Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[Graham_Barr]

BenPleysier You are comparing a clunky code Muse website with a Webflow site that I quickly knocked-up as a TEST. Just to see if it was a viable alternative for me. Most of the 30 errors are missing alt-tags, so its hardly a comparable or fair test.

Sorry, you feel I don't have 'the right' to sell my websites, but its horses for courses.  My clients are small local businesses that cannot afford to spend £££££ on sleek websites built and coded by expensive professionals. I'm so pleased for you and your wonderfully high score.

Many like me are 'creatives' who are able to make a living helping small businesses with small budgets. It is frustrating that some of the more technically minded on here look down their noses with such disdain at less competent players.

This thread is about alternatives for Muse, most 'Musers' are done with Adobe, we've been stitched-up, hence why we are looking elsewhere.

[BenPleysier]

Graham_Barr  wrote

Many like me are 'creatives' who are able to make a living helping small businesses with small budgets. It is frustrating that some of the more technically minded on here look down their noses with such disdain at less competent players.

It's like me when I am being creative, designers are looking down their noses at me. So please do not take the victim attitude in defending your complete ineptitude when it comes down to web development.

At the moment I am testing Wappler which will bridge the gap between Dreamweaver and the 'look Mum - no coding' apps. The code that it produces using visual aids will be the same as the handcoded version. The advantage is that I can port a Wappler site to any server and maintain it with any editor.

Ask your mates at Webflow if they have the same flexibility. Also ask what happens when Webflow goes belly up in a similar manner to Muse. Also ask if they can accommodate PHP/MySQL and/or ASP.NET/Classic ASP

As an Example, with just a few strokes I add a map and a Contact Form complete with reCaptcha and Send Mail.

So please, no more Webflow bull-dust.

[GARRogers]

There are different sets of circumstances. You may have 100% of your time to learn 100% of the possibilities out there and work endlessly at it, but some of us aren't in that position. It seems to me like a little tolerance for different goals and possibilities might help this thread.

[BenPleysier]

GARRogers  wrote

There are different sets of circumstances. You may have 100% of your time to learn 100% of the possibilities out there and work endlessly at it, but some of us aren't in that position. It seems to me like a little tolerance for different goals and possibilities might help this thread.

I appreciate that and do take it on board. I am sorry if I have given the impression of being intolerant. I love my work, I love developing websites.

I realise that there is majority of designers that use Muse as an easy way to create a website. That does not make them web developers. The same goes for me when I use Photoshop; that does not make me a designer. I am sure that you would be even more critical of my designs than I am of a poorly created website.

[GARRogers]

Ben Pleysier: I'm sorry if I sounded sharp. I realize there are people like you who are way sophisticated; some of us aren't. Maybe we would like to be, but our work has taken us in other directions.

I know just enough about Muse to know that it has problems, but for someone like me it has been a godsend. I have a very small but very active business and Muse gave me a way of reaching my followers; unlike all these boxy templates, Muse gave me the opportunity to coordinate the look of my website with the designs (NOT computer related) that I sell.

I've been following the forum in hopes that people like you who know much more than I do would help me find a solution so that I could get on with my little business. I ask for me personally because I suspect I am one of many here looking for a similar solution.

(In short, yes, I know the ideal, that I code my own. I learned some HTML and CSS (never Javascript) when the kids who were teaching me decided that it simply wasn't practical, given all else I had to do. There's only so much time out there; too many fish to fry).

[work_at_it]

@BenPleysier, looking at Muse, Webflow, Blocs etc, from the perspective of still needing to still be able to get in there and code.... or caring what code it uses, or that the code was longer, or not clean.... if you're still in love with .php.... if you still think any sizable number of people are going to need these skill sets in a few years... I think you're out of touch with web revolution taking place.

Frankly, with internet speeds and mobile processor speeds evolving the way they are, all of this matters less and less every month. Small differences in load time become less and less. A bloated code page can place as high in SEO as is needed for most clients already. Read 1st page. It has more to do with content, etc, etc. The user experience once someone gets to a site by myriad marketing methods---not just organic search---is what will drive sales, and thus, successful websites for our clients.

You and I are both old enough to remember the desktop publishing revolution. I used to be a phototypesetter, and we used a roller to affix cut out pieces of waxed paper. Remember how the soon-to-be-extinct type houses talked about their expertise, and how we couldn't put typography in the hands of designers?

These new programs eliminate a major step in the production process. They will win, and no one will care what's under the hood. It already barely matters.

This is also @Terri Stevens... but you don't look old enough to remember type houses

[krayzee2k9]

Can you crawl back under your rock. you aren't helping anyone here.

[BenPleysier]

krayzee2k9  wrote

Can you crawl back under your rock. you aren't helping anyone here.

What, and let you wait longer for your post to be passed at moderation level?

[Terri_Stevens]

BenPleysier  wrote

krayzee2k9   wrote

Can you crawl back under your rock. you aren't helping anyone here.

What, and let you wait longer for your post to be passed at moderation level?

I don't think I'd have passed that one Ben. There is a difference between an angry jibe and an offensive statement  and @krayzee2k9 just stepped over the line. I think he's going to be drinking in the last chance saloon pretty soon if he keeps that up.

[krayzee2k9]

Relax it was a one off, I'm usually nice. His comments were just downright derogatory and unhelpful. People are worried, scared about their business and futures. We don't need someone coming in and telling us we need to write code or we need to hire a professional. We did just fine with Muse before. but you are right I shouldn't have said anything. Apologies

A lot of people here CAN write code, myself included - I just don't want to for simple websites that won't have a lot of viewers. Muse's code has been good enough for many years for those users and for me so please keep the thread on track of Alternatives. Thank you.

[sstuart48]

Here we go.... one of the ACP's has returned to get some more points in order to get free branded goodies from Adobe.

Ben look at this.... Muse website I built last year. I can make it get all A's if I wanted to, but the client wanted larger images so be it. Now go away, this forum is for people discussing next steps after muse. You aren't invested in this thread as your knowledge of Muse is limited. Seek your Adobe points elsewhere please.

[BenPleysier]

sstuart48  wrote

Here we go.... one of the ACP's has returned to get some more points in order to get free branded goodies from Adobe.

Ben look at this.... Muse website I built last year. I can make it get all A's if I wanted to, but the client wanted larger images so be it. Now go away, this forum is for people discussing next steps after muse. You aren't invested in this thread as your knowledge of Muse is limited. Seek your Adobe points elsewhere please.

I have plenty of brownie points to keep me going to the end of my life, I am turning 75 next month thank you.

I have seen many a Muse specialist come to the Dreamweaver forum for assistance. Likewise, you will be most welcome and we can help you get a higher score if you are willing to abandon Muse.

As far as my invested interest are concerned; to be able to produce W3C compliant websites using the latest technologies in the smallest possible time frame. My view is that the primary purpose of a website is functionality in all forms, be it mobile devices or large screen TV's. If design is of an equal priority, I give the task to a professional designer who issues me with a Photoshop mock up.

[BenPleysier]

sstuart48  wrote

this forum is for people discussing next steps after muse. You aren't invested in this thread as your knowledge of Muse is limited.

I think I gave you a decent alternative and it is called Wappler. Even Dreamweaver would be better than the alternatives that I have seen here.

Yes, my knowledge of Muse is limited, but at least I have had a go at it and it is a darn site more knowledge than the Webflow spammers.

[sstuart48]

Wappler hasn't even bothered to come to this forum and sell their wares. Webflow have.

Ben, you don't get it mate, I do digital advertising / Premiere / Indesign for brochures and several other things, I can't add 'coding' to the CV as well - it's too much to keep up with the changes in all of the things I do already let alone that. This is why Muse did the job. Luckily we now have Webflow which produces code that is better than Muse. I can read code fine, and understand that Dreamweaver allows the editing of the code. Do you know what? I used to tweak the Muse code sometimes in Dreamweaver, but never by much due to the reset every time I ran an export. I just don't have time Ben. This is the market Muse now gives up on - the market it has now lost to Webflow. The digitally savvy entrepreneur, the ones that hire people, that make the decisions, the ones that buy those additional CC licences for their employees. Oh well.

[BenPleysier]

As I have said before, choose wisely and if that means Webflow, then so be it.

[GARRogers]

Ben Pleysier: As I have said before, choose wisely and if that means Webflow, then so be it.

OK, given your reluctance about Webflow (perhaps well taken), and given the position some of us are in,

which apps would you recommend? Taking into account time and knowledge restraints, what would you have us do?

I for one would be very interested to know.

Thanks for your help.

[BenPleysier]

I have always used the tools that have made me comfortable, I even use a hammer to insert screws because it is faster (joke).

What is comfortable to me, may not be comfortable for you. Just make sure that you consider your options. I have mentioned

• Dreamweaver
• Wappler
• Pinegrow

Others to consider:

• Bootstrap Website Builder
• Spark
• WYSIWYG Web Builder

You will have noticed that I have quoted downloadable applications that do not require a browser to go to someone else's site or need to be hosted there.

Google is my best friend in all of this. If I had the time, I would most likely come up with even better solutions.

My advice:

Go to HTML Tutorial and start learning.

Edit:

Oops! made a mistake with Spark

[Samael_s_Workshop]

You know what, I found my next muse . Well more of a canvas viewing web builder, I can inject my own code into it and I don't need to be online. I can tie in other CMSs and CDNs so now I am happy. WYSIWYG web builder. I can build my own extensions/widgets(originally known as: extended markups) as how web developers do build onto their websites. WYSIWYG Web Builder - Extension Builder  I am good to go. Yippy converting over to this won't be hard. Thanks for this find. I am good to go, but still with what adobe is doing to its customer base is BS and this needs to be stopped. Because with me this isn't just with MUSE, no no no. This is with the practice of adobe. They shut done or given up on to many good tools. Like I have said what is next with them? Who are they going to hurt next. I will still always use Photoshop. I have to many custom scripts running with it, if they take that down that will destroy some much to a lot of people, businesses and companies.

[Peter Villevoye]

Seems that Ben wants Wappler to be the Soup of the Day, while I think this is exactly the kind of software which typical Muse users would want to keep at bay ! It requires a fair amount of much experience with coding, and for those users it looks great. If Dreamweaver woud be axed, this is their users' exit strategy.

We can keep arguing about Muse's erroneous code, slow loads, bad compliance with standards, etcetera, but I'm afraid that's not what counts to most of the Muse users and their clients. After all, without the Muse EOL announcement, they would still be happy and ignorant about what they're putting out, merely hoping for an upgrade. So Wappler doesn't address their needs – Webflow does, although it does require some basic understanding of HTML and CSS (without the need to know code).

[Peter Villevoye]

BTW, I wonder if the whole EOL might be an April Fools joke, a bad marketing stunt just to get more people on the Spark bandwagon. Its name has been uttered so often in this thread, that it's almost like the "Spam" mantra in the famous Monty Python's video...

Spam - Monty Python's The Flying Circus - YouTube

[BenPleysier]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Villevoye  wrote

Seems that Ben wants Wappler to be the Soup of the Day, while I think this is exactly the kind of software which typical Muse users would want to keep at bay ! It requires a fair amount of much experience with coding, and for those users it looks great. If Dreamweaver would be axed, this is their users' exit strategy.

Sorry, far from it. I mention Wappler because I have am playing an active role in its development. I have also mentioned a couple of other possible solutions, one of which has already been adopted. 

As far as needing coding knowledge, yes it does help but is not absolutely necessary, I have built several sites using the visual method, no coding.

Speaking of a knowledge of coding, does that not make the difference? Why are you in this predicament? Real web developers can use anything from Notepad to complicated IDE's to develop a website. They are independent of any proprietary software.

All of this does not take away the hurt that Adobe is causing you, but it can be a wake-up call. Start learning to code.

[Peter Villevoye]

Speaking of a knowledge of coding, does that not make the difference? Why are you in this predicament? Real web developers can use anything from Notepad to complicated IDE's to develop a website. They are independent of any proprietary software. All of this does not take away the hurt that Adobe is causing you, but it can be a wake-up call. Start learning to code.

That's exactly the point: Muse is a pretty nifty production tool for web designers who are not "real web developers" ! And I'm not going into the discussion of designers needing to learn code. Been there, done that, too often, and my conclusion after 25 years of teaching thousands of designers to create websites, is that the sheer sight of a tag, a bracket, or semicolon instantly blocks their blood flow and brain activity. Apart from the odd unicorn (who doesn't need any tutoring from me), it's simply not in a designer's DNA.

Having said that, it is indeed imperative or at least beneficial for them to know how HTML behaves (the DOM, box model), what role CSS plays (semantics, classes), and how JS can add to a user's experience, without knowing any actual coding. Most designers do have an eye for efficient structures and workflows, after all that's often what they're being paid for. But just like they never needed to write a single line of PostScript, they don't want to be bothered with the nuts and bolts of coding and syntaxes.

[BenPleysier]

My wife drives a car (more modern than mine) but has no idea of where the spare wheel is let alone be able to change the wheel on the car. When she has a flat tyre, she calls the experts.

If I have to develop a web site that needs a professional design, I call in the experts.

Why should there be an exemption for designers?

[Peter Villevoye]

Please Ben, don't define websites too generic.

Not all websites are destinations which need cars. Some websites can be reached by bicycle, or just a walk in the park.

Yes, a mid-sized to large website requires a whole team of marketeers, designers, and developers. But many small to mid-sized websites can be produced by a much smaller team, even a lone ranger, hiring a developer if necessary.

[Duncan Wilcox]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Villevoye  wrote

But just like they never needed to write a single line of PostScript, they don't want to be bothered with the nuts and bolts of coding and syntaxes.

As someone who actually learnt and wrote a little bit of production PostScript code (late 1980s), honest question, did any InDesign user ever need to know any PostScript?

Duncan