Had two hard drives and one crashed losing those photos

Report · Dec 25, 2024

Hello community, I'm needing some help. Years ago I had two dedicated hard drives for my photos. One of them crashed leaving the photos it held gone forever. I have since upgraded my backup work flow. I recently found an old shoe box that had a backup of my catalogs over the years and I believe some of my lost images will be found on these burned DVD's. Problem is, I don't know what to do to get them back. I use APE 2022. Do I go to "Restore Cataglog"? I don't want to loose what I currently have as it's been years of new photos being added to my catalog since the loss of that drive. I haven't found a good solution in the community discussions and hoping someone can help talk me through this.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

Unless you did a complete backup (pictures and catalogues) you are out of luck. If you didn't do a complete backup all you would have are the catalogues which are 100% useless without the images.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

I did the complete backup.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

I should also state that over the years I have upgraded to new versions of PSE, I have replaced my computer twice (thus a couple of hard drives later), and I have moved images from being stored on my C drive and external hard drives (that have failed and froze) over to a Disk Station where everything I have is now secure. Also, over the years I went from using multiple Catalogs to one catalog (called My Catalog). I do have another Catalog inside of PSE 2021 called 'My Catalog 1 old version'. I'm not sure if I did the full back up while using this Catalog or some other Catalog now no longer there. I feel confident working inside of 'My Catalog' but I don't know what to do with 'My Catalog 1 old version' and furthermore don't know if I should be trying to access the Full Catalog Restore DVD's that I believe might hold some of the images I lost years ago. Or maybe I need to create a new Catalog to restore these DVD's to? I don't know if that is even a possibility. I just don't want to mess anything up and I clearly don't understand the complexity of the PSE program I'm using. If anyone knows how to help me, I will really need a step by step of what I should do. Thank you to whoever might be able to help me.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

I don't know if this information is of any use to you, but if you still have the hard drive that crashed, there are a number of services that can probably retrieve the photos from the damaged drive. They can be expensive. Twenty years ago, I had a drive that crashed during a power outage, and it contained my daughter's engagement and some wedding photos. The drive was probably only about 500GB and it cost a couple of hundred dollars to retrieve the photos. But the service was successful. Since then, I have made sure to have a UPS battery backup for my computer and backup copies of my photos on multiple internal and external drives.

Now, to deal with your current situation, you say that you have a full backup of your catalog (with photos). You can restore this backup using the procedures found in this HelpX article. You should probably use the third option listed (restore to new location with original folder structure). If possible, you should restore to an external drive or to a different internal drive than your photos are currently stored on. Then, once the photos are restored, you can bulk import them into your existing catalog. Elements should not import duplicates of photos already in your catalog.

I hope your DVD backups are properly labeled (and still work). It has been many years since I did an optical disc backup and restore, but I seem to recall a need to insert the discs in a proper order.

You should use your current version of Elements to perform the restoration of the catalog. If the catalog was backed up on a prior version, it will be converted to the current version.

As for the My Catalog/My Catalog 1 issue, the second catalog was probably created as a copy of the first when you updated to a new version of Elements at some point in the past. Or it could have been created when you went from multiple catalogs to one.

One final thought about retrieving the lost photos: If your old catalog contained the lost photos, you may be able to display the lost images in Single Image View and take a screenshot of the thumbnail preview. It will be low resolution, but depending on the importance of the lost photos, it may be worth a shot.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

Greg, I still have the crashed drive and would love to try a service to retrieve the photos. If you have any you could recommend, I would grately appreciate it.

Thank you for your reply! This give me hope! Would you recommend I create a new catalog before beginning this process? I would then have 3 catalogs which is fine but just checking if I should proceed with a fresh catalog? And to be sure I'm at the right stop, is the below image pointing to where I should begin?

If this works for me, my next step according to what you have above is to bulk import them into my existing catalog. Is there something online that takes me through this process?

If this all works, the second catalog will not be of importance to me. I've only kept it in case I can ever retrieve these files. I appreciate your final thoughts on if my old catalog contains thumbnail previews. I will certainly consider this! I am so hopeful! Thank you for your reply!

Report · Dec 26, 2024

I don't have any recommendations for a disk restoration service. It has been many years since I used such a service. I'm sure a Google search will retrieve many.

Yes, I think you are starting at the right place.

There is no need to create a new catalog for the restoration of your backup. The backup will restore a copy of your old catalog in its condition at the time it was backed up. However, it would be good idea to backup your current catalog in its present state. It will be useful if something goes astray when you do the bulk import from the restored catalog.

Once you restore the backup, perhaps you will be able to tell which folders contain the missing files. For example, if you have your folders organized by date or some other scheme. If so, it will be relatively easy to import the missing photos into your current catalog. Let me know, and I will walk you through the process.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

I work on searching up a service, thank you.

Just to be sure, restoring this old DVD backup (it's probably 8 years old) into my existing 'My Catalog' of over 300k images isn't going to overwrite the work I've done over the past years or bring my current 'My Catalog' back to a state of 2015? I do organize by date.

I will get a back up of my current catalog started.

Report · Dec 26, 2024

Nothing will be overwritten if you select a new location for the restored catalog. The restored catalog will be entirely separate from your current catalog. The purpose for restoring the catalog is to get back your lost photos. They will be stored in a new location and can be imported into your latest catalog. If you were to restore the backup to the current default location, the restored catalog will get a new name such as My Catalog 2, I believe.

Since you have such a large current catalog, I'm going to suggest that you use WIndows File Explorer to copy the catalog folder and your photos rather than using the Elements Backup feature. The Elements backup is extremely slow. If you are going to "backup" to an external drive, then I am also going to recommend that you zip the folder before copying the zipped folder to another drive. In my experience, this will shorten the time for copying the folder, even taking into account the time to zip and unzip it. You can find the location of the current catalog folder by going to Help>System Info . . . If you have not moved it, you will probably find the current My Catalog folder in its default location which is:

C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs

Report · Dec 30, 2024

I had started the backup with the Elements Backup feather before receiving your last message but it has since aborted at 7% after 4 days of running, so I will try to do it as you mentioned above instead. I currently have all of my photos on an external drive and my current catalog folder on my hard drive (I've copied my system information below and am wondering if you see anything in the information that I should take note of or clean up). Also, do you recommend I back up my current catalog folder to an external drive since it's currently on my computer's drive? What about my photos? Should I back those up to my computer hard drive since they are already on an external drive? I've not done a zipped folder before. I don't suppose you can walk me through that?

One thing I want to mention since I'll be backing things up differently is that I am not entirely sure if I have all of my photos on my external drive. Some may be on my computer's hard drive. I've always wondered if there is a way to check the photo locations of my files (other than looking at each one individually)?

I've not done a zipped folder before. I don't suppose you can walk me through that? I could look it up on Google too.

Report · Dec 30, 2024

Also, this is what My Catalog and My Catalog 1 Old Version properties look like. Should I copy both?

Report · Jan 31, 2025

Hello, the process of zipping the 'My Catalog' folder from my computer HD, copying it over to my external NAS drive, and unzipping it onto my extral drive has finally completed itself (taking 3 weeks). Now that it's over there, I've been re-reading the next steps. I stopped at this step as I wanted to clarify something here as well as understand some processes better:

1. I'm wondering if what I just spent time doing has moved my entire catalog in case of any issues during this process? Upon exiting PSE22, I occasionally do the "auto backup" of my catalog structure which always pops up when exiting the program. I realize that this does not back up any photos/videos. I have these photos/videos stored on my external HD. I'm wondering if I need to do the FULL BACKUP through the organizer and then re-do what I've just completed doing (which was zipping the catalog file, moving it, and unzipping it)?

2. I found several different catalog files on my computer (.pse20db, .psedb, .pse13db). Is it possible I might be able to retrieve old photos lost from a failed drive from previous catalogs? If it is possible, how do I go about using these .pse files and should they be used in a particular order? Do the different catalog files found all need to be converted?

3. I have images named B000XXX, etc in 'My Catalog'. What did I do wrong in previous RESTORE processes to get these low quality images in 'My Catalog' and is it still possible to find/retrieve the higher quality version of images if they are still on my computer?

4. I've found multiple .tyl files on my computer. I didn't name these well (some I did; others not). I'd like to see if I have photos I've lost from the hard drive fail years ago in any of these .tyl BackUps. Can I do a RESTORE of all these .tyl files? Do they have to be done in a certain order (I have 14 dating back to 2008)?

5. I have a second catalog 'My Catalog 1'. Should I try to do a Backup and RESTORE of this catalog into 'My Catalog' (the one I'm currently using) to see if there are ay missing photos I can retrieve on it ('My Catalog 1')?

6. Can two seperate catalogs in the organizer be merged into one?

Report · Dec 30, 2024

Your last screenshot truncates the full path of the two catalog folders. Can you show a screenshot of the folders in Windows Explorer. It's possible that the old catalog is within the new catalog's folder. If that is the case, you should probably clean that up before proceeding further, although it may not be a big deal. If one folder is within the other, please show screenshots of the contents of each folder.

Before making a backup of your catalog, open the Organizer and select Find>All Missing Files to determine whether any catalog files are missing. If there are any, you must either reconnect them or delete them from the catalog. Otherwise, the backup will almost certainly fail as it did with your first attempt. I als recommend that you Repair and Optimize the catalog in the File>Manage Catalogs dialog. Proceed with these operations even if you get a message that no errors were found.

Your current catalog is very large. It's one of the largest I have ever heard of (and mine is close in number of media files). So any copy operation is going to take a long time. But that is why I suggested zipping the folders before copying them to another drive. Since the zipped copy will be added to the current drive, you have to have enough room on the drive, particularly if it is the system C drive, with at least another 10% of free drive space to spare.

I assume your computer is Windows 11. If it is, there is an easy way to zip the catalog folder. In Windows FIle Explorer, right click on the folder and choose Compress to. . . . from the context menu. A sub-menu will open and you should choose ZIP. A new file will be created which you can rename if youi want to, but that is not necessary. Just make a note of the proposed name so you can find it again. If you don't see the Compress to option shown in my screenshot below, then select the Send To option from the context menu and choose Compressed (zipped) File. (I have other zipping software installed so I'm not sure what the Windows options are.)

I'll be back later to respond to your other questions.

Report · Dec 31, 2024

Below is a screenshot of my Windows folders. I am running Windows 11. I did reconnect all missing files prior to the attempted backup, however I did not to the Repair and Optimize. That has now been completed on "My Catalog". I will run these on the "My Catalog 1 Old Version" next.

Report · Dec 31, 2024

OK. So, your old catalog is in the default location and your current catalog is on the root of the C drive which is fine. Here are my answers to your other questions:

Also, do you recommend I back up my current catalog folder to an external drive since it's currently on my computer's drive?

Yes, I recommend that you make a backup of your current catalog. It is good to have it on a different drive. If you only have one internal drive, an external drive is fine. But this makes the backup slower. Better yet is to have multiple backups, including on an external drive which is always good to have and keep in a different location. An external drive is also necessary to move the catalog between computers.

What about my photos? Should I back those up to my computer hard drive since they are already on an external drive?

A full Elements backup will make a backup of your photos as well as the Catalog folder. Elements 2022 allows you to make a backup of just the catalog, but frankly, as I said earlier, it is faster and easier just to copy the catalog folder using Windows File Explorer. Zipping the folder, when moving it to a different drive, makes the process even faster, in my experience.

One thing I want to mention since I'll be backing things up differently is that I am not entirely sure if I have all of my photos on my external drive. Some may be on my computer's hard drive. I've always wondered if there is a way to check the photo locations of my files (other than looking at each one individually)?

One way would be to look in the My Folders panel.

Make sure you are in Tree View, not List View - click on the hamburger icon next to the My Folders panel heading and check View as Tree.
Right click on each drive or main photos folder where the photos are stored, and choose Show All Sub Folders.
If a folder contains photos, it will have a pictures icon displayed rather than a plain yellow folder. (In my screenshot below, the pictures icon has a couple of faded icons which means that the folder contains only missing files.)

If you have blank folders that contain photos that should be in the catalog, you can right-click on them and select Import Media. This will import any files that are not already in the catalog.

Report · Dec 31, 2024

Greg, first thank you for your continued help. I could not do this alone - you are such a valuable resource in this community!

Ok, this is what I've done: In 'My Catalog' I've reconnected all missing files (there were none). I've repaired and optimized 'My Catalog' (no problems but repaired anyway). I've backed up my program and closed it. I checked my hard drive for enough free space (we're good here) and then went through Windows File Explorer on my hard drive to the Catalogs folder default location (confirmed through Help>System Info) and right clicked on 'My Catalog' folder and told it to create a Zip folder under the "Compress to" option. Once the 'My Catalog Zip' is created, I will copy that file to my external drive (use NAS for this).

Once that file is copied over, I will delete the 'My Catalog Zip' created on my hard drive. I'll then reopen PSE and use my current 2022 version of Elements to perform the restoration of the catalog, working through the prompts of Restoring ‘My Catalog’ to a New Computer via the burned DVDs I found (and in the order they were burned). This procedure found in this HelpX article you provided. I’ll use the third option listed (restore to new location with original folder structure). These DVDs (backed up on a prior version of Elements) will be converted to the current version of Elements. I’m planning to put this on my external drive (NAS). I have all my photos on my NAS and since they’ll be coming off my DVDs, they will be restored to a different location than what they were originally stored on.

When I open Elements 2022, ‘My Catalog’ will open by default and will have all my current files visible and available to me. I will not need to create a new catalog for the restoration of my backup before beginning the Restoring (I hope I have that right that I can work right inside of ‘My Catalog’ for this step), and nothing will be overwritten if I select a new location for the restored catalog (planning on restoring to external NAS). The restored catalog is an entirely separate catalog from my current catalog (‘My Catalog’). The restoration aids my getting back the lost photos. The DVDs will be stored in the new location on the external NAS and can be imported into my latest catalog (‘My Catalog’).

The backup will restore a copy of my old catalog in its condition at the time it was backed up. Once the photos are restored (and I should not have any duplicates imported), I will bulk import them into my existing ‘My Catalog’ (I have a backup of my current ‘My Catalog’ if something goes astray). I still question this part as I don’t fully understand how I will bulk import a catalog that is restoring to the catalog I want to bulk import into. Once I restore the backup, I should be able to identify which folders contain the missing files (I organize by date) and will be able to import these missing photos into my current catalog ‘My Catalog’. Will I somehow do this import via the “Tree View” and if I have blank folders that contain photos that should be in the catalog, I will right-click on them and select Import Media to import any files that are not already in the catalog?

After all of this has been completed and I move the imported files under the date structure I have, I believe I will want to do another backup through Elements to my Program Data’s default location (which, if I understand correctly happens automatically as I close my Elements program and select the backup prompt). If this is all correct and once I’m finished, are there any files I’ve created that can be deleted? Should I be able to delete the new “restored to” location for the backup I created during this process?

Please correct ANY mis-steps I have outlined above. I do not plan to move forward until I’m certain of what I’m about to do. Honestly, makes me very nervous.

Report · Jan 02, 2025

You seem to have a good plan. Here are a few comments:

Once the 'My Catalog Zip' is created, I will copy that file to my external drive (use NAS for this).

I probably failed to mention, that you will also need to Unzip the file once it is copied to your external drive. I believe you can double-click on it and Windows will ask you whether that is what you want to do.

Once that file is copied over, I will delete the 'My Catalog Zip' created on my hard drive.

You will also be able to delete the copied file once it is unzipped on your external drive.

The backup will restore a copy of my old catalog in its condition at the time it was backed up. Once the photos are restored (and I should not have any duplicates imported), I will bulk import them into my existing ‘My Catalog’

I think I may have been in error about this. Because the files are going to be restored to a new directory on a new drive, Elements may not recognize the files as duplicates of the existing catalog files. So, the better way to deal with this is perhaps to experiment by importing a restored folder of photos that you know exist in your current catalog and see what happens. But I now see that your following comments deal with this situation.

I still question this part as I don’t fully understand how I will bulk import a catalog that is restoring to the catalog I want to bulk import into.

You are not merging the catalogs (which cannot be done). You are importing new files into your existing catalog. These files have been copied to your computer via the restoration of the backed up catalog. The fact that these files were in another catalog is not relevant. You can have the same files in many catalogs. But import only takes place with files that are stored on a hard drive (or memory card or camera).

Once I restore the backup, I should be able to identify which folders contain the missing files (I organize by date) and will be able to import these missing photos into my current catalog ‘My Catalog’.

PERFECT!

Will I somehow do this import via the “Tree View” and if I have blank folders that contain photos that should be in the catalog, I will right-click on them and select Import Media to import any files that are not already in the catalog?

This would be one way to do it. But you can only import one folder at a time this way. The other way would be to Import>From Files and Folders and select all of the folders that you want to import, using Shift+ or Ctrl+ Click to select the folders. Then click the Get Media button in the dialog.

Should I be able to delete the new “restored to” location for the backup I created during this process?

Only if you have moved the missing folders or photos to a different location outside of the restored to location. You will be able to see if this is true by looking for only blank folder icons in the My Folders tree view.

I think you have a good handle on what to do and you have no need to worry. The plan has some fail-safes. So nothing should go wrong. My main concern for you is the time all of this is going to take with the size of your catalog. I hope you have an uninterruptible power supply battery. And your computer needs to be well ventilated, because it is going to generate some heat.

Good luck!!

Report · Feb 02, 2025

Here are my responses to your comments and questions:

Hello, the process of zipping the 'My Catalog' folder from my computer HD, copying it over to my external NAS drive, and unzipping it onto my extral drive has finally completed itself (taking 3 weeks).

Copying just the catalog folder should not have taken anywhere close to 3 weeks. Did you copy all the photos too? Please show the hierarchy of the folder that you zipped and copied to your NAS.

1. I'm wondering if what I just spent time doing has moved my entire catalog in case of any issues during this process?

I'm unclear what you have done until I see the hierarchy of what you copied.

Upon exiting PSE22, I occasionally do the "auto backup" of my catalog structure which always pops up when exiting the program. I realize that this does not back up any photos/videos. I have these photos/videos stored on my external HD.

The auto backup backs up only the database files. It does not back up any of your photos. It also does not back up the thumbnail cache file which is used to display your images in the Organizer. This cache file can be very large and takes a lot of time to copy. If an auto backup is retored, these thumbnails are recreated, which can also take a lot of time to do, but you will not lose anything but time if you were forced to use this process. For now, forget about the auto backup.

In future repsponses, please identify the drive letter of where your files are stored. It's unclear to me whether you are referring to your NAS as an external drive or whether you have both a NAS and a external drive(s).

I'm wondering if I need to do the FULL BACKUP through the organizer and then re-do what I've just completed doing (which was zipping the catalog file, moving it, and unzipping it)?

IIRC, the whole point of this exercise was to

A. Restore an old backup to see whether some lost photos could be recovered, and

B. Make sure you have complete backups of your full catalog so that you can easily recover from a failed hard drive.

If you make a full backup, you will have both the photos and catalog to restore. This is different than simply copying the catalog folder.

Personally, I do not use the Organizer's backup facility because it is too slow and prone to error. I therefore, keep copies of the catalog folder on different drives (using the zip/unzip process) to speed the copying. I also copy my photos to different drives and use a utility to keep the photos synced between the drives. I keep the folder structure the same. So, in the event of a hard drive failure, I can simply open the copied catalog and rename the drive letter of the copied photos drive so that the catalog will think they are in the same location as the failed drive. I have just run out of room on my media drive and am waiting for a new much larger drive to be delivered. I will then copy the old photos to the new drive and give that new drive the same drive letter as the old one.

2. I found several different catalog files on my computer (.pse20db, .psedb, .pse13db). Is it possible I might be able to retrieve old photos lost from a failed drive from previous catalogs? If it is possible, how do I go about using these .pse files and should they be used in a particular order? Do the different catalog files found all need to be converted?

The catalog files are presumably within catalog folders. These are the main database files. The number within the file name denotes which version created the catalog. From Elements 2018 to Elements 2023, the numbers skipped the dates. So, in your case, the file catalog.pse20db was created by Elements 2022. The numbers now follow the calendar years.

It is unlikely that these old catalogs will help you find the missing files, since the photos are probably in a different location than when the catalog was in use. But if the full catalog folder is available, you might be able to use the technique I mentioned previously and take a snapshot of the single image view thumbnail of what will be a missing file in the Organizer.

In order to open the catalog, in your current version of the program, go to File>Manage Catalogs and click the Convert button. You will then navigate to the catalog folder and the old catalog should then be listed. Select the catalog and click the Convert button in the navigation dialog. The catalog will be converted to that version and a copy of the old catalog will be saved.

3. I have images named B000XXX, etc in 'My Catalog'. What did I do wrong in previous RESTORE processes to get these low quality images in 'My Catalog' and is it still possible to find/retrieve the higher quality version of images if they are still on my computer?

Files named with a B00 prefix are the backup copies of the original files in the backed up catalogs. If these are old files, perhaps they were not high resolution to begin with.

4. I've found multiple .tyl files on my computer. I didn't name these well (some I did; others not). I'd like to see if I have photos I've lost from the hard drive fail years ago in any of these .tyl BackUps. Can I do a RESTORE of all these .tyl files? Do they have to be done in a certain order (I have 14 dating back to 2008)?

Yes, you can restore every backup you have made to see whether it contains the lost photos. But, make sure that you are not overwriting any files. I think I would start at the latest and work my way backwards. If you always had your photos in a single catalog, any missing photos will be in the backup you created just before the hard drive crash.

5. I have a second catalog 'My Catalog 1'. Should I try to do a Backup and RESTORE of this catalog into 'My Catalog' (the one I'm currently using) to see if there are ay missing photos I can retrieve on it ('My Catalog 1')?

This doesn't make any sense. You should open the My Catalog 1 (using File>Manage Catalogs). If necessary, the catalog will be converted to your current version of Elements. If the lost files show up in the catalog, they will appear as missing (unless the lost files were stored in a second location that Catalog1 is looking at). If the lost files are missing here, there is no point in backing up the catalog to find them.

6. Can two seperate catalogs in the organizer be merged into one?

No.

Report · Feb 03, 2025

1. I agree on the extraordinary amount of time it took! I did NOT copy any of my photos; only the My Catalog folder. Could it be because the zipped folder was being extracted from my external HDD/NAS which I have on another level of my home? Below I have explained better the drive letters I use.

I went to the PSE2022 default location for My Catalog on my internal HDD/C drive and zipped that folder, copied the zipped folder to my external HDD/L drive (I have two external HDD on my NAS that have been set up as redundant drives - I treat the 2 drives as just one External HDD although one is named L and the other M). Below is a hierarachy of my internal HDD/C drive. It still appears this way. I have not deleted anything.

Below is what is inside the unzipped folder I copied over from my internal drive/C drive to my external HDD/NAS

I'm wondering if I need to do the FULL BACKUP through the organizer and then re-do what I've just completed doing (which was zipping the catalog file, moving it, and unzipping it)?

IIRC, the whole point of this exercise was to

A. Restore an old backup to see whether some lost photos could be recovered, and

B. Make sure you have complete backups of your full catalog so that you can easily recover from a failed hard drive.

If you make a full backup, you will have both the photos and catalog to restore. This is different than simply copying the catalog folder.

Personally, I do not use the Organizer's backup facility because it is too slow and prone to error. I therefore, keep copies of the catalog folder on different drives (using the zip/unzip process) to speed the copying. I also copy my photos to different drives and use a utility to keep the photos synced between the drives. I keep the folder structure the same. So, in the event of a hard drive failure, I can simply open the copied catalog and rename the drive letter of the copied photos drive so that the catalog will think they are in the same location as the failed drive. I have just run out of room on my media drive and am waiting for a new much larger drive to be delivered. I will then copy the old photos to the new drive and give that new drive the same drive letter as the old one.

Correct, that is my goal and I was copying over the My Catalog folder from my internal C to my external L in case something went wrong. I have not made a full backup copy of My Catalog for quite some time now. I have also found the Organizer’s backup too slow. I instead have two external drives (L & M) that I have in a NAS. I have L & M set up as redundant drives. I save all of my photos to the external drive L and do the occasional ‘auto backup’ when exiting PSE (which I understand only backs up the database files and is being done to the default location on my internal C drive (I’ve got a copy of that database on my external L drive now after this process). I can access all drives on my computer. I, too, keep my folder structure the same (using Year < Month < Day file structure) and have done the copy and reassign drive letter process.

I have made full backups over the years but since moving my photos onto the external L drive and setting up the redundancy, I have not done a full backup. Should I be doing a full backup so I’ve got both the photos and catalog or keep doing what I’m doing?

2. I found several different catalog files on my computer (.pse20db, .psedb, .pse13db). Is it possible I might be able to retrieve old photos lost from a failed drive from previous catalogs? If it is possible, how do I go about using these .pse files and should they be used in a particular order? Do the different catalog files found all need to be converted?

The catalog files are presumably within catalog folders. These are the main database files. The number within the file name denotes which version created the catalog. From Elements 2018 to Elements 2023, the numbers skipped the dates. So, in your case, the file catalog.pse20db was created by Elements 2022. The numbers now follow the calendar years.

It is unlikely that these old catalogs will help you find the missing files, since the photos are probably in a different location than when the catalog was in use. But if the full catalog folder is available, you might be able to use the technique I mentioned previously and take a snapshot of the single image view thumbnail of what will be a missing file in the Organizer.

In order to open the catalog, in your current version of the program, go to File>Manage Catalogs and click the Convert button. You will then navigate to the catalog folder and the old catalog should then be listed. Select the catalog and click the Convert button in the navigation dialog. The catalog will be converted to that version and a copy of the old catalog will be saved.

Ok, I think I understand what you’re explaining. I’m not quite following what you mean when you say ‘the catalog files are presumably within catalog folders’ – are you saying that each of these .psedb contain only database files? If so, then perhaps these catalog files are no longer pertinent as I have done upgrades over the years and previously converted them (at least I think I have; hard to remember). Is there any harm in re-converting them to check out what you previously mentioned and take snapshots of single images? Guessing that they can then be deleted from my internal C drive or is it important to keep these?

Since I’m wanting to recover the actual images, do I need to get those from the .tly files instead? I have multiples of those on my external HDD/L drive.

3. I have images named B000XXX, etc in 'My Catalog'. What did I do wrong in previous RESTORE processes to get these low quality images in 'My Catalog' and is it still possible to find/retrieve the higher quality version of images if they are still on my computer?

Files named with a B00 prefix are the backup copies of the original files in the backed up catalogs. If these are old files, perhaps they were not high resolution to begin with.

The old files were high resolution files to begin with. Is there a way to get the actual original files back or am I stuck with the backup copies? Are these backup copies what is contained in the .tly files? Can I try to retore the .tly files and would that overwrite these B00 backup copies?

4. I've found multiple .tyl files on my computer. I didn't name these well (some I did; others not). I'd like to see if I have photos I've lost from the hard drive fail years ago in any of these .tyl BackUps. Can I do a RESTORE of all these .tyl files? Do they have to be done in a certain order (I have 14 dating back to 2008)?

Yes, you can restore every backup you have made to see whether it contains the lost photos. But, make sure that you are not overwriting any files. I think I would start at the latest and work my way backwards. If you always had your photos in a single catalog, any missing photos will be in the backup you created just before the hard drive crash.

Ok, and this brings me back to the full circle of what I’m hoping to do to find some of these old files. First, I have had multiple catalogs in the past. That is no longer the case, but in the past, I had several catalogs I worked inside of – found the initial workflow logic to be a nuisance and went back to having it all in one catalog. This is where I get anxious with the PSE program. How do I stay away from overwriting any of the files? You said I can do the restore of these .tyl backups inside my current ‘My Catalog’ and that it will not mess up my current ‘My Catalog’ but recommended I move my database file to an external drive which I did (that was the 3wk process of zipping, moving, and extracting). I’m wondering if I should do some type of full back up or if what I’m doing, as described above, is adequate and won’t cause loss of tags, etc, etc?

5. I have a second catalog 'My Catalog 1'. Should I try to do a Backup and RESTORE of this catalog into 'My Catalog' (the one I'm currently using) to see if there are ay missing photos I can retrieve on it ('My Catalog 1')?

This doesn't make any sense. You should open the My Catalog 1 (using File>Manage Catalogs). If necessary, the catalog will be converted to your current version of Elements. If the lost files show up in the catalog, they will appear as missing (unless the lost files were stored in a second location that Catalog1 is looking at). If the lost files are missing here, there is no point in backing up the catalog to find them.

Should I just delete the ‘My Catalog 1’? Any reason to keep it?

6. Can two seperate catalogs in the organizer be merged into one?

No.

Ok, thank you!

I'm also including a screenshot of my PSE2022 System Information, the old .tyl files and .buc files I've fund on my external L drive in case that helps. I do not have as many .buc files as .tyl files, and I'm guessing that will also be an issue with retriving these lost images?

Report · Feb 03, 2025

So it looks like you have copied just the catalog folder to your external drive(s). This ensures that all your tags and face recognition etc. are backed up. And if you are copying over a wifi connection, this would explain the slow transfer.

Please explain what you mean when you say your L and M drives are set up as redundant drives. Are they set up as a RAID drive? And, if so, what kind of RAID? If this is not a RAID configuration, how are you keeping the drives in sync?

At this point, it seems to me that you have a sufficient backup of your current catalog and photo files. Your focus should now be on trying to find the lost files. You may have copies in the full backups that you have created over the years. So, you should restore the backups you already have, starting with the most recent one created before the hard drive was lost.

When you perform the restore process, create a new folder location for the files to be stored in, e.g Backup Photos folder 1. That way the photos can be stored in a dfferent location than your current catalog and you will avoid confusion. If you find any of the the lost photos in a restored catalog, you can then copy the file to your current photo storage folders and import them into your main catalog from there.

@amyvegte said: I’m not quite following what you mean when you say ‘the catalog files are presumably within catalog folders’ – are you saying that each of these .psedb contain only database files? If so, then perhaps these catalog files are no longer pertinent as I have done upgrades over the years and previously converted them (at least I think I have; hard to remember). Is there any harm in re-converting them to check out what you previously mentioned and take snapshots of single images? Guessing that they can then be deleted from my internal C drive or is it important to keep these?

The catalog.pseXXdb files are the main database files used by the Organizer. They are contained within folders that bear the name of the catalog that created them. (You can change the name of the folder and the catalog's name will be changed.) There are a bunch of other important files within the catalog folder. For the most part, if these other files are missing from the folder, they will be automatically recreated.

There is no harm in re-converting a catalog that has been upgraded previously. However, if the catalog has been previously converted by the current version's Organizer, you will need to check a box that says something to the effect of look for previously converted catalogs.

Catalog folders are relatively small. So, I always keep them. You never know when they may be needed.

@amyvegte said: Since I’m wanting to recover the actual images, do I need to get those from the .tly files instead? I have multiples of those on my external HDD/L drive.

A .tly file is a very small file that contains imortant information about the backup. So, yes, if you have any hopes of recovering the lost files from a backup, you must restore these backups.

@amyvegte said: Is there a way to get the actual original files back or am I stuck with the backup copies?

The backup copies are exact replicas of the original files. They have merely been renamed to B00xxxx etc. When you restore the backup, the files will be placed back on your hard drive with their original names.

Are these backup copies what is contained in the .tly files?

Yes (in the backup folders).

Can I try to retore the .tly files and would that overwrite these B00 backup copies?

Yes, restore the backups. As mentioned before, you should retore the files to a new main folder. If you restore to the original location, the current files may be overwritten with the backup copies. (I'm not sure about this, if e.g. the current file has been edited after the version that was backed up and saved with the same name.)

I can think of a couple of reasons why you are seeing low resolution copies of photos on your hard drive. The most obvious reason would be that the Organizer uses low resolution thumbnails to display the photos in the grid. Given the size of your catalog, it is possible that the thumbnails are not updating quickly, particularly because they are being stored on a NAS (which is not recommended by Adobe and can cause performance issues). If this is the case, try updating the thumbnail by selecting it and pressing Shift+Ctrl+U. Another possible reason is that when photos were first being digitized on CD-ROM drives, Kodak would provide copies at various resolutions. Perhaps you imported one of the low resolution photos from such a source.

@amyvegte said: I do not have as many .buc files as .tyl files, and I'm guessing that will also be an issue with retriving these lost images?

As I said, I no longer use Full backups created by the Organizer, so I don't have any recent relevent experience. Possible explanations are that the backup failed or you did an incremental backup.

If you are having any difficulty restoring the backups, you still have the option of creating a new catalog and importing the B00xxx files found in the backup folder. You will then be able to easily view the photos in the Organizer and see if the missing one are there.

Report · Feb 06, 2025

@Greg_S. said Please explain what you mean when you say your L and M drives are set up as redundant drives. Are they set up as a RAID drive? And if so, what kind of RAID? If this is not a RAID configuration, how are you keeping the drives in sync?

I have a NAS with two redundant drives. They are set up as Synology Hybrid RAID (SNH). Below is a link describing what SNH is. The 'L' and 'M' drives don't refer to any actual physical drives. They're just drive letters that are virtually mapped to my NAS. So all they do is provide me a way to access the files on my NAS. I haven't run into any performance issues, but what should I be watching for?

https://kb.synology.com/vi-vn/DSM/tutorial/What_is_Synology_Hybrid_RAID_SHR

@amyvegte said: Since I’m wanting to recover the actual images, do I need to get those from the .tly files instead? I have multiples of those on my external HDD/L drive.

A .tly file is a very small file that contains imortant information about the backup. So, yes, if you have any hopes of recovering the lost files from a backup, you must restore these backups.

So that I understand, is the .tly files the file that contains the photos that get restored? The .psedb20 has only the catalog information store (i.e. tags, face rec, etc) and the same with the .buc file?

I've completed the first RESTORE and CONVERT backup and it was sucessful. I have several more backups I could also restore to check for missing photos. For the sake of the workflow process, I'm wondering if it would make sense to do all of the restore backups and then once they are all completed, through File Explorer copy/drag the file structures into the individual folders (this would allow me the opportunity to avoid copying over any duplicate files), and from there look at just one full file structure and do the bulk import from that?

Report · Feb 06, 2025

When you restore a backup, you are recreating the catalog in the condition it was in at the time the backup was created. The only difference will depend on the storage location you choose for the restoration.

I am not sure what happens if you chose to restore different versions of the same catalog to the original location. For example, if you restore your My Catalog backup created in YEAR 2 to the same location as your My Catalog backup created in YEAR 1. I am guessing that only files that were added to the catalog in YEAR 2 will be restored to the original location and no duplicates will be added. I have no idea what will happen if you have edited a YEAR 1 file in YEAR 2 and saved the file with the same name.

Moving the files around with Windows File Explorer sounds like a bad idea to me. But you seem to be organized enough that this method may work for you. Only you know what files may be missing. So, it seems to me that looking for the files either by date or folder location in the Organizer would make more sense. If you find a missing file, you can move it to your desired location and then use Watch Folders in your main catalog to find them.

Report · Feb 13, 2025

How would you suggest I complete the other Restore catalog processes since I do have more saved backups from over the years. Do you recommend I look through one restored catalog at a time? Any other workflow process that you would recommend? Should I restore all of them to a new location (being the same new location for all)?

Report · Feb 13, 2025

Do you have some idea of which files have been lost, e.g. by date or folder location?

Report · Feb 14, 2025

Yes, I have a date range of those I know were lost, and those files were in folder location by date.