[Released] Now in Beta: New Color Settings Panel with a refreshed user experience

[Neerja Rewal]

Edit: This feature is now shipping in Premiere Pro v24. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback while it was in beta!

We released a new color settings panel a few months back which consolidates the color settings in one place for discoverability and ease of use. Thanks to our users who gave us feedback on the feature and spoke up about their concerns. With this update, we are updating the settings pane’s user experience based on feedback we had received post Beta. The new settings pane experience groups the settings and helps you interact with them in a more intuitive manner.

Below are key new changes in the settings tab -

1. Intuitive grouping of settings into sections in line with terminology used in settings across dialogs in the app today for an easier learning curve for our users.

a) Preferences: This section allows you to choose ‘Display Color Management’ settings or ‘Transmit Device’ settings. The settings under this section will apply to all clips and projects within Premiere.

b) Project: This section allows you to select all project level color settings like ‘HDR Graphic White Nits’, ‘3D LUT interpolation’, ‘Viewer Gamma’, ‘Auto detect log video color space’. The settings in this section will apply to the project in focus.

c) Source clip: The color settings under source clip settings allow you to override the default color space and specify the media color space manually. The source clip setting in this section will apply to the source clip from the sequence selected in the timeline or the source clip selected in the project bin.

d) Sequence: The color settings under this section will allow you to modify the sequence settings like ‘Working Color Space’ or ‘Auto Tone Map Media’ for the sequence for the clip selected in the timeline or sequence selected in the project bin.

e) Sequence clip: The color settings here will apply to the clip selected in the timeline and will allow you to update the ‘Tone Mapping Method’.

2. More Intuitive source clip selection behavior: Our users reported that it was not intuitive for them to click on the source clip in the project bin to enable the setting for source clip which was in line with modal settings dialog behavior, hence, we updated the behavior to enable source clip section for the sequence clip selected in the timeline. Any change to the source clip setting will make the change for the source across projects and sequences. You can still choose a different source clip than the sequence clip selected by going to the project bin.

3. Help text for non-color managed media: Users reported confusion around being unable to edit certain sections like sequence or source when certain clips were selected. We explicitly call out media as ‘Not color managed’ next to the section titles to make it easy for you to understand why a section is disabled.

4. Project, Sequence and Clip names next to section titles: To help you easily correlate the sections with the selected media or section on the left, we now call out section names against each section based on the selection.

5. New styling to identify indents: For better usability, section titles have an expand/collapse icon next to them.  

Please try the refreshed settings experience and share your feedback!

[Jarle_Leirpoll]

This is much more intuitive! Thank you for listening 🙂

[Neerja Rewal]

Thanks again for the feedback!

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm with Jarle on this. It's looking like the unified color management panel I formally and informally asked for do long ago!

So, thanks a TON.

Now to work with it a bit ...

Neil

[Neerja Rewal]

Thanks @R Neil Haugen for your feedback.

[Richard M Knight]

How do I get Premiere to add the HDMI HDR flag so that my LG OLED will switch to HLG using a BM UltraStudio 4K?

[Neerja Rewal]

Hi Richard,
Does the response on this thread help? - https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/hdr-using-bm-ultra-studio-4k/m-p/12913393 
Also adding @eric escobar for insights on HDR workflow. 

Thanks,
Neerja

[Richard M Knight]

It seems to send the flag when the sequence is set to 25fps but not at 50. The BM UltraStudio should cope with HDR at the higher framerate. As expected Resolve has no issues with HDR at 50fps UHD but they make the hardware!

[eric escobar]

Hello Richard, 

Thanks for flagging this issue. I am seeing that Premiere Pro is not transmitting HDR to BMD at frame rates above 30fps. Can you do me a favor and confirm that you are seeing the same thing? You can get HDR out from BMD up until 30fps, but anything higher than that and it drops to SDR? I am tracking this down!

Eric

---

Eric Escobar

Product Manager, Pro Video Workflows, DVA

Adobe

[eric escobar]

And to be clear, this is only happening in the Beta, not in Premiere Pro 23.6. Based on my testing, PPro HDR/HFR transmit to BMD works correctly in the latest shipping version of the app. Are you seeing the same thing Richard?

Thanks!

Eric

Eric Escobar

Product Manager, Pro Video Workflows, DVA

Adobe

[Richard M Knight]

This is a test I have just done and the results are the same for both 24.0.0 Build 35 Beta and 23.6.0 Build 65 shipping.

UHD bars and tone HLG into sequence.

LG OLED65B7V connected by optical HDMI cable

25 FPS HDR on  TV

30 FPS HDR on TV

50 FPS no HDR

60 FPS no HDR.

HD Sequence HDR on TV at all frame rates

Sequence settings:

UltraStudio Setup:

[R Neil Haugen]

Well, that seems clear enough ... good post.

[eric escobar]

Thank you for this, Richard. I am talking with Engineering now and chasing it down. I am seeing the same behavior on my set up Apple Silicon + BMD 4K Ultra out via HDMI to HDR1000 monitor on frame rates above 30fps on the beta, but can't reproduce on shipping. All of this gives us clues to solve the mystery. This is a bug and we're working on it. I'll keep you posted!

Eric

---

Eric Escobar

Product Manager, Pro Video Workflows, DVA

Adobe

[Richard M Knight]

I should have said in my first post

Windows 11 Pro 22H2 build 226212134

i9-9900K

64GB RAM

Nvidia GeForce 2070 Super 536.99

[Shebbe]

Hi,

The color management is slowly getting somewhere but I can see that it's mostly targeted to editors not wanting/needing to spend much time tweaking color for their deliverables. The fact that the pipeline still is display referred is what gives it away. Nonetheless for those people this is a good way to have them not fall into confusion hoops with different LUTs for each type of footage.

Based on that I will provide some feedback..

- It looks like different clips or tone map types have different default settings? This is weird and especially for exposure it should never start with something other than 'no adjustment' / 0. Otherwise it means that Premiere is already changing the look of the source without artist touching it. If the different tonemap models produce different exposure between eachother there's something wrong in the math but I don't think they do so default should be able to remain 0 for all.

- Great that there are 3 tonemap models now which we can choose from!

Not fully sure about this but isn't it called "Per Channel" instead of "By Channel"?

- Not all files can have color management enabled. ARRI mxf files don't get read properly although metadata is present.

- Management is still not enabled for any file type making management for non metadata files impossible. If you have FX9 footage for example, but one of the clips gets VFX treatment you lose management on that clip. All file types should have the option to be set to anything from the colorspace list present in the software. Also images of which some are treated as 709 but others converted from sRGB to 709 because of profile embedding working on some files but not on others.

- Some thoughts for future development in line with the above. What about dynamic links? AE's colormanagement is not in line with Premiere. (Adobe color managed) so VFX roundtripping is not possible at the moment. We'd need the same colormanagement type system on AE (for linearizing and viewing) and it should auto forward the data back to Premiere keeping the dynamic link comp in SLog3 for example and then Premiere still tone maps it.

Basically at some point the old icc profile based AE management should be thrown out the window 🙂

[Baffy19]

👉Stop, stop, stop.

And where is the letter "F" that I asked about? As a colorist, I want to work in the Arri color space in real time, as the widest in the supported Adobe system. This is very necessary for professional work with color. And to display the material in the color space for the client's tasks - REC.709, 2020, 2100, PCI D3. Where will this be implemented, on the export page? Or you'll pass by again.

[R Neil Haugen]

You would think a clear, precise description of the color processing pipeline would be a good thing for users to know. But getting a full, public description is not that easy in my experience.

At NAB this April, I asked very carefully and directly about the color space of the processing pipeline. From ingesting media through timeline through export. Including whether media was transformed to the timeline working space prior to processing color controls from Lumetri or some other color control.

The answer I finally got, in some detail, from a very senior staffer, was that the sequence color space setting actually only sets the display space. This is a major piece of information!

From that staffer, he said very clearly the clips are not transformed to that display color space, then Lumetri applied. Lumetri is applied to the clip data ... with the transform to display space processed after Lumetri.

While a couple others were more than a bit hesitant to give any answer on this, for some reason I don't understand, none said that information was wrong.

I posted about that on the forum here a few months back ... and again, though staffers participated in that thread, none contradicted that information. If any staffer has a clarification of this, I would love to see it posted here!

What this indicates is we are at least working from the original data when applying color corrections, not modified pixels from the smaller display space if Rec.709 is the chosen display space.

While that would be better than having the data transformed prior to Lumetri, still ... many of us would like a unified space to do corrections within. Such as Baffy's request for the Arri wide.

I would happily take a choice to transform to Arri-wide for timeline data. Or even P3-D65. Something wide but unified. As that does tend to make color corrections more predictable across clips. Speeding and simplifying the user workflow.

[R Neil Haugen]

I know we all complain about the non-specific information from the PrPro devs on the precise color processing steps from ingest through timeline through display through export.

But there's also a long thread on a BM forum with some major colorists involved, trying to sort out what the heck the Resolve devs mean about some color tools being "color space aware".

As no one can take the information from the Resolve manual, test through an either ACES or RCM workflow, and get results that they would expect to achieve if this was the case. There are always  ... puzzlements.

So I suppose some slack to the Adobe devs is warranted. But I still want that information nailed down, personally.

[Shebbe]

The answer I finally got, in some detail, from a very senior staffer, was that the sequence color space setting actually only sets the display space. This is a major piece of information!

Yes Premiere doesn't have a working space. Only direct conversions to the sequence (output) colorspace.

From that staffer, he said very clearly the clips are not transformed to that display color space, then Lumetri applied. Lumetri is applied to the clip data ... with the transform to display space processed after Lumetri.

This is not true. All media is directly converted to the sequence's display space, tone mapping happens too if enabled, and then all other effects are applied inlcuding Lumetri Color which is just an effect like any other. We can very easily verify this by adding Brightness/Contrast effect to the clip. The brightness slider is just offset math which would behave like real exposure if applied on log prior to tone mapping and display conversion but we can see that all pixels move equally on the scopes.

What this indicates is we are at least working from the original data when applying color corrections, not modified pixels from the smaller display space if Rec.709 is the chosen display space.

So yea, by the above this is also not true.

While that would be better than having the data transformed prior to Lumetri, still ... many of us would like a unified space to do corrections within. Such as Baffy's request for the Arri wide.

This is only desirable for working with scene referred footage but comes with a big set of complications for display referred data. You need inverses of your tone mappers that are accurate to make sure graphics etc don't change in appearance. You also need a more advanced set of tools and mechanics regarding color picking, scopes, image scaling and fully unlocked management for any file type along with a colorspace list that covers all of them.

Maybe some day Premiere Pro will get to such a point where that can be possible but my guess is that it's very far off or likely never going to happen...

What I can see happening is that we can have a hybrid mechanic somehow that would enable us to use tools to manipulate data before the tone mapping selectively and retain the rest of the already existing display referred workflow.

[Baffy19]

If the source video with a wide dynamic range is thrown onto a timeline configured for the final version of the color data display (REC 709), then we will get compression and a small color space, which will significantly limit manipulations with the gradation of the frame during color correction. Therefore, Adobe developers should definitely take note of this and implement this feature. Now it is a very meager process and destructive for professional color correction. Because of this, I paint only in DaVinci, where everything is implemented at the highest level and there are no problems with incorrect color display. And there is more ahead, on the ACES approach, which should become a single world standard when working with color.

[R Neil Haugen]

A couple comments especially responding to Shebbe. But first, thanks for posting, Shebbe! Nice to "see" you here as well as the other forums we're both on!

The comment about Brightness control, seems off to me. Offset moves everything ... in my experience in both SpeedGrade and Resolve. I used to 'balance' uneven channel responses in both apps by simply using Offset to move one channel against the other two. I found it quicker to match channels by first adjusting Offset to get most things matching, then using Gain to match white points and contrast ranges.

Where it becomes difficult to prove processing chain details after the fact, is that we don't have any signal that is not in the after-timeline space. Including the scopes, which are apparently tied to the display space.

And the second point, from that conversation, is about why applying Lumetri on an HLG sequence to drop a clip within Rec.709 values does not work at export. As if it had been by simply setting the display space, the export would be the same as the display.

But it isn't, is it?

Because the clip is not tranformed to the color space of the display space, the clip space is still seen by the app as HLG at export. Unless you override the clip space to Rec.709 to match the display (timeline) space.

At export, Premiere uses the assigned clip color space data to create the exported image. Not the transformed data from the sequence showing the display space.

So ... I stick with the explanation I was given.

And think that Baffy's comments, though well reasoned within a particular view of the processing pipeline, aren't actually accurate in regards to the actual pipeline.

Which I think is ... at least ... semi-clear? ... because of the data used at export thing. It's still original clip data that Lumetri is actually applied to, not the data of the display space transform.

[Shebbe]

I have more feedback.

I can understand that you want to explain/guide complex terminology for beginners but is it really a good idea to put it in the name rather than a mouse over tooltip?

Apple premiered it's new iPhone that will presumably shoot in true log.

You will have to add support for this eventually. But this will likely look better with Per Channel tone mapping.

However you see iPhone in the Hue Persevation model which may throw off the beginner?... What if more phones start to film in the same way those models do in HLG HDR with DV metadata? Would you add them too in the description?

If you make mouse over tool tips you can place much more text explaining the recommendations and keeps the options themselves clean from any specific data.

If one field is too small, you could also split the tooltip into separate ones that only show respectively when hovering over one of the methods.

The other reason I'm suggesting this is because Per Channel isn't always better for log. And what if later down the line Adobe invents a new tone mapping algorithm. That is also very pretty for log. It just gets messy with the text in the choices...

[Amitzi Photography]

I've been using this for a week. It seems like if I sync some footage and audio (using create Multi Camera Sequence), the footage inconsistently shows the auto color grading.

Windows 10 PPro 24.1.0 

[R Neil Haugen]

More details of your exact steps would be needed to even try and replicate. So ... please post additional details. Especially the particular media and what it came from, and the OS and hardware you are using.

Plus ... what is "inconsistent" in detail also. Thanks!

[Amitzi Photography]

My footage is Sony 10-bit 4:2:2 60p S-log 3.
With the first few releases the auto-detect log didn't work at all, once
the clips and the audio got synced. Now, sometimes they work, mostly they
don't.
Windows 10, Intel i7 12700KF Nvidia RTX 3080
64GB DD4