Productions Bugs and Suggestions

[Luftar Von Rama]

I spent a good deal of time trying to migrate a big documentary project into a production. Here are my findings on bugs and improvements needed for productions.

1. Reassociate clips don't always work, even when the same clip has all of the same exact metadata. The clip remains in the project you don't want it in. We need to have a media tool, a page just like in Avid where you see all of the clips associated with that Production/Project. Perhaps give each piece of media a unique ID that we can see in the metadata fields.

2. If you move a clip that's used from one project into another, the video and usage shows the correct usage in the original project but then the usage disappears when moved to the new project. Then if you consolidate duplicates, it removes the clip that was moved from the original project. When you go to a sequence and match back in the original project, you get an error saying that clip is no longer in the project. This happens on clips that don't reassociate properly.

3. When you move a clip to another project, it requires two undos to get that clip back to the original project.

4. Any media moved into another project should be automatically associate that clip with the new project. Either make this default or give this as an option.

5. We need to be able to open a Production on the Welcome page. Having to go to file, open production makes it feel like you don't really want people to use productions where it should really be the standard.

6. Search Bins have been rendered useless in a production because they are project based. You want to be able to access all of the media you need when searching because the media will be filtered into a different project. Because if I wanted to set up my projects to have a Dailies bin and then a scene bin, the scene bin would need to have duplicate clips. To solve that I think below...

7. We need to be able to clone a clip into other projects. This functionality will keep the master clip associated with the original project but give you the ability to move clips into other projects without actually duplicating the media.

8. Lastly, the Merge Clip, Multi Camera source sequence worfklows need to be combined. We need one simple way to sync without all the different terms and limitations. Also make Merged clips to be able to be opened in a sequence and slipped.

[mattchristensen]

Thank you for giving Productions a try, and thanks also for your thorough write up. I'll make sure your feedback gets back to the team. I have some follow up on some of your points that could help clarify things for us:

1. Could you give a more specific example (or a production without media for us to look at) where reassociate isn't working? The Reassociate command is designed for situations where clips in a timeline were linking to master clips in a project and the master clips have been moved while the timeline was closed. It's not intended to to be a regular part of a workflow, but more of a tool to fix things up if they were moved. Knowing more about how you're trying to use and what it's not doing will be helpful.

4. This does happen, if the project containng the sequence where those clips are used is open. The links across projects will update. If the clips that are being moved are in a timeline that is in a project that is not open, there's not much we can do there.

7. You can duplicate media into other projects if you want to have two copies of it. I'm guessing that your ask for a "clone" would somehow link the two master clips? That seems to be fighting against the point of using a Production – you want there to be only one copy of a master clip. It can be used in any number of sequences, but there's only one master clip in a bin. Could you elaborate a bit more on why you'd want to clone a master clip and what the properties of a clone might have that are different from just duplicating it?

8. We totally hear you on the pain points with Merge Clips / Multi-Cams. 

[Luftar Von Rama]

I've attached a video showcasing the reassociation Bug and the associated production via the google drive link.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wq83U718k79GLW8R5EjmA4qYyEckuse4

[mattchristensen]

Thank you so much for the video and sending the production – I was able to get to the bottom of what's happening. The short and simple version is what you're seeing is indeed a bug. We're hoping to get it fixed soon. I also just wanted to share that when breaking apart an existing project into a production, it's best to add the project to the production (like you did) and then just move the master clips to new projects. There's no need to duplicate them and use the Reassociate command. I don't mean to suggest that to excuse the bug, just a tip for the future.

I also have an easy workaround for you. Open both projects like you have set up in your video, then drag the master clip from the organized project back into the original project, making sure to drag it to the root level of the original project. Then, just drag it right back to the organized project. After doing that, you'll be able to delete the empty folder, and your Reveal In Project command from the timeline will still work, taking you to the organized project.

Thanks,

Matt

[jeneva]

Hi,

I have the same problem - a remote editor created a project and when I import it into my production I'm getting dozens of duplicate clips. I would like to reassociate those clips with the media projects that I've created. But reassociate clips doesn't work.

I tried the workaround you recommended but it didn't work, and I don't think I fully understand it. We should drag a master clip from the project we want to keep into the root level of the project we want to clean up, and then drag it back again? (This didn't work for me; am I missing the step where we actually use the reassociate clip command?) Where does the empty folder come in? Can you please explain with more detail?

I am using PP v 23.0.0 build 63 on a macbook pro M1.

Thanks.

[mattchristensen · Accepted solution]

@jeneva If your remote editor's project was never a part of your production, that explains what you are seeing. Sending projects back and forth and not having duplicates will only work if you build a production and then duplicate it to the remote editor, and then you are both working from the same original set of master clips. Otherwise you'll get what you are seeing – to Premiere Pro those are separate master clips.

One thing you could try is Edit  > Consolidate Duplicates. This is a command that runs on the active project only, and looks for master clips that are duplicates. It will keep the one that is "most organized", meaning most deeply nested in a folder and remove any others, and update any sequences to point to the clip that is left behind. That may help you clean up here, but it also may not. If there are significant differences to the clips, like different marker sets, different clip names, etc, it will not consolidate them.

[andymees@aje]

7. You can duplicate media into other projects if you want to have two copies of it. I'm guessing that your ask for a "clone" would somehow link the two master clips? That seems to be fighting against the point of using a Production – you want there to be only one copy of a master clip. It can be used in any number of sequences, but there's only one master clip in a bin. Could you elaborate a bit more on why you'd want to clone a master clip and what the properties of a clone might have that are different from just duplicating it?

Hi Matt

In answer to your question, I believe VonRama's point 7 was a proposed solution/workaround/follow on from point 6 ... that 'Search Bin' functionality is currently hobbled in the new Productions workflow if and when master clips have been broken into separate container projects. Ie There is no apparent 'production level' 'Search Bin' functionality. I dipped my toes into the Productions workflow this morning,  for the first time, converting an existing short doco project with around 6000 clips / 80 hrs of rushes etc and I've just run into the same problem. Is it possible? Or do I need to go back in and recombine the separate media 'projects' I so lovingly just created?

Cheers

Andy

[mattchristensen]

Andy,

You are correct with regards to Search Bins (and also Usage Counts). It's sort of a catch 22 in that the core fundamental benefit to Productions is splitting up the project data, meaning that if a project is closed it is not in RAM and essentially invisible to your copy of Premiere. For a Search Bin or Usage Count to be comprehensive to the whole Production would (at least today) require all the projects to be open and using RAM and then basically negating the benefits of a Production.

That's not to say we want to just leave it in that state – we are looking at ways to get some of this functionality into Productions while not losing the core benefit of breaking apart to smaller projects.

[R Neil Haugen]

Matt,

This is to me by far the most pressing problem with working in a Productions process.

Searching for assets is nearly completely useless.

I understand conceptually how this works now, and yes, that's why searching is so hamstrung. But ... there are search tools that do not open and run programs, they simply search data on disc.

I think that is what will need to somehow be designed, a way for the data within a project file to be accessed without needing to have the project file itself "opened". I do not know of course what form the internal databases within Premiere projects take. But that data needs to be in a form that is accessible from outside the project file. Some database structure that can be read on-disc without opening the project file to read it.

Neil

[beckandfriends]

Hi Matt
We also have a problem here with reassociating master clips
In our case an external editor has edited a sequence outside of our production in Final Cut Pro X. Hes's given us an XML (converted with XtoCC). I've tried several ways to tie this edit into my production:

1. - Create a new projekt in my production
   - import XML and leave all footage offline
   - reassociate clips in timeline to Masterclips which is in a seperate footage project inside of our production
2. - Create a new projekt in my production
   - import XML and link footage to local footage
   - reassociate clips in timeline to Masterclips which is in a seperate footage project inside of our production
3. - Create a new projekt in my production
   - import XML and link footage to local footage
   - copy sequence to a new project in our production
   - reassociate clips in timeline to Masterclips which is in a seperate footage project inside of our production
4. - Create a new standalone projekt OUTSIDE of my production
   - import XML and leave all footage offline / link all footage
   - Add that project into my production
   - copy the sequence to a new project in my production
   - reassociate clips in timeline to Masterclips which is in a seperate footage project inside of our production

The clips always refer to the master clips in the imported project,  not my footage project. If I move the import project to the Trash before reassociating I get the error message "The project with this media can't be found" as soon as I try to reveal a clip in the project.

The Editor has used the same Files as we have here. I was wondering if it had anything to do with XMP Metadata. So I did everything again, deleting my footage project and importing one time with XMP and one time without. Still no luck! It just wouldnt reassociate.

Reassociate worked well though when adding a local project from which we needed a sequence that was edited before we switched to productions.

It would be really helpfull if there was feedback as to which clips did get reassociated and which didn't, also with a reason why id didn't get reassociated. Now it's like fishing in the complete dark.

Thanks

Andy

[Trevor_Asq]

A lot of this flags the lack of decent conform tools in Premiere. 

[Neckebba]

We mostley have issues on our GPFS servers that the progress window doesnt load all media .. it gets stuck on all moments, on all sort files, not always same files. it can get stuck on a render file, wave, jpg, mxf. And so somethimes media stays pending. 

[R Neil Haugen]

VonRama,

I particularly like your suggestion number 5 ... it seems so odd to open a project within a production to get to the production itself...

Neil

[andymees@aje]

Whilst obviously a by-product of my just having converted a project to a production, I was somewhat suprised to see that my Open Project / Welcome page 'Recents' list was basically hosed, at it now listed every new saved 'project' within my production as a discreet item in the list ie Day 1, Day 2 Day3 etc rather than showing my recent 'Production' as a singular item together with older/other recent 'Projects' ie those that exist outside of a Production. 

It may not be viable, and I should probably suck it and see for while before suggesting it, but an option to limit the Recents menu as such might be useful.

[R Neil Haugen]

On starting Premiere I ignore the start list of recent projects and just go to file/open production.

Neil

[Trevor_Asq]

+1 to seeing the most recent productions rather then all the projects therein.

[mattchristensen]

The recent list will show your production as its own entity, but obviously if you open more than a few member projects, those can then kick it down or off the list entirely. It's interesting – when we developed Productions we were very curious if more people would just open up a member project as a way to get into the Production, or if they would start "at the top" and do File > Open Production. So, we instrumented it! It fluctuates over time, but the majority (between 50-60%) of people who open a production, do so by opening a member project.

One thing we could consider is upon closing a production, we re-add the production to the recent list so that it'll be at the top the next time you come in?

[R Neil Haugen]

Matt, that would be SO appreciated!

Neil