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Virtual Copy Not Visible in Collection

Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2018

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Just upgraded to LR Classic 8 and running Mac 10.13.6 on a MBP.

Now, when I create a virtual copy, I see a little flash of the black frame that tells me the copy is created, but I need to go to All Photographs to see it.  In the previous version, it appeared right next to the 'original' file, even if I was working in a collection.  Is there a workaround for this?  Is there a Preference I'm missing?

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Correct answer by JohanElzenga | Adobe Community Professional

https://forums.adobe.com/people/mobius+trip  wrote

Thanks, richardplondon, all good things to check. The VCs were created in the collection I'm viewing.  It's not a SC. View sort is - as always - capture time.

I've done absolutely nothing different than I usually do, and I've been working with VCs since LR1 beta!  The only variable is the new version of LR.  I think it's a bug.

If it was a bug, other people would see this too and there would already be plenty of complaints. I don't see this on my Mac with exactly the same versions for Lightroom and MacOS X and I have never seen any report from somebody else, so this must be something on your machine. Start by resetting the preferences: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

BTW, is it a collection, or a smart collection? If it's a smart collection then it could be in the criteria.

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Virtual Copy Not Visible in Collection

Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2018

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Just upgraded to LR Classic 8 and running Mac 10.13.6 on a MBP.

Now, when I create a virtual copy, I see a little flash of the black frame that tells me the copy is created, but I need to go to All Photographs to see it.  In the previous version, it appeared right next to the 'original' file, even if I was working in a collection.  Is there a workaround for this?  Is there a Preference I'm missing?

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Correct answer by JohanElzenga | Adobe Community Professional

https://forums.adobe.com/people/mobius+trip  wrote

Thanks, richardplondon, all good things to check. The VCs were created in the collection I'm viewing.  It's not a SC. View sort is - as always - capture time.

I've done absolutely nothing different than I usually do, and I've been working with VCs since LR1 beta!  The only variable is the new version of LR.  I think it's a bug.

If it was a bug, other people would see this too and there would already be plenty of complaints. I don't see this on my Mac with exactly the same versions for Lightroom and MacOS X and I have never seen any report from somebody else, so this must be something on your machine. Start by resetting the preferences: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

BTW, is it a collection, or a smart collection? If it's a smart collection then it could be in the criteria.

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Oct 25, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 25, 2018

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Is it possible you have a Filter applied that shows 'Masters' only?

Press [Ctrl+L]  to toggle filters off.

ScreenShot421.jpg

Regards. My System: Lr-Classic 10.0, Photoshop 22.0.1, Lightroom 4.0, Windows-10 Nikon DSLR.

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Oct 25, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2018

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Thanks, WobertC, but no filters are applied!  Good thought, though.

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Oct 25, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Oct 25, 2018

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One thought: a new VC should inherit membership in a Collection if created while viewing the respective master in the context of that collection. But it will not also inherit membership in any other collections the same master image may belong to. And it will not inherit membership in any Collections if created in the context of a folder based view, or the Previous Import view, or All Photographs.

Another: it will only appear alongside the respective master image in a Smart Collection, if its own attributes meet the criteria of that.

Another: if the sort order for your collection is (for example) by import sequence, or has a custom sort, the brand new VC may still be listed in there, but not PLACED alongside its master midway in the sequence - occurring instead, right at one end as the sort dictates.

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Oct 25, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2018

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Thanks, richardplondon, all good things to check. The VCs were created in the collection I'm viewing.  It's not a SC. View sort is - as always - capture time.

I've done absolutely nothing different than I usually do, and I've been working with VCs since LR1 beta!  The only variable is the new version of LR.  I think it's a bug.

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Oct 25, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 26, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/mobius+trip  wrote

Thanks, richardplondon, all good things to check. The VCs were created in the collection I'm viewing.  It's not a SC. View sort is - as always - capture time.

I've done absolutely nothing different than I usually do, and I've been working with VCs since LR1 beta!  The only variable is the new version of LR.  I think it's a bug.

If it was a bug, other people would see this too and there would already be plenty of complaints. I don't see this on my Mac with exactly the same versions for Lightroom and MacOS X and I have never seen any report from somebody else, so this must be something on your machine. Start by resetting the preferences: https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

BTW, is it a collection, or a smart collection? If it's a smart collection then it could be in the criteria.

-- Johan W. Elzenga, http://www.johanfoto.com

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Oct 26, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Oct 26, 2018

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As above, not in a smart collection, but resetting prefs fixed the problem; thanks.

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Oct 26, 2018 0
Explorer ,
Nov 13, 2018

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What preference did you change that resolved the problem?  I have the problem too.

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Nov 13, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 26, 2018

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I've just tested this.

"IF" I create a VC while in a collection and then go to the Folder the image is stored in the VC shows. Going back to the collection the VC is still there.

"IF" I create a VC while in the Folder the images is stored in and then go to the collection that same image is in the VC DOES NOT show. Going back to the Folder the VC is still there.

Closing down and reopening LR has no affect on this. Same as above.

If you are seeing something different then do as suggested above and Delete the Preferences file and test.

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Oct 26, 2018 0
Adobe Community Professional ,
Oct 26, 2018

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Just+Shoot+Me  wrote

I've just tested this.

"IF" I create a VC while in a collection and then go to the Folder the image is stored in the VC shows. Going back to the collection the VC is still there.

"IF" I create a VC while in the Folder the images is stored in and then go to the collection that same image is in the VC DOES NOT show. Going back to the Folder the VC is still there.

Yes, that is as expected. A virtual copy is treated like a real copy. If you create it while in a collection, it should show in that collection. It should not automatically show in any other collection that contains the master image. If you create the VC while in a folder, it should not automatically show in any collection that contains the master image. It should always show in the folder that contains the master image, no matter where it was created.

-- Johan W. Elzenga, http://www.johanfoto.com

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Oct 26, 2018 0
Community Beginner ,
Aug 27, 2020

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Can we maybe just have a flag in the Preferences about what to do with virtual copies created under folder view? I wish them to be stored in the same collection(s) of the main image, as my workflow would benefit from this. I often browse photos from the main folder and edit/VC them directly there. It would be great to have such a feature. Some workflows are about working a collection at a time, others are different, but manually store VC's in the respective collections is a pain in the grass. 😄

 

Thank you.

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Aug 27, 2020 0
Explorer ,
Nov 13, 2018

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I have the problem too.  To reproduce the problem, I have a Collection Set and a collection within it.  I have a picture in the collection.  Viewing the Collection Set, I create a Virtual Copy but I don't see it.  (It only appears in the original Folder, which seems to negate the value of Collections).  If I view the Collection, instead of the Collection Set, and then create a Virtual Copy the Copy does appear in both the Collection and the Collection Set.  Whether that is a bug or a suggestion, I wish it worked the way that seems intuitive - when you create a Virtual Copy in a view, you expect to see the Copy in that view.

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Nov 13, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Nov 13, 2018

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If you create a VC when viewing a Collection Set, with more than one Collection inside, how can LR know which of those Collections to make this a member of?

A Collection Set cannot itself hold individual images, only Collections. The only reason you can see any images when viewing a Collection Set, is by virtue of those images' membership in those Collections.

If I understand your enquiry correctly - you are suggesting in effect that it would be better if standard Collections could be nested inside each other, and not only in Collection Sets. And IMO that would open quite a can of worms. The same Collection may appear within more than one Collection Set, or in the selection criteria for a Smart Collection, a Smart Publish Collection, etc.

IF each such appearance carried with it not only those images with explicit membership but also all the images of its nested sub-collections too - which would be an extension of your suggested principle - how quickly would things run out of control? … especially the moment anything changed. Currently there's a clarity:

  • Collection membership is an attribute of a particular image (be that master, or VC);
  • Collection Set inclusion is an attribute of a particular Collection.

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Nov 13, 2018 1
Explorer ,
Nov 14, 2018

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Thanks for your reply and the explanation of the complexities and consequences of handling virtual copies differently.  My preference would be to make the Virtual Copy visible in every collection in which it occurs within a Collection Set - except for Published Collections.

But if that can't be the case, then I'd prefer to get a warning message saying something like:  "You are trying to create a Virtual Copy while viewing a Collection Set.  It will only be visible in the original Master file folder.  To create a Virtual Copy within a Collection please switch to that Collection first." 

The intuitive thing I expect is that anytime I create a Virtual Copy i expect to see it.  The complexities of why it isn't visible are not intuitive at all.  Thus, a warning, or even a prohibition, when what seems like the obvious result doesn't occur seems (to me) like a good idea. 

At least now I understand what is happening and why.  But would most people?

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Nov 14, 2018 0
Mentor ,
Nov 14, 2018

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I do take your point about general expectations (wanting to see the copy alongside, in wherever you've made it from).

And that is what you normally do see... except when the context is of a nature, or is filtered, such that it logically shouldn't show.

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Nov 14, 2018 0
Most Valuable Participant ,
Aug 27, 2020

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Alessandro, you wrote, "Can we maybe just have a flag in the Preferences about what to do with virtual copies created under folder view?"

 

I see you added this idea to an existing bug report. I forked it to a separate feature request here:

https://console.getsatisfaction.com/photoshop_family/conversations/lightroom-classic-option-for-crea...

 

[Use the blue reply button under the first post to ensure replies sort properly.]

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Aug 27, 2020 0