point is that it shouldn't be an excercise for advanced users with a lot of time on their hands. I have a very busy workday. I already did sit down with a large shoot earlier today and wasted two hours setting noise reduction on each image, because I couldn't find time to go through cryptic instructions that would probably have taken even more time to make heads or tails of. I was mad, I can tell you.

 

I have no intention of letting Lightroom handle "camera styles". I don't even know what they are.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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One practical change would be of use to those who shoot B&W and like to visualise in the field with a Monochrome picture style.  In the past those images would have imported into Lightroom as color but the camera settings would now be respected with b&w images being displayed instantly.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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>I do not believe this is correct.  Camera profiles provide a mathemetical transformation from raw data (unitless numbers) to colors in a color space, and not a whole lot more.

 

As with other vendors Adobe measures various paramaters of the raw image data (some call it fingerprinting the camera), which includes noise. From this information a base camera profile is created. The base camera profile is unique to each camra model and is applied to the raw data during conversion from scene referred to output referred images. This article explains it bettter than I can: http://www.cse.yorku.ca/~mbrown/pdf/Karaimer_Brown_ECCV16.pdf

 

Note that I'm not suggesting that this is exactly how Adobe go about things, but clearly shows that noise reduction takes place before the colour transform and colour rendering.

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Feb 11, 2020

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That PDF is interesting, thanks for the link.  Unfortunately it's not at all specific to ACR or Lightroom and does not mention DNG Color Profiles (DCPs) or Adobe's new enhanced profiles.  It is a generic description of how one might construct an image processing pipeline from raw to final image.  It is correct insofar as, in general, noise reduction can be applied to the raw data prior to any color transformation.  It's likely Adobe does this, as they control the entire processing pipeline and can optimize which data a function is applied to and the order in which that function is applied.

 

However, that does not mean that either the original camera profiles (DCPs) or the new enhanced profiles have anything to do with noise reduction, or as you said perform noise reduction behind the scenes without disclosing it in the Detail panel.

 

In fact, Adobe's default enhanced profile, Adobe Color.xmp, when opened in a text editor reveals no ISO-specific noise reduction settings.  It's just a color look-up table plus an added tone curve that sits on top of the old tried-and-true Adobe Standard DCP.  This can be confirmed by downloading Adobe's latest Profiles SDK and reading the documentation.

 

Regarding DCPs, they also have nothing to do with noise reduction.  The DNG 1.4 spec lists the allowed DNG Camera Profile tags on page 13.  There is nothing related to noise.

 

To read the DNG spec, see here: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html

 

For a brief description of DCPs, see here: http://dcptool.sourceforge.net/DCP%20FIles.html

 

For an excellent long description of camera profiles in general, see here: http://www.lumariver.com/lrpd-manual/#profile_theory

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 11, 2020

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Your to bellive what you will. I believe what I'm told by those who write the code! 

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Feb 11, 2020

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Well I'm still genuinely curious, and like I said I'm happy to be corrected.  If you find any references, or are able to quote the programmers you spoke with, I'm all ears.

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