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I'm interested to know why Adobe has decided on a subscription based model for Muse (and the next version of Adobe CS?) as this seems to be the way a lot of software products are going?
I imagined Muse as a standalone boxed product rather than software as a service. What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages as far as the end user is concerned?
Muse will be sold only by subscription because it will allow the Muse team to improve the product more quickly and be more responsive to your needs.
Traditionally Adobe builds up a collection of new features over 12, 18 or 24 months, then makes those changes available as a major upgrade. New updates of Muse will be released much more frequently, probably quarterly. New features will be made available when they're ready, not held to be part of an annual or biannual major upgrade. This will enable
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Muse will be sold only by subscription because it will allow the Muse team to improve the product more quickly and be more responsive to your needs.
Traditionally Adobe builds up a collection of new features over 12, 18 or 24 months, then makes those changes available as a major upgrade. New updates of Muse will be released much more frequently, probably quarterly. New features will be made available when they're ready, not held to be part of an annual or biannual major upgrade. This will enable us to stay on top of browser and device compatibility issues and web design trends, as well as enabling us to respond to feature requests and market changes in a much more timely fashion than with a traditional purchase model.
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"Traditionally Adobe builds up a collection of new features over 12, 18 or 24 months, then makes those changes available as a major upgrade. New updates of Muse will be released much more frequently, probably quarterly. New features will be made available when they're ready, not held to be part of an annual or biannual major upgrade. This will enable us to stay on top of browser and device compatibility issues and web design trends, as well as enabling us to respond to feature requests and market changes in a much more timely fashion than with a traditional purchase model."
This is total BS. This is an out right money grab. Muse (and egde) should be part of the master collection at a min and most feel it should be part of web premium also. once any major release is out, there is nothing to prevent the muse team from putting out dot releases every month if they want to. So the idea that they have to have a subscription model in order to keep it current is just not true. I have a small freelance shop and we currently use master collection seats and update them regularly. we will not be updating CS5.5 MC until adobe includes muse and edge. Everyone knows that flash is on the way out and html5 is the furture and Adobe is just trying to force us into the lame subscription model it came up with that offers the user nothing but permanent addiction. Sunscription models in an of themselves aren't all bad but this one is a no win for the end user. We use 3dmax here also and do use the 3dmax subscription model, it's about $500 a year and provides us with constantly updated version of 3dmax with new features avaliable thoughtout the year and a major update on disk about every 12-18 mo. But the BIG difference is, 1 they ship us disk with all the major updates, lastest releases and 2, if at any time we decided not to renew the subscription we still own and can use what we have. The big problem with the adobe subscription model is; 1 say you subscribe for a couple of years, then you decide you don't want to subscribe any longer, then youv'e got ZIP, nada, and none of your current projects will open in your older software. 2 After getting everyone "hooked" on the subscription model you can't leave without losing everything, and adobe knowing this has less of an incentive to provide more an better updates and just starts putting that money in their pockets. This Model is a VERY bad idea from day one. If they want to sell me a subscription similar the the 3dmax model I would entertain that idea, but the MASTER collection should included EVERYTHING period.
Joel
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Exaxtly what I said!
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So because Adobe can't balance money, you have to tax us by using a BS excuse of update frequency... really??? For the short time it was avail. as a beta I didn't see tons of updates. As a loyal adobe customer for years, I think this new biz model is by far the WORST idea I have ever seen Adobe do. The next was killing GoLive, but that's another issue. It's painfully obvious that all of us are not going to purchase this program with these kind of buying options, so why don't you LISTEN to your CUSTOMERS? You do realize the longer you ignore customers, the more chance you will have to loose them to other options, which will soon be built by some college kid who has passion and cares to LISTEN.
In closing, if money is the issue here, then put a price on muse that is high enough that you can pay your developers to keep updating the software, charge a small fee for updates and make the price low enough that the consumers are happy. I can't believe leadership there lacks the ability to understand basic business fundamentials!!!!
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M - MOST
U - USELESS
S - SOFTWARE
E - ECONOMICALLY
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7thheavengtr wrote:
M - MOST
U - USELESS
S - SOFTWARE
E - ECONOMICALLY
I don't think you were supposed to "leak" the real name.
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Clearly, it's obvious that loyal Adobe customers are NOT happy with the business model of Muse (the Cloud). "It will allow the Muse team to improve the product more quickly and be more responsive to your needs" is total BS. Why insult our intelligence?...we're not idiots. Adobe wants continuous cash-flow through a subscription...it's ONLY about the money. There are tons of decent alternatives to Adobe software available nowadays that don't require a subscription...maybe you should consider listening to our complaints BEFORE you lose our loyalty?
...just sayin'.
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The problem with this model is that customers do not really have control over their own work. This is new for any Adobe product.
Because Muse is not designed to work with other web design programs (such as Dreamweaver) a Muse user will only be able to edit and build upon their own creation if they pay Adobe to continue to use the Muse HTML generator.
It is a terrific lock-in that really only benefits Adobe.
(cough... are not read-only FAQs ideal?)
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I agree, subscription is not a very trusting way for designers and artists to control their work. Sorry Adobe, I feel you're sliding on this one.
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Actually this is not a good model at all. It is purely a marketing "ruse" by Adobe to ensure a steady income stream. Updates and patches have worked just fine and still continue to. So to say "New updates of Muse will be released much more frequently, probably quarterly. New features will be made available when they're ready, not held to be part of an annual or biannual major upgrade" is pure nonsense. I have been using GoLive (and still continue to use it) since it first came out. It works perfectly well under Win7 VM. That is over 5 versions which translates to $1000 in upgrads saved on my end. Over the years Adobe has gotten paranoid and greedy (to say the least). Proof of this? Their new policy of upgrade qualifications. The new policy and direction of "Cloud" is absolute nonsense and purely a way to control the way you work even more. Adobe needs allow their customers to decide which version is best for them and when to upgrade. Their prices are high enough. Let's see... How about if Apple and Microsoft do away with "boxed versions" and make every one subscribe to their OS. Would you like that? I think not. Leave the choice to the people and offer all your software as stand alone products. This Cloud stuff is pure nonsense.
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Oh, and one other thing. I have Muse downloaded on my computer right now as a stand alone program. So tell me again... Why is it Cloud only? Hmmmm
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What Adobe is doing is conditioning the "youth" of the business not to expect a "boxed" version that they can use for however long they want (a.k.a. skip the rediculous yearly "upgrades" which contain minimal improvements). I expect and demand that if I am paying top dollar of hard earned money for a product, I will choose if and when I will upgrade or subscribe. It's bad enough we were forced to trash a good amount of perfectly fine hardware and software to upgrade to Win7. Now Adobe is going to make us their software slaves? I don't think so. Imagine car dealerships not selling but only leasing cars!
We need to stop this preposterous practice dead in it's tracks by people speaking out (and not purchasing "subscriptions") before it's too late.
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If this is true that I need to pay again for a software to make an update a year later... I'm out! next step, uninstall Muse.
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Subscription based Muse is a bad idea. If you cannot purchase it as a stand alone product, use another product.
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This is an off-shoot musing / rant derived from my current inability to purchase the Month-to-Month sub for Muse and a boxed copy of Illsutrator CS6 [just keep getting a system error at the Checkout stage], but it allowed me to look at the Year sub against the Month-to-Month one. It made me realise, what's the difference between the two when both are set to auto-rew [very ugly business practice I think] anyway?
I mean. I know I can turn it off for the Month-to-Month deal, if I so please, but I don't know why I should have to from the offset.
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I'm advising my 1000+ seat establishment not to get involved with Muse until at least version 2, which is likely at least 18 months away, Adobe are being hopelessly unrealistic by releasing it commercially in the state it's currently in. You think these forums are bad now, wait until Joe Public gets their hands on it and can't figure out why 1) a lot of stuff doesn't work or is buggy, and 2) why basic common-sense features (align/distribute panel, layers/z-order panel, @font-face) aren't implemented.
But for those complaining about the subscription model, the majority of Adobe's clients are corporate organisations like mine or larger, and the subscription model actually makes a lot of sense to a purchasing manager that answers to a board and CFO. Adobe doesn't care about the opinions of individuals, to them you are like ants.
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That's an interesting and self-conflicting point of view. Adobe is truly selling to ants. Muse and Business Catalyst are aimed at the SMB market, not large corporations.
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Its pretty obvious that most major software developers are eventually going in this direction because of piracy.
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I really don't see "piracy" being the driving issue here. With adobe's subscription model you still download and install the software and run it locally, it's just constantly phoning home to check your subscription status (basically the same process it does now to check your license "activation", only more often) so it's still there for a pirate to "crack" etc so I don't see it effecting pirates at all. While there is a lot of pirated software out there and people that use pirated software, the number of pirate software users that would actualy go out and buy the software if they couldn't get it pirated is not that significant compared to total sales. The issue here is an additional money grab from honest users pure and simple and a slap in the face to current CS collection owners.
Joel
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Here's one more issue with subscriptions:
From the license we claim to have read before running the software:
1.5 Adobe may change the Terms at its sole discretion. If we change the Terms, then we will make a new copy available at http://www.adobe.com/go/terms. Your use of the Services is subject to the most current version of the Terms at the time of such use.
Statements like this are often accompanied by some allowance for the other party to opt out of the new terms, although often by voiding/cancelling the service contract. Adobe is not saying that they will alert us when they change terms.
Adobe can't really change terms on traditional perpetually-licensed "boxed" software. Those terms are set once when we buy the box. As subscribers, we get no guarantees what the future holds. If we find the changed terms to be disagreeable, we can simply discontinue our subscription and be left with MUSE files that we can no longer open/edit. That is a terrible way to lose control of our creations.
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You are fooling us. Now I can not buy Muse, I have to pay each month and I have to pay more if I dont want it in english. Hey, wake up Adobe. For years we buy and work with adobe. We feel cheated with the new politics. In Switzerland, like a lot of countries, because of restricted licences, I have to work with a CS in german, I am francophone in the german part of Switzerland, I am not allowed to switch the language, with a multiple licence, all have to speak the same language, here, everything is mixed, I write many times, I call many times, each time I am in front of a bureaucraty, in a labyrinth of understanding. Pay and shut up!
What do you think about that, am I alone or what?
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No ocolere, you are surely not alone. We just need to keep making noise about this to bring to light what is actually happening here. It's a shame that Adobe feels the need to "take hostages" to get what they want. Tell your friends to post their displeasure. Unfortunately the only thing that Adobe understands now is the almighty "greenback". They have lost their sense of artistic community and common sense and are purely a bureaucratic establishment now. It's a shame to see what they have become from what they were.
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This was a bad decision by Adobe... There are products out there that are just as easy to use and a lot cheaper. No body cares about how fast you can develop features that are all ready on stand alone products. Stop trying to justify a reason to milk customers dry. Disappointed to say the least. $179.00 a year vs $99.00 one time shot from another great web design product (no names) but I will stick with that software program.
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I would love to know that $99 program that matches muse. I don't think adobe would mind . If you won't post it here...email me please.