Why is Muse sold by subscription only?

[Adobe_Muse_FAQ]

I'm interested to know why Adobe has decided on a subscription based model for Muse (and the next version of Adobe CS?) as this seems to be the way a lot of software products are going?

I imagined Muse as a standalone boxed product rather than software as a service. What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages as far as the end user is concerned?

[DAndrews1969]

If I go along the subscription path for Muse, If I later choose to upgrade to the full Creative Cloud, will my muse subscription be incorporated in the payment I make for CC or will I receive two charges a month?

[e.reed.rogers]

I would seriously re consider a subscription at this point. Here's why:

I am working on 3 new/updated sites for my businiesses. I completed and posted one site. It used simple navigation (by simple I mean one top nav menu with no dropdowns) and I am very pleased with it. Once I had a solidified outline it took me less than a day to complete it.

Upon building my second (and most important) site I ran across a "deal breaking" bug:

When you use iframe to embed .swf content, any menu (in my case dropdown with multiple links) is obscured by that iframe content. In my case this means that 3/4 of my dropdown menu is covered, thus rendering it un-viewable by clients using Chrome and IE. I tried everything. Chatting with Adobe, googling... nothing works. I researched and  tried inserting "wmode" value="transparent" at the end of the url in the iframe with no luck at all.

Adobe is quite aware of this issue. What gets me is they are marketing this software as  "Design and publish unique HTML pages that adhere to the latest web standards without writing code..." and I have to search high and low (with no luck) for code to insert to get the site to display properly in 2 major browsers?!!! That is what you (I have not subscribed yet) are paying for. It to actually work!!! Sure I could redesign the page(s) but that would ruin the aesthetics of the page(s) and I shouldn't have to.

How can I post a site where the navigation is inaccessbile by the client using Chrome or IE?  Firefox is reportedly fine according to Adobe Chat.

I truely think MUSE has the potential to be a great program, however simple things like described above make it almost unusable for anthing but a simple site with simple navigation. Adobe needs to seriously get their act together especially if they are asking the end user to subscribe to a product that is incomplete.

[Zak_Williamson__Adobe_]

rogersphoto.com, I wasn't able to find a thread here on the forum where you asked about wmode=transparent?

If it's specified correctly in the embedded HTML then other content can appear both on top and behind the Flash (or other browser plug-in drawn content).

One example of where the wmode="transparent" needs to be places can be seen by placing a SWF in Muse and then exporting the HTML and looking at it. For a SWF placed in Muse, Muse automatically generates the correct wmode settings.

Here's what it looks like for a placed SWF. Exactly where it needs to go and how it would appear for HTML from an arbitrary source would depend on the specific HTML. It's possible the source for the embedded HTML doesn't support wmode="transparent" (in which case the layering of content on a page for something like a submenu wouldn't work with it regardless of whether you're using Muse or hand-coding):

<object classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" width="100" height="100" id="u184_media">

      <param name="movie" value="images/redcircles.swf">

      <param name="quality" value="high">

      <param name="swfversion" value="6.0.65.0">

      <param name="wmode" value="transparent">

      <param name="expressinstall" value="Scripts/expressInstall.swf">

      <object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="images/redcircles.swf" width="100" height="100">

       <param name="quality" value="high">

       <param name="swfversion" value="6.0.65.0">

       <param name="wmode" value="transparent">

       <param name="expressinstall" value="Scripts/expressInstall.swf">

       <div>

        <h4>Content on this page requires a newer version of Adobe Flash Player.</h4>

        <p><a href="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer"><img src="http://www.adobe.com/images/shared/download_buttons/get_flash_player.gif" alt="Get Adobe Flash player" width="112" height="33"></a></p>

       </div>

      </object>

     </object>

[e.reed.rogers]

Zak,

Thanks for the reply. I think I may have not phrased my frustrations about swf content embedded in muse not correctly displaying and completely misunderstood the "wmode=transparent" thing.

The code below is what I have embedded (cut & pasted) into muse according to muse instructions:

<iframe  style="width:1000px;height:900px"  src="http://www.rogersphoto.com/engagement-gallery/index.html?wmode=transparent"  seamless="seamless" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true"></iframe>

Now the actual gallery appears just fine in all browsers however there is no way (that I can find) to have my dropdown menus appear on top of that content. As you can see I have (wrongly?) placed the "wmode=transparent" in the iframe after the url.

I don't design anything using "flash" as I don't need to therefore my flash vocabulary is quite limited. And although I am not a coder (I am a photographer) I can understand enough html to tweak anything that need to be tweaked.

My absolute MUSE problem is the fact that when: I place embed an iframe containing .swf such as the one above, MUSE will not write the correct code to have my meunus be on top of the content!

Curiously I do not have this problem at all when I embed an .mp4 from say "Animoto.com" In this case the menus appear as they should; On top of the content.

I would really appreciate guidance on how to correct this as I would love to be able to incorporate muse into my work flow (despite the absolutely horrible, dictatorial, Adobe subscription policy).

After all, Adobe advertises MUSE as Code Free web design and want's users to subscribe for that "privlidge". Shouldn't they live up to their claims?  And if Adobe can't get it right or at least fix this bug with all their resources and (subscription) $$ how am I supposed to? It's like driving a car with the visor stuck down (you can only see half the road in front of you). Can you help me put the visor up please?!!!

Email me or post here. I just need a fix!

Thanks

[jdhughen]

Don't do it, don't be tempted by the dark side. It's a slippery path from which there is no return.

Joel

[e.reed.rogers]

[Zak_Williamson__Adobe_]

I believe you'd want to contact Adobe Customer Support in order to cancel your Muse subscription, at which point your Creative Cloud Subscription would enable you to continue using Muse.

[Tukaine684]

Just get rid of that dam subscription model and let us have the product for a one time fee. Just imagine you subscribed to build one website, your own... buy year 4, how much money would you have spent? Not worth it now was it... YOU LOSE, ADOBE WINS...

[DKMuse]

Hey I have an idea for people that dont want a subscription...DONT USE IT THEN!! whoa..mind blowing solution huh?!

[Tukaine684]

[ post removed by forum host - offensive language is not permitted ]

[MikeV1234]

You know maybe they want Muse and Edge to be subscription based to root out all of the "Do-it-yourself" types that are too cheap to pay a professional.

Also, if web design is too easy it will cheapen the trade and make it too competitive.

I recently sold an asphalt business I had for 11 years to start building websites which I have been playing with for about 3 years. There is nothing worse than trying to run a good business in a cut throat industry.

[DKMuse]

Eeks Mike then you might have picked the wrong change in profession. Everything on the internet now a days is a cut throat business. Everything you can do there are a million other people that can do the same, cheaper, faster and with a smile on there face and they are just a click away. This sort of software won't change the way websites are made right now. It's just a product to allow more people to get online. The internet has been around for 20 some years and I am surprised that traditional websites are still made the same way to be honest.

[e.reed.rogers]

Everything is a cut throat business period. Not just the iNet.  I have been a professional photographers for 20 years and when the economy tanked EVERYONE and their Uncle picked up a camera and said they were a pro. I venture to guess there are more "photographers" out there than lawyers!

Anyway, if have more than one website you are hosting ((I have 3) and point the domains to your free hosting on BC then using the Cloud services is a no brainer just based on the fact that hosting of 10 sites is included. Throw in all the Adobe software and then, well, you do the math. It does make sense.  But, if you aren't going to switch servers/hosts then that is a different story.

I do disagree with not offering all the products as "boxed" or subscriptoin based. That's just Adobe's way of holding you hostage and it is a dispicapable business practice.

You have the choice not to subscribe (and learn to code) if you are so upset. But I dare you to find a piece of software like MUSE that makes it so easy (albieit frustrating with the bugs). I tried and fell short. Let me know.

If Adobe was really smart, they would offer a choice on all their products as it would not cost them one additional red cent. But their Adobe... Enough said

[DKMuse]

rogers actually there are a few solutions like Muse that are a one time fee type deal. Sitegrinder 3 is the best most feature rich solution but it does require you to have and know photoshop. It also has quite a few bugs which is common when dealing with code generation and browser compatiblity, however what Sitegrinder does not have is the constant updates to there software that Adobe can push out because of the sub fees. They also don't have the resources and big teams like Adobe has. 

I am also sceptical about SaS products but no one makes prodcuts quite like Adobe no matter who wants to complain about it. With the fees means faster conent upgrades and bug fixes without more added upgrade fees etc. If someone wants to complain about $15 a month and would rather a Adobe premium price tag..they are just complaining that they can't download it for free . I also love the people saying "well its expensive if I only want to make one site". Actually no it isn't, developers charge a heck of a lot more to update your site 2 a month.

What Adobe needs to do is educate the public or none web savvy folk about the actual costs of having a site developed and updated by the big guys compared to the low cost of renting Muse.

$15 a month for Muse and $6 a month for my web host and I can make and host as many sites as I want? One site and it pays for itself for like 10 years.

[buccigraphic]

its not $99, but its a fine program - http://www.softpress.com/products/freeway-express.html

[e.reed.rogers]

buccigraphic wrote:

its not $99, but its a fine program - http://www.softpress.com/products/freeway-express.html

Thanks a bunch for that but, oh noooo, it's only for mac and I'm a PC. Shoot, it looked promising too!

My farewell to MUSE:

Oh well, after great deliberation, angst, trepidation and just plain, outright disgust and anger, I have abandoned my MUSE.  I have been using it since the beta and now my trial has only 9 days left. It looked exactly like what I was looking for, especially ease of use.  I designed 1 complete simple site which is now live and am 3/4 done with my main business site. But it has too many bugs. My main disgust is with Master page menus being covered up by embedded content. I can't have my drop downs being obscured by content which should fall below it. I mean come on Adobe, really?!!!  No spell checker is a minor annoyance.  No way to edit the code to tweak it is annoying too. Adobe should have just kept improving and modernizing GoLive which is exactly what I am going back to using (GoLive6). Granted it is running virtually which is annoying, but nowhere near as annoying as MUSE is now. Heck, I already own it and don't have to worry about not being able to edit my site if I decide to stop subscribing or if Adobe decides to pull the plug.

Adobe just doesn't get it do they?! Subscription based software should be an alternative to "boxed" software. Not a dictatorial tool. You can't hold people software hostages. Unless Adobe wises up and offers MUSES as a non subscription "boxed" option I will never go back. Did I mention the bugs and subscription only model?

It is my hope that enough people see the light and exactly what ADOBE is doing here and JUST SAY NO, to this abhorent practice. Force them to do what is right.  Shame on you Adobe.

[e.reed.rogers]

Update: Well after exhaustively crunching numbers and actually using Muse for a while now, I have to eat some of my words: Since I have 3 sites which cost me XXX dollars a year for the hosting and the Adobe Cloud will cost me XXX dollars a year which includes site hosting, Muse and all of the Adobe products, Adobe wins by a mile. It's just good business economics period (for me).

Muse is a very powerful program once you make "friends" with it. Yes there are a few annoying bugs but they can, for the most part, be worked around until they are fixed. Since, for now, Adobe actually is improving the features and usability of Muse it's a fantastic program and the easiest to use of any of it's kind. Only time will tell if Adobe will run with the ball or drop it.

[jdhughen]

Unfortunately it doesn't make good business sense for many others. especially those that have already invested in suite seats. And the fact that you will be a slave to what ever adobe want to do or charge you cause if you stop your subscription for ANY reason to got NOTHING, NADA and are DOA.

Any way you look at it it's a bad deal for current suite OWNERS.

Joel

[cre8tivefocus]

As an Adobe user for the last 20 years I have watched them become more and more greedy....they buy up perfectly good software, and either completely destroy its usability or kill it...they have turned the design software market into a monopoly we with very very little other options than their software. I want control over my software...I want to be able to NOT upgrade if I don't want to - some of my printers are 2-3 versions back for their equipment...and I do minimal web work and I really like Muse and if it was "box" copy I would snap it up, but I can't see paying a subscritpion fee every month in perpitude to do my website and maybe 1 more a year! Love the software HATE subscriptions...so Adobe...why alienate your market?? basically your just saying we arent doing free patches now you have to pay for everything...and I thought Microsoft was the devil...Adober I think you have knocked them off the throne.

Customers should react as users of Netflix did...revolt...refuse...they change their minds really quick when things start effecting their bottom line and they get bad press.

[MikeV1234]

I'm paying the $15/month right now but I'll be cancelling soon.

What if stock market crashes and Adobe goes bancrupt???

I still have disks for my other programs, not depending on someone else for 100s of websites is important to any real designer.

[e.reed.rogers]

Very good point Mike! Or how about if Adobe get's acquired/taken over and the new owners decide to discontinue? What then? Your site(s) is useless! I can't think of one logical and supportable reason why Adobe will not sell this software outside of greed. It's a dictatorial policy unbecomming of a reputable company. They didn't even try to "package" this software for sale.

[cre8tivefocus]

and their big reasoning is that they want to have updates every few months....well that is fine...I get updates every few months with lots of apps and Mac OS....they are all FREE...maybe do packages of extras that can be added on for a small cost....not main features some of which are still missing...like say lists!! but say you add more widgets you could release a widget pack for $15 or something...I would much rather pay a fee like that to get some new useful addons if I wanted them...but knowing that I have the software as my own w/o a subscription. PLEASE Adobe....you finally got something close to what probably a lot of designers like me whos eyes roll back in their head when they look at code can actually get excited about...I think your shooting yourself in the foot by alienating all the would be potential users w/ this stupid subscription scheme

[topelovely]

The CEO  has spoken read:

Narayen, speaking at the Robert Baird Growth Stock Conference Tuesday, outlined Adobe’s transition to become a cloud company. He said that the Creative Cloud showed it could bring in new customers in a pilot in Australia. He expects the Creative Cloud—a Web-based roll up of Creative Suite 6—will bring in new customers and diminish piracy.

He said:

We have taken a very measured approach. We will offer perpetual (licensing) in order to enable people to experience the Creative Cloud offering and get comfortable with the amount of innovation that is happening.

So unlike other companies who have had to make business transformations, you can think of this as an augmentation of the business model rather than a complete left shift. So I think that could give you as investors and us comfort that we are doing this in a measured way.

We do think that the Creative Cloud with the new offerings that we have is certainly going to be long-term the preferred way, both for Adobe as well as for our customers.

What we tell investors is, if you believe that everybody is going to stay on the perpetual model, then you can look at CS6, which we think is one of the strongest releases we have released in a long time; and you should get comfort from the fact that people are going to want to upgrade to the new version. If you believe that the subscription offering is going to be a more compelling offering, then what that means is that over time we are certainly making our business more sticky. And we are attracting customers to our platform.

We can now all see where all the subscription stuff is coming from and where it might be heading to.

[cre8tivefocus]

hmm you have to wonder what the "attracting new customers" is...because honestly if you are an artist, designer, web developer or photographer how are you not using adobe products somewhere? if they showed an increase you have to wonder if it was people who needed it for a specific purpose...say they had a big project and hired 5 contract workers...they license CS so those contract workers can use it in the office on their rented computers...and then at the end they just stop their subscription....that is what I see as the usefulness of the whole subscription model...letting smaller businesses use contract or freelance people and not have to pay for a whole new CS....

The whole "Cloud" thing might be great for large places that do a lot of sharing....but its useless to those of us who are 1 person studios...I don't share my stuff...I don't need asset available everywhere...there should be extra offerings like a Cloud package for companies that do work that way...I have never used Adobe Bridge or any of the other "sharing" management bits already in CS...Cloud will do nothing to improve my user experience....and anyway what happens when your on a deadline at 3am and ur internet goes down because your service provider is doing work on the lines OR Adobe servers go down and you need sometihng from your cloud....yea...I don't want to be relying that heavily on an internet connection to do my work....

The whole piracy issue is just a nice excuse...they ran the numbers on a subscription service and saw that they can basically hold their customers hostage....I know I ran the numbers and it was way more expensive for me....which means they are making more. I have talked to a lot of colleagues and other designers and they all feel the same...Adobe is being greedy not innovative.

[e.reed.rogers]

I just downloaded Joomla (Adobe will probably edit or delete this) and it looks like a nice, FREE and somewhat easy alternative to Muse with quite a few free "plugins" too.  I happened across this on somebody elses site and it looked nice and clean.

Best of all, you actually get to download the software package and don't have to worry about a subscription and loosing the ability to edit your site if you choose not to subscribe anymore!

If Photoshop ever goes the way of total subscription I will go back to using Corel Photo Paint which is what I used decades ago (It was an awesome program).