Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[estherau]

Haha, there are 2 different softwares made by different companies with very similar names.  There is spark and sparkles.  They are entirely different, hence you confusion.  Sparkles is the useful one I gather.

In fact it wouldn't surprise me if there is going to be 3, because the early version of spark, by adobe which everyone is panning here, will be slowly upgraded to a website builder I think (that's the impression I get anyway from the adobe guy here).

[fotoroeder]

Using it together with the widget from musegrid.com it could get quite interesting and yes, it is not easy to get satisfying results.

As a single app spark is not there to do serious websites and was never ,eant to be one. It is strictly done for "telling stories".

Inside a website it could get interesting though. I so far was not able to use it in a serious website but could think of it in future, if it fits.

Best Regards,

Uwe

[Yorh_Ekin]

Frankly, I don’t get the Adobe concept after

- GoLive

- Fireworks

- Flash

- Animate

- XD

- Spark

- Dreamweawer (mostly used by Frontend developers)

Frankly, what’s the concept for building sites

with multiple linked pages in site and asset MANAGEMENT?

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Yorh+Ekin  wrote

Frankly, I don’t get the Adobe concept after

- GoLive

- Fireworks

- Flash

- Animate

- XD

- Spark

- Dreamweawer (mostly used by Frontend developers)

Frankly, what’s the concept for building sites

with multiple linked pages in site and asset MANAGEMENT?

You are asking the question that many have asked over the last 10 years.

Fireworks and GoLive were simply two products that had alternatives, (better or not, depending on ones own point of view).

Flash was dead once Apple and Android dropped support on mobile devices. It was a product that Adobe pinned its hopes on for the web, but had too many problems.

Animate, ( both versions Edge and CC) were/are not viable for mobile download, as they both produce(d) file sizes that are excessively large. Add to that the limitations of both products.

XD is mobile only, (smartphone) so not really a player in any real sense.

Spark, the current version one can forget, but the future version, well lets wait and see.

Now to Dreamweaver. If it was not for its file/site managment features, (and possibly its extensions, which you must pay extra for). All it is now, is a cut down version of the free Brackets code editor. Adobe has removed so many features, and tied its users into one workflow, (probably that of the Dreamweaver project manager) that it is no longer even considered as a serious tool by most people, (except ACP's, who get it free).

If you like Bootstrap though, it is worth a look, providing you at least know the basics of modern html, css and rwd using media-queries.

[Abambo]

pziecina  wrote

Adobe has removed so many features, and tied its users into one workflow, (probably that of the Dreamweaver project manager) that it is no longer even considered as a serious tool by most people, (except ACP's, who get it free).

Every CC user gets Dreamweaver as part of the package.

Muse is, however, a really cool product. I'm currently editing a new Muse website and will do so also in 2019. Nobody external to Adobe knows the internal metrics. Let's simply assume that there was a reasoning behind. 

[pziecina]

Abambo  wrote

Every CC user gets Dreamweaver as part of the package.

Muse is, however, a really cool product. I'm currently editing a new Muse website and will do so also in 2019. Nobody external to Adobe knows the internal metrics. Let's simply assume that there was a reasoning behind. 

The question though regarding Dreamweaver is , 'would you pay for it if it was not'?

My disagreement with the Adobes web product range, and products used to produce assets, is that even though  they do make some very good stand alone products, all are incomplete and for some unknown reason none of them tie into each other for use across the product range.

To put it simply, there is no coherent workflow when it comes to the web. Every product is developed in isolation from all other products.

Even the Experiance Cloud, which is a significant development and could be of use to many involved in the web, (even small commercial sites created in Muse) has no apps recommended for use by Microsoft using the Azure cloud hosting, (part of the Adobe - Microsoft partnership). Instead VS Pro or even VS Code are recommended.

[Peter Villevoye]

Frankly, I don’t get the Adobe concept after

- GoLive

- Fireworks

- Flash

- Animate

- XD

- Spark

- Dreamweawer (mostly used by Frontend developers)

You're forgetting PageMill/SiteMill, LiveMotion, Flex Builder, Flash Catalyst, Business Catalyst, Edge Code, Edge Reflow, Edge Animate...

Frankly, what’s the concept for building sites

with multiple linked pages in site and asset MANAGEMENT?

Well, you're overlooking the latest and biggest prize bunny of them all: Adobe Experience Manager !

This stuff is specifically geared towards building sites, managing assets, analysis, marketing.

But it's a whole system – not something even remotely similar to Muse or anything else...

[Path11]

Hang on for SPARK? Countless hours (and dollars) of training flushed down the tubes when a product is just cancelled with no alternative. Trust Adobe with Spark? Not a chance, fool me once...

[marcmandy]

Hello.

I am not going to engage in whipping here. Obviously anyone currently using Muse is going to be upset by this announcement. I have a very specific pair of questions which are unanswered by the announcement, but I'm certain have answers. I tried calling support for the answers, but ended up in India dealing with 2 people whose answers were generic and unclear. They seemed to be reading from scripts.

By way of a brief intro, I am a 67 year old who has been using Muse since shortly after it's inception and have created sites that I periodically update as needs require. I have also been using Adobe products since 1993. Muse was recommended to me by my teacher after I had difficulty learning the needed coding to properly use Dreamweaver. She suggested that it was/is a great product for those of us who are coding-challenged, yet didn't want to use templates and pre-designed options. And she was correct. I was able to create sites for myself, friends who had little economic wherewithal to hire designers, and, as it turns out, for a Native American Tribe here in NYC. ..and then came the announcement...

As a result, I now find that as a non-coder I'm faced with a potential inability to make future revisions on any of these sites. So, the two questions that I would like direct answers to are:

1- At the end of March/May 2019/2020 (depending on who your source is and what country they are in), will Muse become non-functional and disappear from my computer? or will I be able to continue using it as long as it remains compatible with 'net standards? (knowing full-well that ultimately it will fail)

2- And if it is still usable and resident on my computer, will I continue to be charged for it?

If you need this info, my access to Muse is via the "Creative Cloud single-app membership for Adobe Muse (one-year)‎" with my Renewal date: April 7, 2019

I thank you very much for any real answers you can provide!

ps- for future site creation I will be looking for similar products and options, but I'd hate to have to recreate my existing sites from scratch.

[Studio96]

My understanding is that:

1) It will stay installed on your computer and will work as long as there is no Operating System (Mac or Windows) change that then renders the software unusable - Adobe will not fix that. But otherwise, it will still run

2) Yes  - For example, I will need to keep paying for it, for example, all the time I have sites that have been built by Muse that I will need to change / update, however of course I am intending to move all my sites off Muse by 2020 or just after.

[Koboltart]

I have a number of sites produced in Muse for different clients and I don´t know anything about coding since I am an Art Director and Graphic Designer. I am desperately searching for an alternative and stumbled over a service called Musexpress available from a company called Musegain. They say you can produce the webdesign as usual in Muse and with their service convert it into WordPress for future editing and stability. Any knowledge/experience about this?

[Yorh_Ekin]

I am asking Adobe again. What is the purpose of discontinuing Adobe Muse?

What is the purpose of this EOL announcement? Clients are paying around $20 per month to

keep Adobe's software activation server alive? That's the only purpose? No more product improvements

or enhancement software updates for Adobe Muse till 2020?

I prefer since Cyberstudio times as Adobe GoLive and Adobe Muse ... I prefer to have all my files

on my puter, managing the pages, the assets, the links and everything else on a local database file

on my puter.

the .muse file ... it's a local database file. It's not online, it's offline.

[Nancy OShea]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Yorh+Ekin  wrote

I am asking Adobe again. What is the purpose of discontinuing Adobe Muse?

Adobe doesn't have to tell us why they dropped development.   As a fellow Adobe product user, I would say it's to get people off Muse and onto more suitable web authoring apps.   Muse had a great run while it lasted.  But the web has changed too much since Muse came out in 2012.  Muse can no longer keep up with modern web standards much less newer ones.   It's time to move on to other tools.

[bernwa]

Gosh, I respectfully disagree with you.  Actually I think Adobe DOES have to tell us.  They were continually updating Muse and adding new features as well as training.  And there are several companies who designed great widgets for it.  I too have been an avid Adobe user since 1999.  And I've been there since the beginning of their Creative Cloud subscription.  They gave us no warning whatsoever that it was going away.  As a matter of fact I got a notice saying my monthly subscription was going up.  But nothing about Muse being ended.  If you're satisfied and weren't a Muse user that's fine for you and you're certainly entitles to your opinion.  But there are many, many, many of use who feel betrayed.  I think it's a very valid feeling.  I've paid a lot of money to Adobe over the years and as a customer I DO expect to be treated with respect and curtesy and they DO have to tell us when they're going to drop a popular app as Muse.  And I will move on to other tools... Adobe gives me no choice.  Believe me, you are in the minority on this. 

[ALsp]

I sympathize and empathize with you. Adobe is not kind to its customers and I think this is what this is about. The only thing I can squeeze out of the Adobe experts (ACPs) who have responded is that it probably does make sense for any web designer to learn the fundamentals of markup and CSS... if for anything, so that Adobe can never do this to you again.

[Nancy OShea]

ALsp  wrote

...it probably does make sense for any web designer to learn the fundamentals of markup and CSS... if for anything, so that Adobe can never do this to you again.

Exactly.   Or anybody else for that matter.

Proprietary file types that only work in XYZ product make you a prisoner to that product for the life of the site or until XYZ product goes out of development.    It's a losing battle for non-coders who may find themselves in exactly the same place a few years from now.   Whereas learning native web technologies frees you from that vicious cycle because code can be maintained in any code editor. 

[Koboltart]

I am a no-coder, just Graphic Designer, so I am desperately looking for a replacement for Muse. I stumbled over MWuse and MuseXpress that is said to convert existing Muse sites to WordPress so that editing can be done in WP. I am beginning to realize that I have to drop my webdesign ambitions, after having produced a few sites for various clients, and turn to people who can code to produce whatever web projects that come my way. Converting Muse sites to WP could be one solution for me to do the design and then let someone else take over the tweaking and coding. Any thoughts or experience on this?

[atillahun]

I have done lots of research and from my conclusions there are no true alternatives to Muse, the real problem being its pretty unique,

I also looked at Wordpress as place to work from and eventually purchased Pinegrow with the Wordpress add-on. I also purchased their Wordpress starter template. I should add that with Pinegrow you do need some coding knowledge..

I added Wordpress as a local installation on my Mac, so I could easily experiment and one of the options I tried was MWuse. I spent an hour or two playing with this plugin, which at first glance appears to convert a Muse site to Wordpress. I say at first glance because my single page site came up near perfectly and became the home page of the Wordpress site, too good to be true I thought, and it was. It did not create a Wordpress theme simply a front end. In other words nothing was editable from within Wordpress. Wordpress requires a very specific architecture, so the Muse site would need to be built to accommodate this. There is another company that shows you how to go about this

https://responsive-muse.com/wordpress-converter-documentation/

I know many don't want anything to do with coding, but it don't half help knowing some. As an experiment I created a single page very simple site in Muse then recreated it using Pinegrow. My single css file created in Pinegrow file contained 800 characters, the Muse site created three css files with a total of 12,941 characters, plus some Javascript files, which you don't need for simple sites. I state characters as the messy Muse files don't create lines just a solid block of code. This is why it is near impossible to work on a Muse site without using Muse, which guarantees problems into the future especially if you don't want to carry on with creative cloud or the code just needs updating to keep the site working in the future. A fairly simple procedure on a well coded  site.

[dannygarber]

I understand the suggestions and the good sense about learning code. Major point is the overwhelming majority of designers and artists are NOT software engineers. We rely on software to create. For those that chose Muse, they put their dollars, time, creativity and trust in a product. Is it the responsibility of the user to make sure their software produced by a major international company is compliant to ever-changing web standards? No. Why haven't/didn't Adobe engineers/programmers adapt the program over the course of it's existence? I see it with other Adobe products (Illustrator is a big one). Is it complacency? If you don't have a choice and have to buy into the subscription model, what do you do when the rug is pulled out from under you? I did purchase PageMill way back when and just as I was hitting my stride with it, Adobe killed it. For a non-coder, taking away tools of any sort that we've invested time and money into (Fireworks), is a slap in the face.

For those of you that are coders, this is not aimed at you. I've worked with many web designers and when the request arises from one of my clients, I recommend those designers, specialists if you will. I've worked in print design all of my career and in the past 10 or so years I can see the blatant mistakes that web designers and coders make when some of them try to adapt or port their designs for print. Does that mean that those who have invested their careers on coding and back end development should know the ins and outs of print and print production? For me it's been a two way street. Web designers recommend me or companies I have worked for and I/we have reciprocated with web work. I missed out on what I could have done with Muse, as it was/is a unique application, a one-of-a-kind, that enabled non-coders to produce what would otherwise be out of reach to them.

When you put all that trust, money and time into one company that rents you everything and they turn and slice off a major component it is disheartening at the least, and extremely callous business sense. Argue as you may that Adobe is in business to make money and are responsible to shareholders, etc. There are many companies across the spectrum that balance expectation, profits, and value their consumers at the same time.

[JustiBru]

You just have to know Wordpress. You still run into the same issue down the road. If Muse isn’t around, the the Muse products to support the website will age, too.

[JustiBru]

You just have to know Wordpress. You still run into the same issue down the road. If Muse isn’t around, the the Muse products to support the website will age, too.

[DS WildOutWest]

Two alternatives.

1. It is possible to convert Muse sites to WordPress.

2. WebFlow and FlexBox are really strong - in fact, this may be a better solution than Muse.

The Future

Enabling designers to create effective websites without touching much of the code mis a hugely complex technology challenge. I don't believe Adobe really committed to it. (Muse sites are bloated in terms of code and they were very late to solutions for responsive design).  Imagine the parallel in the print world - if we developed brochures by coding in Post Script - it's absurd.  Code belongs in the world of programming, not site design. If the alternative is that simpler sites with no backend computing requirements are largely built on the template services of Wix and the sort, it's equally laughable.

I wonder what the future of Adobe look like if they continue to abandon the difficult challenges. I only use Adobe for photo editing and vector art at this point. Even those apps are ridiculously old and bloated. Interfaces that have barely changed since the 90's... It's just a matter of time before someone kills the cash cow Adobe has been milking.

[tafgraphicsdesign]

If you have ever heard of Muse Themes then you will definitely will want to go to their solution for a web builder. It was built with us in mind. Go to http://wocode.com and check out their brand new web builder called Architect. It is easy to use and does what Muse couldn't...it has native blogging with rss feeds and a built in store that is a white labeled version of ecwid! It works and Steve Harris has done it right for Muse users. SSL is free with all sites....If you have ever heard of Muse Themes then you will definitely will want to go to their solution for a web builder. It was built with us in mind. Go to http://wocode.com and check out their brand new web builder called Architect. It is easy to use and does what Muse couldn't...it has native blogging with rss feeds and a built in store that is a white labeled version of ecwid! It works and Steve Harris has done it right for Muse users. SSL is free with all sites....

[rayek.elfin]

You know, there's a fine line between an informative message mentioning alternatives to Muse and spam. I think you crossed the line here, though. Spam.

[tafgraphicsdesign]

As a long time Muse and Adobe product user I am definitely not SPAM....but if you felt that is what I did I apologize...I just think there are a lot of Adobe folks out there that would like to know about a tool that will allow them to hold onto their web design clients and in fact give them an upgrade. The Muse Themes people are great and have created a great product....I still use all Adobe products...but we have been struggling with BC and Muse for awhile.....

Peace.