RoboHelp 2019 Classic to RoboHelp 2020 > Word Output

[jane_robs]

I think I remember why I stuck with the Classic version of RoboHelp 2019. 

I need to use RoboHelp 2020 for a new frameless HTML project because the skins etc seem better. So, I'm just looking now at converting existing white papers we put out in RoboHelp Classic 2019 to RoboHelp 2020 "while I'm at it" "in the off chance we can be done with Classic" and I'm coming up against all types of problems.

Background: We store source in HTML just because I don't trust anything else and it also enables me to convert different content to different systems easier (through translation software, to other outputs if needed). I have been burned by having source be proprietory file types in the past and I don't really want to have all this managed only in Word because that always leads to problems converting back to anything "clean" in the future. So, we have RoboHelp projects set up with htm files and output them to Word >> onto PDF... for this particular type of document.

I've looked around a bit here but haven't as yet found anything specifically about the problems I have.

1. If I build an empty RoboHelp 2020 project and try and set it up with Word output linking to a dotx file, it doesn't work. I can't make the style list generate and it crashes on output.

2. I originally converted a Classic project over to 2020, I realised that it no longer uses .dot but uses dotx and with that one I managed to make it map the styles... but this is the same dotx as the empty file, so, I just can't figure out for the life of me why the empty one won't build.

3. In this converted one, I've managed to set up the css I use and the dotx I converted from dot and the styles go through BUT the resulting Word output does not have a TOC in it like the dot used to and the dotx does... this doesn't seem to carry through.

4. In Classic you could set up the Content like this:

so that the Word output had a cover page in it coming from that doc. I can't find a way to do this in RoboHelp 2020, I don't see the same options for this type of setup... and if it would ever be possible to do this + have a nice TOC (I mean this in the output): 

5. Even with the converted project I manage to get Word output out of list styles are not picked up. I used the "workaround" in Classic where all our list styles both numbered and unnumbered had paragraph styles within them so that they would convert to styles in Word, we then have macros that "fix" the lists in Word.... but with this conversion all list styles, anything that finds itself within <ol> or <ul> tags are sent to "normal" style. I don't find a way to map them to my dotx styles as I could in Classic. This could well be a "this is not possible" thing that I think I have seen a bit with some of the other posts I have read but, this is a major problem. I'd need to know how to convert list styles properly to make it work in Word.

6. I can't work out if I'm missing something but the wysiwyg editor no longer adds a nice new paragraph when you press enter, it enters a <br> and there's nothing like the great style selection like here:

All I can find is the thing to the side where I have to type the name:

I'm shocked at this loss of functionality. I may just be missing somewhere else where this works?

All these problems may well be known and I suppose if someone says "what you"re trying to do is impossible" then that at least would make me know that I can't pursue this. but any help on getting the same desired output from RoboHelp 2020 would be appreciated... sure it works when I just strip all lists out of the htm and then use the fixing method I have to rebuild the lists in Word 😄 but that's not ideal for the wyiwyg editor or for wanting to use it afterwards in another project as a html list.

thanks for any pointers on all this!

[Peter Grainge]

1. If I build an empty RoboHelp 2020 project and try and set it up with Word output linking to a dotx file, it doesn't work. I can't make the style list generate and it crashes on output.

You mean linking to the dotx in the preset for mapping purposes, correct? If so try deleting that link and generate just mapping to CSS. I realise the appearance will be wrong. I just want to tie the issue to the template.

2. I originally converted a Classic project over to 2020, I realised that it no longer uses .dot but uses dotx and with that one I managed to make it map the styles... but this is the same dotx as the empty file, so, I just can't figure out for the life of me why the empty one won't build.

So with different content mapped to the template it works OK, correct? You have referred to an empty file. What do you mean by that? If there is no content how can an output generate? You must mean something different to what I am thinking.

3. In this converted one, I've managed to set up the css I use and the dotx I converted from dot and the styles go through BUT the resulting Word output does not have a TOC in it like the dot used to and the dotx does... this doesn't seem to carry through.

That sounds like you are using an online TOC rather than a book TOC. There are now two types of TOC as described here. RH2020 The Table of Contents (grainge.org) With a book TOC you set up Front Matter and include a TOC there.

4. In Classic you could set up the Content like this (see image above) so that the Word output had a cover page in it coming from that doc. I can't find a way to do this in RoboHelp 2020, I don't see the same options for this type of setup... and if it would ever be possible to do this + have a nice TOC (I mean this in the output):

You add a cover page in the Front Matter as described above. It needs to be a topic though rather than a Word document.

5. Even with the converted project I manage to get Word output out of list styles are not picked up. I used the "workaround" in Classic where all our list styles both numbered and unnumbered had paragraph styles within them so that they would convert to styles in Word, we then have macros that "fix" the lists in Word.... but with this conversion all list styles, anything that finds itself within <ol> or <ul> tags are sent to "normal" style. I don't find a way to map them to my dotx styles as I could in Classic. This could well be a "this is not possible" thing that I think I have seen a bit with some of the other posts I have read but, this is a major problem. I'd need to know how to convert list styles properly to make it work in Word.

As you say, the Classic method was a workaround. What has changed is that now all the output is strictly compliant with HTML5 and CSS3. That does mean some changes. Without seeing your content I was going to suggest removing the <p> override by selecting the list and selecting "none" in the styles and also applying Clear Formatting in the Content Properties. Trouble is that doesn't remove the P tag. However, if you define your list style to look as you want, I think it will come through in Word. The reason you cannot map it is the adherance to HTML5 and CSS3 in the source. That means proprietary fixes that were used in Classic cannot be used now. Word lists are not truly lists, they are autonumbered paragraphs and in the HTML world, that is a different thing.

6. I can't work out if I'm missing something but the wysiwyg editor no longer adds a nice new paragraph when you press enter, it enters a <br> and there's nothing like the great style selection like here:

(see image above)

All I can find is the thing to the side where I have to type the name:

(see image above)

When you press Enter the code is as below while that line is empty.

<p><br />
</p>

That changes as soon as you type something.

All the styles are over on the right when you click on the S icon.

****************************************

I'm shocked at this loss of functionality. I may just be missing somewhere else where this works?

No loss of functionality, it has moved. I think it would help to look through the RoboHelp Tour on my site or the About RoboHelp sample project that ships with 2020. 

Please ensure you are on Update 7.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[jane_robs]

Thanks... for number 1. I think it is because in the empty project I had duplicated the Preset instead of just creating a new one. I've just converted another project and started from scratch, and this time the styles were mapped. so 1 is solved I think.

Just reading through the rest 😄

[jane_robs]

Also 2 is part of 1... so I think is solved.

for 3:

Indeed I had just whatever the conversion made me ie this one:

Thank you!! I will read your instructions to build a Book TOC. I kind of automatically assumed with Classic being primary input Printed documentation, it had set this correctly (and also I'm not very familiar with 2020)... I will work on this one before coming back to 4, 5, and 6.

[jane_robs]

I'm making progress on number 3 and also thank you for number 6, that is all sorted now. I will come back to number 4 and 5 later, in general though, thank you so much for the help!

[Peter Grainge]

Re 5 - There is a way to remove the P tag from a list that is overridden by that tag.

1. Select the List.
2. Go to any of the List icons on the toolbar at the top of the screen and select None.
3. Apply the list style you require. It will be written as a list without the P tags.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[jane_robs]

We have structure like this where there are images embedded in lists with different p styles. I'm not sure this is good for HTML 5, or for stripping out the p class of all of them. I'll spend time this afternoon working on 5 from what you put above. 

<ol class="list-level-2">
	<li><p class="list-level-2">In the administration module, open the 
	 <span class="bold-magenta">Data</span> page.</p></li>
	<li><p class="list-level-2">In the <span class="bold-magenta">Object 
	 type</span> field, select <span class="strong">Common datasets</span>.</p></li>
	<li><p class="list-level-2">Click <span class="bold-magenta">New</span>.</p>
	<p class="indent-level-2-embed">The common file attribute sheet is 
	 displayed. An example, with the fields already filled in, is shown 
	 in the following image.</p>
	<p class="graphics-level-2"><img alt="" src="../assets/images/Media/common_file_AS.png" width="600" height="473" border="0"/></p>
	<p class="figure-desc-level-2">Common file attribute sheet</p></li>
	<li><p class="list-level-2">Enter a <span class="bold-magenta">Name</span> 
	 and a <span class="bold-magenta">Description</span>.</p></li>
	<li><p class="list-level-2">Define the access rights in the <span class="bold-magenta">User 
	 access</span> option zone.</p></li>
	<li><p class="list-level-2">Click <span class="bold-magenta">OK</span>.</p>
	<p class="indent-level-2-embed">The common file is created and displayed 
	 in the list table.</p></li>
</ol>

[jane_robs]

I built a list to test quickly as I do have ol and ul styles in my css. I didn't have li styles but I created a li.list-level-1:

The code I have for this is: 

I can't find a way to map to Word though, the style list in the output preset only includes my character styles and paragraph styles... 

So, this li style is still mapping to Normal in the Word output.

I'm gathering maybe this is normal?

given the embedded nature of some elements that do have their proper styles that do ouptut in Word correctly, and thinking of keeping the structure of the html as it is just in case I need any of the content, I'm actually thinking the workaround is: 1. Before build create copy of the .htm files. 2. Notepad++ macro to strip out all list html styles. 3. Build doc to Word output > I then have all the paragraphs in my styles that I can use the quick fix I already have on to rebuild lists correctly in Word. 4. Replace the .htm files back in project with the old ones before stripping, for work to carry on.

[Peter Grainge]

I'm actually thinking the workaround is: 1. Before build create copy of the .htm files. 2. Notepad++ macro to strip out all list html styles. 3. Build doc to Word output > I then have all the paragraphs in my styles that I can use the quick fix I already have on to rebuild lists correctly in Word. 4. Replace the .htm files back in project with the old ones before stripping, for work to carry on.

To recall an expression I have seen here before, that sounds like changing the spark plugs via the exhaust pipe. 

You can't map to list styles in Word because as earlier, Word does not have true list styles, what you see there is an autonumbered paragraph. I think if you remove the P tag follow the steps I have added, then a list in RoboHelp will generate correctly to Word. For things like this I would create a small project with just a handful of topics. It's a quicker way of finding what does and does not work. Sometimes it also reveals that something not working in your main project is not working because of some conflict. This way reveals that.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[jane_robs]

In a small project, with just a list in it created with your method and another created from scratch, the lists generate in Word with autonumbering but with paragraph style Normal. I need to map my 4 different styles of lists to 4 paragraph styles in Word so that I can fix them. I am testing this with a small project and they all come out as Normal.

[Peter Grainge]

Create four list styles in RoboHelp with one having say red text, one green text, one blue text and one brown text and do not apply a P tag over the lists created. Does that not come through as it was in RoboHelp?

If it doesn't then create one list style but four p classes with those colours. Overwrite you lists with those classes. Does that work?

Post back how you get on and if neither of those works, I'll see if I can find out more tomorrow.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.

[jane_robs]

I created two list stles that only had a ul style in css and only had ul style in tags. No paragraphs. one was red one was green both I put indents on. The color of the font translated into Word but the indents did not, neither did the disc of the bullet, and again, as it maps to Normal style in Word I have no way of differentiating the "list style" I want in Word.

It's not abour whether "local" formatting is carried over, it is about whether the named style carries over. 

Thanks for all your help many of the issues are sorted. I'll have to play around with it more later because I now need to move to creating a HTML 5 output for a totally new project so starting from scratch and don't need to output that to Word and can build it with correct list styles from the off 😄 I have ready quite a bit of your guides and they are excellent thanks! I may be back with questions about skins etc but I'll finish reading and watching tutorials first.

[Peter Grainge]

In RoboHelp I created three list styles, red, green and blue.

With no master page or Word template, that came into Word as below.

No mapping involved. Anything like this is best done in a test project so that you are using a basic CSS that doesn't have anything to override what you are trying to achieve.

________________________________________________________

My site www.grainge.org includes many free Authoring and RoboHelp resources that may be of help.