Problem with writing a proper condition expression in RH20

[Milsademon]

Hi, I'm struggling to understand the logic of condition expressions and I have a hard time defining the expression that meets my needs.

I have three client tags : Client A, Client B, Client C.

I have two output tags : Online and Print

Text can be tagged with multiple tags, since some functions are common to Client A and B, or Client A and C, or Client B and C.

Furthermore, in my help topics, I have links to help pages that are specific to one client and that are tagged with Online and Client A, or Online and Client B, etc. And I have links that are common to all clients that are tagged only with Online (since I don't want them in a printed output). 

When I produce my online help for Client A, I want to see text that is tagged with : 

• Client A
• Client A and Client B
• Client A and Client C
• Online
• Client A and Online
• Client A and Client B and Online
• Client A and Client C and Online

I have successfully built a condition expression that includes all the text tagged Client A, whether alone or in combination with another Clients tag or with the Online tag, and excluded any text tagged with Print. Which is almost what I want.

However, I can't find a way to include also text that is tagged with Online only. Is it possible ? If yes, how ?

Here is the condition that I have written so far.

     EXCLUDE when Clients is B

     OR

     EXCLUDE when Clients is C

     AND

     EXCLUDE when Output is Print

     AND

     INCLUDE when Clients is A

Whenever I want to introduce Online either with AND or OR, I don't get the result I want.

My first try was to add "OR INCLUDE when Output is Online" at the end, but this makes all texts tagged with Online visible, including the text not tagged with Client A but tagged with Client B and/or Client C that I want hidden.

I have made several other attemps by moving my "OR INCLUDE when Output is Online" elsewhere in the condition, and I also tried with "AND INCLUDE when Output is Online" at various places, but I can't get the right result. I can't understand the logic...

Does anyone have a solution ?

Thanks in advance.

[Amebr]

I can't do what you want in New UI, but I can in Classic. 😕

Firstly I set up a Classic project to figure out how to do it in the product I'm familiar with. I set up a topic with paragraphs tagged with multiple combinations of Client A-C and Online and Print. 

The I wrote a build expression using the Advanced interface:

Which I think meets your requirements of adding "stuff" tagged with online only.

That took me about 2min to set up in Classic.

But replicating that expression as best I can tell in New UI

Results in this:

I've tried about a billion combinations of AND and OR and I can't figure out exactly what it's doing.

For simple cases, Classic and New UI appear to be doing the same thing.

For example "NOT Client_B AND NOT Print" and "Exclude Client_B AND Exclude Print" produce the same thing - it excludes anything tagged with either Client B or Print.

Switching to OR also produces the same result in both version - it excludes anything tagged with BOTH Client B and Print.

But getting into the more complex equation with both AND and OR, New UI appears to be doing something different from Classic, but I haven't been able to figure out what. 

[Milsademon]

Thanks Amebr for the trials. Like you, I had no problem either with my conditional expression with Classic. 

I feel a bit discouraged now... I guess we'll need the programmers of Robohelp to explain how it is supposed to work...

[Peter Grainge]

@Amebr In theory the New UI didn't change how expressions work in any way and I don't think I have seen anyone report that. However, you do know your way around the block so you could have found something.

@Milsademon Two things quickly as I am about to travel.

1. See if RH2022 Single Sourcing. Tags and Expressions (grainge.org) helps.
2. You shouldn't need to include topics as everything in the TOC goes into the build unless excluded.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Milsademon]

Thank you Peter for your answer. I hadn't seen the page you linked to on your website (although I have searched your site before posting here). However, your page doesn't provide a solution for my complex condition expression. As for your point 2. I'm pretty sure I have tried just excluding what I don't want without obtaining the proper result, but I'll try again, just to make sure.

[Peter Grainge]

Sorry for the delay but I have just started looking at this and need clarification.

Looking at the requirement in a different way to the original description for Client A you want any content tagged A or Online to appear. It does seem to matter if any other tag is applied. You have said

Client A
Client A and Client B
Client A and Client C

So if it has Client A applied, you want the text in whether or not B or C is also applied. Correct?

Plus online of course.

What is confusing me is you have said you want content tagged A and B to appear but in the expression you have excluded B and C.

For an online output it looks like you only need to exclude Print.

What am I getting wrong?

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Milsademon]

Hi Peter,

I'll try to sum it up better 🙂

For client A I want :

• No text that is tagged Print.
• Any text that includes the tag Client A, so it can be text that is specific to Client A (tagged with only Client A), text that is common to Client A and Client B (tagged with both tags Client A and Client B), text that is common to Client A and Client C (tagged with both tags Client A and Client C), text that is specific to Client A and the Online Help output (tagged with both tags Client A and Online).
• Any text that is tagged with Online only (therefore excluding text that is tagged with Online and Client B or Online and Client C). >> This is where my condition expression ceases to work... Text with Online only is hidden in the output.

So, if I sum up what I don't want :

• Text tagged with Print.
• Text that is specific to Client B or Client C (tagged with Client B only, or tagged with Client C only).
• Text that is common to Client B and Client C (tagged with both tags Client B and Client C)
• Text that is specific to the Online Help and Client B (tagged with both tags Client B and Online), and the same for Client C.
• Text that is specific to the Online Help but common to Client B and Client C (so tagged with the three tags Online, Client B and Client C).

Is it clearer ?

[Peter Grainge]

For client A I want :

No text that is tagged Print. PG Expression excludes Print

1. Any text that includes the tag Client A, so it can be text that is specific to Client A (tagged with only Client A), text that is common to Client A and Client B (tagged with both tags Client A and Client B), text that is common to Client A and Client C (tagged with both tags Client A and Client C), text that is specific to Client A and the Online Help output (tagged with both tags Client A and Online).
   PG Unless there are more tags, then all of those will get published. With exclude Print being the only tag in the expression, all other content will get generated. I think the content that is for Clients B and C only iswhere your problem kicks in. You can't say exclude B in some places but not others. 

For B or C only content, I think that will need a different tag. Clumsy tag names for that would be Exclude if B Only and Exclude if C Only. Then you would add those tags to the expression. Give that a whirl.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Amebr]

@Peter Grainge do you want me to put together two sample projects, one for classic and one for New UI that shows the condition expression working with Classic and not working with New UI?

[Amebr]

Actually, I thought of one more test I can try, upgrading a working Classic sample project. I'll let you know how that goes.

[Peter Grainge]

Upgrading a Classic project sounds good on the basis it should rewrite the expression correctly, in theory. 

Even if it doesn't the tagging will be correct. I'll be happy to look then.

________________________________________________________
My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Amebr]

I did an upgrade test with RH2019 (not at a computer with RH2020 today) and the upgraded expression matches the manually built one I posted previously and produces the same (incorrect compared to Classic) output. I've added a reminder to redo the test with RH2020 and RH2022 tonight, although I don't expect any different outcome.

[Peter Grainge]

@Amebr Unless you find the answer, please share both the projects with me. I very much doubt I will do any better than you but if not I can then liaise with Adobe.

@Milsademon Can you share the projects, original Classic and New UI? If you can, then see the Contact page on my site and send the project as instructed there. Do make sure you include a link to this thread and please do not email the project direct.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Milsademon]

@Peter Grainge I cannot share my Classic project because it is our official client project. However, I could share with you my test project with RH2020, but I assume, from your next answer, that it will not give you more information than what you did yourself in your RH2022 project.

[Peter Grainge]

I have created a new 2022 project and added various lines of text with the tags originally specified. I also took a screenshot of what text so that in an output you can compare what has been generated with the original text.

In the screenshot below the text in the output is what you set out in the original post. The only line that is missing in the outpt is the one tagged Print which is what you didn't want included.

What am I missing?

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Milsademon]

@Peter Grainge Yes, it is exactly the output I want, how did you do ? 🙂

[Amebr]

Do you have text that is tagged only for client B, or client B and online, or client B and print (and similarly for client c)? 

[Milsademon]

Yes, the tags are applied similarly for all clients. So when I produce the online help for Client B, I'll want a similar output to what I want for Client A, but excluding what is specific to Client A, of course :-), and same for Client C.

[Amebr]

Sorry, I should have tagged Peter, as I was asking about his example. 🙂

[Peter Grainge]

From what I could see, you wanted all content unless it is tagged Print. So I wrote an expression called Not_Print.

Test it in your client project. Maybe there is a Client D that you also don't want. There you would exclude Client D as well.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Milsademon]

Not exactly, as I just answered to Amebr (and I think I mentionned in an earlier post), for Client A, I also want to exclude what is tagged with Client B only, or Client B and Online, or Client B and Client C, or Client B and Print, or Client C and Print, or Client B and Client C and Online, or Client B and Client C and Print.

[Peter Grainge]

I also want to exclude what is tagged with Client B only, or Client B and Online, or Client B and Client C, or Client B and Print, or Client C and Print, or Client B and Client C and Online, or Client B and Client C and Print.

So if a topic is tagged, for example A, B and C, you want it in for Client A but if it is tagged B only or C only for example you don't want it in. That requires separate tags.

I will look at that tomorrow or over the weekend. @Amebr has sent me her project that I can look at but please confirm paragraph two is correct.

See edit in italics.

I think it will be the same though. More tags for all the scenarios. 

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Milsademon]

Yes, paragraph two is correct. Thank you.

[Peter Grainge]

Just looking at B only and C only, the extra tags seem to do the job. By extension other exclusions should work the same way. I will look at the @Amebr project in due course but this seems to be going in the right direction.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[Peter Grainge]

I also want to exclude what is tagged with

Client B only

Client B and Online

B and Client C

Client B and Print

Client C and Print

Client B and Client C and Online

Client B and Client C and Print.

The expression that Excludes Print, B Only and C Only covers all of those scenarios when you use AND. Any one of those tags will exclude the topic. You would think OR would be required but I have explained that in the topic on my site. 

Here I have added all those scenarios under Additional Requirements.

When I generate, all the scenarios you have covered as shown under Additional Requirements do not get included without any change to the expression for Client A. I originally called the expression Not Print but think of it now as Client A Online.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.