Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[Ussnorway]

the biggest + | - of Adobe XD is that it allows you to design interfaces that [currently] don't work... I am keeping a eye on it but not a Muse replacement of course

[fotoroeder]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Villevoye  schrieb

and indeed collaboration platforms, various competing ones though. And a surprising lot of them (about a third) were already working with Adobe XD or at least seriously looking into it. (The new animation features in XD sure got a bunch of oohs and aahs...)

I´m very much interested in that collaboration platforms? Personally I don`t have an issue with designing and transform/translate that design into a website but how. To learn code from the ground up is hopefully not the only answer. It´s also a question of what kind of clients are willing to pay for design and coding as two bullets in the upcoming invoices. Real world is sometimes tough with that.

To know a tool on how to transform sketch or XD or whatever to a working website is what muse offered in a way.

Animation in XD might be oooh and aaah but is not useful at all (in my opinion), if one (especially me) doesn`t know how to put that into a website, right?

Kind Regards,

Uwe

[Xavier Frasser]

Well it seems to me that all the programs are good as Adobe XD but what happens Adobe XD only for designs and that program can not be done HTML web as adobe muse what we are doing is a very good program but as the development already do not want to continue that is bad news although webflow is a very powerful program that can do everything 100% but what happens is that it is very difficult because it contains block not like adobe muse to be able to drag and move what you want by sides but webflow can not do everything by block is a very difficult job and it takes time to finish the project and another thing I found the program called WEBYDO is almost similar like Adobe Muse although WEBYDO the very expensive plan is not worth it and waiting for time and time for the price to go down but that's a bit of an exaggeration but I've already searched for thousands of software to make the web look like adobe muse I never found I'm worried about the adobe muse you're not going to follow I do not know if there is an opportunity for Adobe muse to follow the future.

I also made a lot of designs for the Adobe muse program but when the client told me I liked the design and approved now the client told me to make ready in HTML besides I am not a programmer or expert that is serious that the client did for HTML of one and as adobe muse no longer has future that the most serious and I do not know where to do the web with high professional without coding but if I hire a development engineer for the web but that charges me extremely to develop it and make animation I do not know that almost 2,500 dollars per page so that it has the same design as Adobe XD but as I say Adobe XD is the same as photoshop or illustrator so that always repertir the tool is equal that loses more time developing the adobe XD program all this is almost intent account the so powerful program called Invision Studio that is on top that adobe xd all the life although there is no windows version is only in mac bad news because that program invision s Studio has its own animation that can create everything you want to be great.

But it hurts we have looked for the program to create the web without coding and I do not find any there is no future who creates it the development for the web without coding that is very difficult there is no new news.

I found something but I got confused because a brand named Muse 2 appeared but they were not the program but a technology that disappointed me I thought they were an advanced web brand but it was not that bad.

Attachment link

http://s.muz.li/ZDI1Yjc5OWZl

regards

[Nancy OShea]

Muse 2 looks like a Fitbit for the brain .   Obviously it's aimed at meditation not web authoring.

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Xavier+Frasser  wrote

we have looked for the program to create the web without coding and I do not find any...

Why don't you spend a weekend and start learning to work with code? It's not that hard.
W3Schools Online Web Tutorials

• You will no longer be a slave to a web authoring tool or service because you cannot work with code.
• You'll improve yourself and your skill set.
• You'll be better able to fix problems when they arise.
• You'll be more valuable to clients / employers who will pay more for your time.

[pziecina]

greenskin  wrote

Adobe XD looks a great product, but today's world for us Full Stack Designers means we develop the site as well into its full glory and not hand it over to be interpreted! ...

Adobe has left the "web design building"!

I always hated the term, 'Full Stack', what type of stack, and which stack is being talked about is left open to interpretation. When it comes to the web, one can be talking about anything from text and images to VR, (virtual reality).

Adobe dropped the ball regarding web design/development in 2009 when it tried to shoehorn the implementation of rwd into both Dreamweaver and then Muse, whilst still maintaining that html5/css3 and developments in the way sites are coded, was not important for the future of either product.

If Adobe had been serious, then the Edge products would have been combined in both development and release into one product, and offered as a Muse alternative, (a middle point between Muse and Dw).

As for Dreamweaver being EOL'd at some point, I think it is only a slight possibility of being so. The Dreamweaver managment is also the Brackets code editor managment, so the team producing Dw and supporting it is very small, which probably makes it just profitable enough to keep, (though not really develop seriously).

[greenskin]

Adobe has closed the door on seeing design jobs through to reality pziecina, mostly and in particular the web!

I don't see that Adobe will keep Dreamweaver and its Team too much longer in action as their 2018 Adobe Max proves - not one training work shop or talks on the application let alone the vision/future for it!

And then to add insult they go and tell us that Spark is a solution for us web designers! That is proof enough they have set us adrift!

[pziecina]

greenskin  wrote

Adobe has closed the door on seeing design jobs through to reality pziecina , mostly and in particular the web!

I don't see that Adobe will keep Dreamweaver and its Team too much longer in action as their 2018 Adobe Max proves - not one training work shop or talks on the application let alone the vision/future for it!

Adobe had 2 workshops on the use of Bootstrap, guess which Adobe application has Bootstrap built in?

Answer = Dreamweaver.

I do agree that Adobe has no further interest in web development apps that are for none coders, and I have no idea what Adobes vision for Dreamweaver is in the future, (I don't think they have one).

[osxmarky]

Hi Linda, i've asked the same question on a number of forums with no response from Adobe.... we might see something at Max this year, but to be honest I've moved on to other platforms W/code & Webflow, which are far better than Muse ever was, think Adobe might have missed the boat on this one....

[Peter Villevoye]

There's still that earlier suggestion lingering from a few people, that there might be a revamped version of Spark Page this fall, aimed at a tad larger projects than just an Adobe branded and hosted one-pager. The upcoming Adobe MAX could be a great opportunity to announce it. It would probably tap into the lively market of online frameworks, offering a WYSIWYG editor, just like many already available SaaS web tools like Wix and Webflow, and WordPress plugins like Avada and DiVi. And let's not forget WordPress 5.0's very own brand new "Gutenberg" front-end environment, which is still under development but looking promising !

We'll see.

[greenskin]

Did likewise!

This year's Adobe Max showed to me that Dreamweaver is next!

[shantm4422818]

Although I am as frustrated as anyone over the cancelling of Muse. I am under the thought that if Muse is/was a successful and sought after wed design software and ultimately in much demand, then there should be other companies fast in the tracks wanting to fill that void. Demand and supply. And if there is that demand then why would Adobe give it up?

[greenskin]

Adobe has other plans shantm4422818and they don't involve web design and web development anymore!

There are a number of others like photoshop, illustrator, indesign but Adobe isn't setting them adrift so the argument doesn't add up saying that Adobe is unable to compete with the others out there! In the end Muse was not enough integrated into their new business model like XD is now! If Adobe was to bring out anything similar to Adobe Muse in the future it will be 100% cloud-based allowing them total control, allowing them to gather stats on its use and the user, integrating their marketing platform, etc...

It is time to move on because Adobe isn't listening anymore to us web designers/developers!

[BenPleysier]

And that is where greenskin​ is wrong. One of the best web design/development tools on the market is Dreamweaver. Have a look at this Adobe Max presentation Adobe MAX—The Creativity Conference.

It may be that the likes of Sparkle is a good idea, yet its future is no more secure than Muse's future and it has the same coding problem that Muse had..

If you profess to produce a website for a client, it is your duty to supply one that is professional, not a backyard job. There are plenty of other good tools that will deliver. Just Google the subject and you will come across them. As for me, I have settled on using an ever improving (weekly updates) Wappler which has made visual development a breeze. Not sure though if Wappler has made it further south than Melbourne .

[greenskin]

To BenPleysier

Well, aren't we an angry little man! I guess you had a bad day at work and needed to vent!

Admittingly I'm corrected on the one Adobe Dreamweaver workshop as opposed to the 10 XD work shops plus all the vision/future hoopla! And you say "one of the best design/development tools on the market" which would be correct if we were in 2009! Even the work shop video was highlighting the issues of using Dreamweaver plus it is a convoluted mess to use!

This feed was about designers looking for a replacement for Muse (a free-flowing canvas instead of the cookie-cutter bootstrap) and I have been mentioning Sparkle because it is pretty close... but lets mention the full on Wappler that has links to Dreamweaver's past! Something far cheaper and easier to use if you want to go the Bootstap way is Bootstrap Studio, or even Blocs!

Mmmm... my duty!, backyard job! Before you throw stones you should take a look at your totally outdated website and ask yourself the question "does this look professional?" In fact it is so professional it doesn't even present meta title or meta description which the likes of Google looks for to rank a site and the hero image is pixelated and stretched on retina screens - wow! And if you knew what you were talking about you would know a client does not care a rats what the code looks like but cares about the site doing what it was designed to do - ranking, customers, revenue and return on investment-  ROI. But thank you for your small-minded one-eyed judgement!

I'm fully aware of those other tools  you can find through Google which I use as well like Pinegrow, Blocks, Bootstrap Studio, Webflow which have most certainly found there way further south beyond your city, so thank you for your concern!

[BenPleysier]

greenskin​, well that has put me back in my place .

I do not profess to be a designer in the same manner that you should not profess to be a web developer. That's all I'll say on the subject.

[pziecina]

greenskin  wrote

Admittingly I'm corrected on the one Adobe Dreamweaver workshop as opposed to the 10 XD work shops plus all the vision/future hoopla! And you say "one of the best design/development tools on the market" which would be correct if we were in 2009! Even the work shop video was highlighting the issues of using Dreamweaver plus it is a convoluted mess to use!

I don't want to turn this into a Dw vs all the rest discussion, so I would advise you to read some of the discussions over the last few years in the Dw forum. The difference you will find there is that I said 2008 and not 2009, (or if you prefer upto IE8 support requirements).

Dw does have its good points, but as I have also said in the discussion previously, it has none for none coders, and none for actual coders, but it may be suitable for 'none serious' coder requirerments.

Ask yourself this -

If Dw is so good then why do Dw extension developers not use it when developing extensions, or why does Adobe not use it for anything?

That said for anyone wishing to learn how to code (as though it was 2008), then all the 'pop-up' info may help them understand what they are doing, (code wise).

[Nancy OShea]

If you leverage Dreamweaver with commercial extensions from Project Seven , DMX Zone or WebAssist, you have the tools you need for most front end and back end development tasks.   Is DW a perfect tool?  No.  Quite frankly, I don't know any tool that is these days.  I use several apps alongside DW but I have yet to find one that I like using as much.   

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

If you leverage Dreamweaver with commercial extensions from Project Seven , DMX Zone or WebAssist, you have the tools you need for most front end and back end development tasks.   Is DW a perfect tool?  No.  Quite frankly, I don't know any tool that is these days.  I use several apps alongside DW but I have yet to find one that I like using as much.   

Great idea, but not for anyone starting new with Dw.

If you take the requirements of just layout and menu creation on the front-end, then add the basic back-end extensions for just crud and user log-in, you end up with about $500 worth of extensions. For a decent set of extensions anything between $500 and $1000 is requirered as additional costs.

That makes the use of Dw one of the most expensive alternatives for ex-Muse users. Add to that the requierment of having to learn to code, as all extensions with a UI do require some knowledge of coding just to use. Then if the user wishes to do anything more such as modifying the code created by extensions, that then requires a very good knowledge of code.

Short term quick fix, Dw + extensions (or even bootstrap) may help those who already know the basics of code, but long term I doubt if they are a good recommendation unless the person does intend to learn how to code, in which case a free code editor would be a better starting point.

[greenskin]

For what it is worth and I'm talking to the xMuse Designers...

I have invested into Sketch finally, over the use of Muse, Photoshop or Illustrator, in laying out my site design and getting feedback from clients before developing the site. What I have come across is a Sketch plugin called "Anima" (https://launchpad.animaapp.com) and low and behold it turns your Sketch boards into a working websites using html/CSS/javascript with breakpoints and animation, and you can publish the site from Sketch!

Admittingly when you go through the code it is a bit convoluted and doesn't use your h1, h2, h3, p tag elements which is a problem for SEO but it does represent a free-flowing canvas that can be converted to a working website like what Muse use to do, and what Designers are asking of Adobe's XD!

[ddhamm]

We are the ones making Adobe RICH!!!  But the designers' needs are not considered. We have all transitioned from other company's products to yours. Wow, do I feel used... This XD product - not for us (won't generate the designs as web code).  Adobe Spark - says NO DESIGN EXPERTISE NEEDED. That is very sad for those of us who have years and years of design expertise. We actually prefer to use a tool that counts on our expertise and enhances it - not some kindergarten software. And your timing (as noted by others) is so telling. Discontinue a well-liked software program AND raise prices!

And you have us mostly over a barrel unless we want to explore the free options for all our design tools (which we then have to learn and waste even more time making things compatible). Because, you are where we will still go for our designer tools (Illustrator, Photoshop, etc.) Our voices are ignored but you like the money.

[Marco Romano]

@ddhamm

Perfectly agree with you: I feel used and treated without any consideration;

in the meantime, I have been using their software for almost 20 years, always regularly paid

and this is the consideration they have for us...

Come on with DIY softwares!! and no matter about burning freelance designer market

Absolute blindness

[pziecina]

ddhamm  wrote

Adobe Spark - says NO DESIGN EXPERTISE NEEDED. That is very sad for those of us who have years and years of design expertise.

Why should one require design experiance to use Adobe products for design and print layout, after all designers say they should not require coding experiance, or any knowledge of html/css/javascript at all in order to produce web sites or apps.

Anyone disagree with the above, then think how saying coding knowledge should not be required to produce web sites sound to coders.

[ALsp]

$.02...

Have you ever observed the extreme levels of work most people endure to create semi-complex Word documents? I have. And you know why? I do. It's because they use the Enter key and spacebar, and the silly boxy stuff on the ribbon to format their documents instead of using Word's very capable styles editor, which is... Yeah. It's a lot like CSS 🙂

[Peter Villevoye]

OMG - those keys are indeed a global crime !

And no: hitting the tab repeatedly doesn't make it less criminal, just a faster offence and just as hurtful as a bad case of Divitis.

When users of any system or workflow that combines content and design (whether it's in Word, with DTP tools, or for a website or app), aren't aware of the need for structure and semantics, then they'll never be able to quickly scale or redesign a project afterwards, nor benefit from related aspects like SEO and content syndication.

Muse was eventually hard-pressed because of letting less-demanding users getting away with it, while not being able to offer more serious users the nuts and bolts they needed to extend their projects.

[Nancy OShea]

pziecina  wrote

ddhamm   wrote

Adobe Spark - says NO DESIGN EXPERTISE NEEDED. That is very sad for those of us who have years and years of design expertise.

Why should one require design experiance to use Adobe products for design and print...

Right.  Adobe is doing all the leg work so you don't need any real skills.   Just add your content and call it a day.

I field questions in the forum for Adobe Portfolio which is a little like Spark.  It's an online platform for non-coders to showcase their work online.   Ironically, more people are complaining about NOT being able to add their own code t these days.   This week it's JavaScript, Unity webGL and SEO meta tags.  Before that it was custom PHP, CSS, HTML.   So there are some designers who think about code and how it can improve their Portfolio site.    Sadly, the Adobe platform they're using doesn't allow it so their design options are strictly limited to what's in the box.    That's the price we pay for ease of use.